Thread: Ukraine

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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoranon View Post
    Yes because it was until 45 controlled by Czechs, right?
    No, by Germans. That doesn't matter at all though.

    The point is, that almost every single place on this planet had more than one, usually more than two, often many different nations living in it through the ages. 70 years is a lot. These events are long past. The current residents are what, the 5th generation? Would you make them leave because "this place used to be Romanian ages ago!" ? That argument just doesn't work. Yes, it isn't fair when people get kicked from their homes. But 5th generation descendants of the original kicked ones, kicking out the 5th generation descendants of the former kickers, is not a solution, it just creates more problems.

    That's why Transdnistria doesn't belong to Russia. Nor does Kaliningrad belong to Poles / Germans / Czechs / whatever and the US doesn't belong to the Native Americans. Get over it. History happened.

    I hope that one day, a generation of people will decide to be the better one, and just let old griefs go. But that will probably never happen, because of people like you. Because of the fact that for example, more than 50% of the Czech Republic still hates Germans for WW2, and believes that they are on some crusade to remove us from the face of this planet.

  2. #222
    Scarab Lord Zoranon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    No, by Germans. That doesn't matter at all though.

    The point is, that almost every single place on this planet had more than one, usually more than two, often many different nations living in it through the ages. 70 years is a lot. These events are long past. The current residents are what, the 5th generation? Would you make them leave because "this place used to be Romanian ages ago!" ? That argument just doesn't work. Yes, it isn't fair when people get kicked from their homes. But 5th generation descendants of the original kicked ones, kicking out the 5th generation descendants of the former kickers, is not a solution, it just creates more problems.

    That's why Transdnistria doesn't belong to Russia. Nor does Kaliningrad belong to Poles / Germans / Czechs / whatever and the US doesn't belong to the Native Americans. Get over it. History happened.

    I hope that one day, a generation of people will decide to be the better one, and just let old griefs go. But that will probably never happen, because of people like you. Because of the fact that for example, more than 50% of the Czech Republic still hates Germans for WW2, and believes that they are on some crusade to remove us from the face of this planet.
    Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. Conditions may change, but human nature does not.

    Ah and more baseless assumptions, I am always glad when someone on internet attempts to lump me to some category. Do you know what the root word of assumption is?
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Don't see what's wrong with fighting alongside Nazi Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    someone who disagrees with me is simply wrong.

  3. #223
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    No, by Germans. That doesn't matter at all though.

    The point is, that almost every single place on this planet had more than one, usually more than two, often many different nations living in it through the ages. 70 years is a lot. These events are long past. The current residents are what, the 5th generation? Would you make them leave because "this place used to be Romanian ages ago!" ? That argument just doesn't work. Yes, it isn't fair when people get kicked from their homes. But 5th generation descendants of the original kicked ones, kicking out the 5th generation descendants of the former kickers, is not a solution, it just creates more problems.

    That's why Transdnistria doesn't belong to Russia. Nor does Kaliningrad belong to Poles / Germans / Czechs / whatever and the US doesn't belong to the Native Americans. Get over it. History happened.

    I hope that one day, a generation of people will decide to be the better one, and just let old griefs go. But that will probably never happen, because of people like you. Because of the fact that for example, more than 50% of the Czech Republic still hates Germans for WW2, and believes that they are on some crusade to remove us from the face of this planet.

    I think you are confusing moldavia with trans-dniester, they are two separate countries. Trans-dniester is slavic, there is a moldavian population there but they are ca 30% of the population or something, hardly a reason to attach it to Moldavia, that would be ignoring the other 70% of the population.

  4. #224
    http://vgolos.com.ua/news/u_frankivs...eo_131913.html



    The police apologizes to protesters after the protesters took over a governmental building. It seems even they don't want more bloodshed.



    From the article: The protesters made a path so the Berkut and the Militians can leave the building and the riot police explained that they are just doing their work. The protesters pledged not to destroy the public property.
    Last edited by Cybran; 2014-01-25 at 07:41 PM.

  5. #225
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    http://vgolos.com.ua/news/u_frankivs...eo_131913.html

    http://vgolos.com.ua/media/gallery/f..._4644492_o.jpg

    The police apologizes to protesters after the protesters take a governmental building. It seems even they don't want more bloodshed.\

    http://vgolos.com.ua/media/gallery/f...07945833_o.jpg

    From the article: The protesters made a path so the Berkut and the Militians can leave the building and the riot police explained that they are just doing their work.
    You mean they made him "apologize" because otherwise they would beat him to death? Seems they wanted those pictures as propaganda to make it look like it was somehow wrong for police to defend democratic institutions n building from rioters? Btw one police officer has been killed, another has been kidnapped, probably dead by now. So, these violent mobs is the opposition ok with? What kind of government would they have? Eh? Do you want them in the EU now? Lol? Goddamn savages...

    Here's how these "peaceful protesters" are... more "kremlin propaganda"
    Last edited by mmocced9c7d33d; 2014-01-25 at 07:43 PM.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Summerdrake View Post
    So, these violent mobs is the opposition ok with? What kind of government would they have? Eh? Do you want them in the EU now?
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...pposition.html

    Yanukovych is ready to name opposition leaders to the top cabinet jobs, Interior Minister Olena Lukash said in a statement on the president’s website today. Arseniy Yatsenyuk was offered the premiership and Vitali Klitschko the post of deputy prime minister, she said. They agreed to wind down protests and the government to draw back police from the streets, Lukash said.

    Yanukovych offered the biggest concessions yet as he’s struggling to stem rallies that against his November snub of a European Union cooperation deal, with police crackdowns fanning people’s anger. Four days of clashes left as many as six dead and 1,250 injured as laws to stem the protests took effect and police got special powers to quell the demonstrations. Yatsenyuk and Klitschko will address the crowd in central Kiev at 10:30 p.m., according to Yatsenyuk’s press office.
    Looks like the current president is willing to let them govern with him. So they can't be that bad, huh?

    I think that if they accept his offer they will discredit themselves which is what he wants. They should force him to resign, but that could mean more casualties. In any case there is genuine desire to clean out the country from the criminal rings working behind the scenes which is great.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoranon View Post
    Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. Conditions may change, but human nature does not.

    Ah and more baseless assumptions, I am always glad when someone on internet attempts to lump me to some category. Do you know what the root word of assumption is?
    So you propose to repeat history. I say it's wrong to repeat history. And your reply is "Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it". Really?

    I don't lump you into any "categories", you lump yourself.

    This is going nowhere, forget this discussion, we disagree, let's leave it at that.

  8. #228
    Deleted
    Don't be retarded, he obviously doesn't consider Svoboda Nazis, those are the ones that always cause brawls in parliament, and it's them that are on the front lines right now showing their true fascist colors, they are armed savages. It's the other parts of the opposition who would be helpless without Svoboda, they have rode the wave of their violence hoping to get something out of it and then dump Svoboda as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

    How exactly would the opposition discredit themselves by accepting? It's a victory for them, Yanukovich has discredited himself by ignoring the country's laws. Let criminals run rampant, he should send in the army, something EVERY country in the west would have done in similar circumstances. As for "criminal rings" lol? People who try violent overthrow shouldn't point fingers, why don't they gather for the next election hmmm? Probably because they know they would loose, again, people don't want a repeat of previous president that cut relations with Russia, Ukraine's biggest trading partner, that guy sank the economy. If you can't offer a better deal than trading with Russia, people will not want you in power, at the end of the day it's about peoples wallets, "it's the economy, stupid!". This is why there's riots, they know they can't win on their own so they try black mail by using violence, and damn that Yanukovich, he should be in jail by his own people for failing his duties! He should be replaced by someone who don't give in to blackmail. You think this is over? Wait until 2015. Opposition will loose and they will rampage again but this time authorities will be better prepared.

    Do you propose every country should have violent riots because of corruption? Do you? I'm certain you would feel right at home in 1917 Russia or being a KGB officer catching "criminals"

    Why do I even bother with such fools like you, I read your mail to me, where you are from, obviously you are seeing things through the prism of ur country's situation and try to apply it elsewhere, disregarding ethnic divisions like in ukraine don't apply in your home country.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Summerdrake View Post
    Do you propose every country should have violent riots because of corruption? Do you? I'm certain you would feel right at home in 1917 Russia or being a KGB officer catching "criminals"
    I don't think I would make a good KGB agent. I have a problem with authority.

    And why should there be revolutions against criminal oligarchs? If Russia was able to offer the same incentives for reforms, acountability and transperancy there would be no problem with me. However turning to Russia in it's current form is a mistake. The ruling elite in Kremlin will only lead to stagnation and more problems in the future.

    http://www.economist.com/news/europe...und-march-kiev

    Many are wary of the encroaching influence of Mr Yanukovych’s son and his friends in big business. Those oligarchs who wanted closer European integration did so not for access to its markets but as a protection against the Yanukovych family’s shameless rapaciousness. For much of the past two months television coverage has been overtly on the side of the protesters, at the very least refusing to block pictures from the Maidan as Mr Yanukovych’s administration demanded. The scenes of violence could also taint the reputation and business interests of Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine’s richest man and Mr Yanukovych’s main backer.
    Sure, some of the protesters intentions are far from admirable, but do you really want Eastern Ukraine to become like Belarus?

  10. #230
    The Insane Kellhound's Avatar
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    Russia should leave the rest of the Slavs alone....

  11. #231
    Deleted
    Livestream of EuroMajdan: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/euromajdan/pop-out

    Also look how Ukraine streets look during the night: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=69f_1390656405

    I can't even imagine the smell on the streets.
    Last edited by mmocfee4aa7b34; 2014-01-25 at 10:37 PM.

  12. #232
    Too much shit in this thread... I love when guys from US are calling these people terrorist and animals..I love people who have no idea are somehow judging ukraine government or people..or police..I love how people are linking many "sources"..while most of them are just lies lies lies all over the place..

    People here have no idea why for what these people out there are fighting for.. you really think it's about EU, USA, Russia..whatever?? oh no guys..you have god damn no idea...don't speculate..ask people directly from ukraine ..it's not that hard..

  13. #233
    We know that you are fighting for the Ukraine without Jews, Russians, Poles or communists. Whom are you trying to kid?

  14. #234
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Caligulove View Post
    Isnt that channel run by homophobe Kiseliev? Yes it is!
    It was also one of the few websites in 2008 who was telling a story that the EU's investigation confirmed in 2009 — Georgia was to blame for the war, not Russia. What, you think the Western media covers things objectively, doesn't have bias, and only has facts that they confirmed themselves?

    Bullshit. I could write essay about what happened during August,2008 but here is TLDR version of it:
    You can read to whatever bullshit you want, son. Google the report done by EU in 2009:

    EU Report: Independent Experts Blame Georgia for South Ossetia War

    EU Independent Fact Finding Mission Report
    The Report stated that conflict started "with a massive Georgian artillery attack... against the town of Tskhinvali and the surrounding areas, launched in the night of 7 to 8 August 2008"

    Furthermore, at that time, Georgia had various US military experts in their country. I doubt Georgia would "poke Russia" without the approval or consultations of these experts.


    It is imperialistic and chauvinistic. Just a few days ago Lavrov declared an intention to open up schools in Baltic countries where theyd teach kids by russian programme.Without even consulting with our ministers of education etc. .
    Those "kids" are native Russian-speakers, you Mormon. 25 million Russians ended up in a foreign territory after the collapse of the USSR. Half of Latvia's capital population are native Russian-speakers. There are plans to close all the Russian schools there and force the Latvinization of this significant number of Russians. Russians there are regarded as second-class citizens. They pay taxes, but they can't even vote for a president. Even during the USSR, there were schools of the native language of the republics they were in, and Russian schools in these republics taught the native language.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No,Russia is cutting itself off from the rest of the world.With its peculiar,paranoid fixation on West,the recent ''anti-spy'' law and factual LGBT ban.Oh forgot the most important part-ban to critize religion(which will always ''offend'' the feelings of religious people).
    I watch both BBC,Fox and NDR and the last thing they care about is Russia-it doesnt compare itself to it, it has no interest to piss it off.They focus on their own problems which russian media really dont-they rather deflect focus on outsie while ignore their own problems in economy etc. .
    What anti-spy law? The foreign agent law that the US has since 1938? You think nobody in the West is interested in seeing a regime change in Russia? They want someone that they could work with, like the drunkard Yeltsin, who sold the state properties for pennies to the current oligarchs, who sold the complete Soyuz designs, training, everything to the Chinese, and the RD-171 engine design (that was developed for Energia-Buran project) used by Atlas V rocket to the US. You think the West weren't funding these various individuals and organizations to spread whatever propaganda they wanted? You think it's just the people who organized these various colorful revolutions in Georgia, Ukraine, etc. without any external help or funding?

    and factual LGBT
    And the law is "anti-gay propaganda in front of minors." Maximum penalty for which is 150$. It's not a ban on homosexuality. There are gay clubs in Moscow.

    I watch both BBC,Fox and NDR and the last thing they care about is Russia
    That's why you're ignorant as f. Being a russophobe, you only view one side of the story, and you don't care about facts as long as they are not in Russia's favor.
    Last edited by mmoc02ec3d20e3; 2014-01-26 at 11:22 AM.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhisis View Post
    We know that you are fighting for the Ukraine without Jews, Russians, Poles or communists. Whom are you trying to kid?
    your thinking is so skewed..

    These people don't care about EU as much as they don't care about Russians or Jews.. they can give a shit about this stuff.. sadly, media are presenting whole situation as pro EU or anti russia...they just need change..and quickly..situation like this is in many other countries where people's patience is slowly fading out..

    But of course..there is a agenda..what is presented by media..and of course what can USA/EU achieve with this..whatever will hurt Russia is good in their book..but same works vice-versa... Russia has it's own twisted agenda in the east of the Ukraine (that's why you see all riots only in west parts).. people are just fed up with the whole situation in their country.. but these big players..EU/USA/Russia can't wait to eat whatever will be left .. it's so sad it's not even funny..

  16. #236
    Pandaren Monk Mnevis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mavett View Post
    on another note, the protest has an MMO twist to it as well

    It was a upcoming trend - we started wearing ski helmets few days ago. +1 for defence. Hmm.
    http://boingboing.net/2013/12/23/eur...k-revolut.html

    (first-hand account of beginning of euromaidan; good read)

  17. #237

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Summerdrake View Post
    i feel for those police. out manned with their backs to the wall.

  19. #239
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    It's a large group, albeit a minority in terms of the entirety of the Ukranian population, set to violently attack government officials even before the Ukrainian government started being aggressive because they didn't get what they wanted. And then running crying to the cameras when they get their noses bloodied as a result. People can argue all they want about how those evil politicians are rejecting the holy glory and perfection of the EU for their old soviet buddies... but it's very clear and evident which side is following the democratic process and which side is throwing a tantrum with guns, explosives, and violent actions to get their way.
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-01-26 at 05:51 PM.

  20. #240
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caligulove View Post
    Got another interesting detail from her: Kiev policemen arent allowed to take part in these events.Most of them are sent in from Eastern parts (pro-Russia) of Ukraine.
    That's.. standard protocol for any politically sensitive situation. You don't send policemen who are sympathetic with rioters to hold back rioters.

    Cops should NOT have been sent in.All this major BS started only when they launched a plan to clear Euromaidan and Khrestchatik(the main street where they camped).It simply backfired.
    So policemen aren't allowed to be policemen now?

    And all of this could have been avoided by a mob of people following the same standards of government that they supposedly aspire to.

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