Rogue Class Concept - WoD

[Coldkil]

I'm not seeing why this adds depth without a bit of a tweak... with a bit of a tweak- say, it stacks to 100, and using it consumes 30 for the boost- then that I definitely buy. I think you'd not want it to boost slice and dice, because you would assuredly have to use it for that (otherwise, why have it boost slice and dice?), but it would be cool to be able to boost an eviscerate to devastating quality, and do it a few times in a row with build up.

Not quoting the entire post because too long, but i basically agree with everything you say. The biggest problem is actually not with BG but (as you point out) with RB - it's too strong, brainless to take advantage off and combat damage is completely balanced around the increased cd usage.

Given this, i always tend to put me in Blizz shoes and ask myself "how the ability can be rewoked without breaking other mechanics?" And my idea (while being very raw) is basically a way to control BG stacks and have a meaningful way to use them without interfering with RB; i'm pretty sure we won't see RB going away at any time, so changing BG sounded the better idea.

Your iteration of my concept is surely better and i like it a lot - never pretended for my idea to be final - but the core idea (though very simple) is still there; as for SnD and Rupture, my idea was that on a sustained damage environment, you would be using the boost for them, and when burst is needed you would use the on Evis. Anyway, removing SnD from it sounds even better so you have a clear choice between 2 finishers. How does this sound?

EDIT:

Since you won't be able to reforge, you face the very real possibility of a piece with readiness on it making a shockingly large difference between the dps you are balanced around and Fischer-Price My First Deeps.

aaaand you got me with this. CDs shouldn't be affected by anything and damage balances around this - RB does exactly the opposite, and for this it feels so much powerful (blasting a lot of cooldowns is simply fun for everyone, it's what makes you feel "now i'm blasting this boss away in the space").

Why i don't like BG? Because it fails to serve any actual purpose atm. Maybe it's not its fault (read: it isn't), but the best way of intervention is to change BG since RB is so deeply tied to the spec that any change is more likely to result in a broken spec than in an improvement.

[Deleted]

Rogues have always been the class that gets nerfed start of xpansion and buffed up late xpansion. Some of our mechanics are kinda ancient. In normal mode its allright imo because it doesn't demand that much complex strategy anyway... but now that I'm doing heroic modes, there is a ridiculous amount of target swapping, AoE fights etc, where our mechanics feel outdated compared to lets say a Hunter or Warlock. Although I admit this is also sometimes an issue of being melee class. I remember in WotLK melees had advantages compared to ranged, now its other way around.
It just feels ancient, like combo points not stacking on the rogue, and the bandaid fix of redirect feels awkward as a standalone ability.
But I don't think we will get an overhaul in the same way Hunters and Warlocks have gotten. If we ever get one, it will be minor changes probably.

Some things I kinda miss from old times, such as when Blade Flurry was on cooldown. With the way it is now, its really boring imo. Ugh, theres so many things that have been bothering me about the class in the back of my head, I cba to make a list of it. But still for some reason I continue to play my rogue the most, despite pulling better perfomance on my hunter and warlock.

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest, i never liked bandit's guile. As said multiple times, the idea of building up resources to spend during the Red phase for maximum output simply pales and disappears in front of Relentless Blades which basically says "hey, blast off you CDs even more as soon they're available".

I'd rework that into a simpler and imho more appealing mechanic - bandit's guile becomes a stacking buff that once reached maximum level can be activated to make a finisher more powerful; example: 100 maximum stacks accumulating through any attacks, once reached 100 you can press the BG button (or can be automatically activated on next finihser, but i prefer to have direct control) and do a bigger Eviscerate or a 1.5x speed SnD. This way, Relentless blades won't work against BG but actually in synergy with it (faster stacking and more usage).

Just another "my two cents" post.

Very much agree, Restless Blade mechanic currently contradicts Bandit's Guile. But even if it didn't, Bandit's Guile needs reworked for reason of its own.

[catablitz]

I just realized that it is really imperative that BG gets reworked to a state that does not synergise with anticipation. Reason (besides those mentioned already) is the lvl100 talent master the basics. It will be extremely difficult if even achievable to be able to store 3-4 anticipation points for spending on higher BG level when your 0.9 speed offhand can put you on cap and waste CPs. Even with a swing timer addon.

I swear that I remember a blue post saying that devs never intended for BG to be micromanaged like it is now, but rather to be a passive ability. In that direction and on contrary to what happens today, BG must give something else besides flat % damage (assuming we keep anticipation). The catch is that the spec must maintain a flat % modifier for scale reasons (because everybody knows that the best scaling specs are those that have flat % modifiers when everything else is balanced )

So,
Option 1: BG is a flat 20% like assassination.
Option 2: BG boosts your next move by x% for 4 ability cycle.
Option 3: BG boosts a stat instead of flat % damage.
Option 4: Your finishing moves enable the use of BG for X secs per CP. During BG your attacks cost no energy.
Option 5. Your SS crits (or hits) give you a BG charge. After X charges, your SS strikes with both hands.
Option 6: Every finisher boosts the damage/duration of the next finisher
Option 7: Your SS ( or attacks) have a X% chance to put you in BG state. In that state your finishers require no CPs to be used.

To be honest, there is a ton of things to do if they have the intention to. Others are boring but solve the issues while others are more interesting. Thing is that Combat spec has the worst way to get their % dps modifier compared to rest specs and this has to change for WOD.

[Verain]

I just realized that it is really imperative that BG gets reworked to a state that does not synergise with anticipation. Reason (besides those mentioned already) is the lvl100 talent master the basics.

I normally say stuff like "it's too early to call with wod". But in this case I'll be blunt: that talent, there is no way it will go live like that. Simply no fucking way at all, ever. It's ludicrous. You've already figured out that it will force you into using a fast offhand, but I'm not entirely certain it wouldn't force you into using a fast mainhand. It would make crits far too valuable, and it would effect each spec to a wildly different degree. It's also not deep, and essentially grants HAT to all specs, which is not at all good or ok.

Not a fucking chance. Not a snowball's chance on Satan's fiery anus.


If this thing went live like this, BG and anti having synergy would be the last of our concerns.


I'm not trying to be a jerk- there's just no way that the few hints they've dropped will be indicative of what they will actually do. And, there will be medium class changes still to be announced.

It will be extremely difficult if even achievable to be able to store 3-4 anticipation points for spending on higher BG level when your 0.9 speed offhand can put you on cap and waste CPs. Even with a swing timer addon.

Even if this were true, it wouldn't matter. You'd still have the synergy, just not be able to capitalize. The thing is, if a move that disruptive goes live, there's no way the specs will be anything close to each other. Assassination sounds like it would be the top- just spam envenom a ton. But it won't go live like that.

[Vokz]

It has been stated that they are addressing button bloat in Warlords of Draenor.
What Rogue abilities would you hate see go?

Personally for me it would be Vanish, Cloak of Shadows, Evasion and Dismantle.
I feel like these are all Perfect Rogue Abilities and would ruin what a Rogue has for defensives if they went away.
I don't care what they do with finishers/CP abilities, but I would hate to see Killing Spree and Mutilate go.

What would you want added or changed?

I think Combat Readiness should be a base ability for Combat and we should have increased parry to be more of a toe to toe swashbuckler as the specialization states we are. I think combat should be the most "tanky" of the specs without actually being a tank. Maybe just a little more survivability. Maybe as in reduced CD on Evasion and Combat Readiness. Might be a little too OP though considering we would constantly be taking less damage.

I think Sub should have some way to get a quicker Vanish/Shadow dance. Then we can be the sneaky trickster that it states we are. Also have damage focuse more on Rupture/Hemo/Garrote instead of Find Weakness Ambushes/Backstabs/Eviscerates.

I think Assassination should have the highest single target damage of the specs since it is supposed to "quickly" dispatch its foes. Instead of Assassination focusing on Rupture uptime and Deadly Poison, make it focus more on envenom/mutilate/dispatch procs.

Or reverse, making Sub focus on burst and burst only (no more sanguinary veins....) and Assassination being more for Bleeds.

Merged because it's the same discussion. -Kael

Thanks Kael.