Thread: Ukraine

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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Putin got elected by promising EU integration.
    Haha, funniest thing I read in a while.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Leobald View Post
    Haha, funniest thing I read in a while.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored...relations.html

    “Putin-1” (of the first term, 2000-2004) with his strongly pro-western agenda: from close co-operation and prospects for European integration to concessions to the United States (the closure of military bases in Cuba and Vietnam, position on Central Asia, and so on) and advances to Tokyo on settling the Kuril Islands dispute.
    The result, however, was disappointing. Who should be held responsible for those failures is a question open to debate. In retrospect, one can hardly blame Vladimir Putin for not trying to bring Russia into the western orbit during his first term. The lack of the desired result helped rebrand Putin-2 as the author of the anti-American speech in Munich.
    During his first term Putin seemed willing to cooperate with Europe and the US.

    The foreign policy message of Putin’s second term was: “So you don’t want to treat us like equals? Then I’ll make you…” And he did.
    Europe and the US pushed Russia away and they have themselves to blame. Once the price of oil went up Russia didn't need them any more.

  3. #403
    What i seem to see here is mainly a focus on the demonstrators and nothing on the issues at stake. How is it
    possible to form an opinion of who are the 'good' guys without a discussion of the issues. My understanding is
    that this whole disruption is based on US interest to divide Russia and to move NATO forces closer to that country.
    Several million dollars from the US and US interests have sparked this alleged uprising. I have no doubt that many
    participants are sincere in their protests but how they see the issues will be as affected by the media and the
    the propaganda supported by the behind the scenes Western money. From where I sit, the govt was democratically
    elected. One side won, the other did not. Next election, the political sides will once again argue their issues and vote.
    Well maybe not with the new neo-Nazi regime taking over.

  4. #404
    Pandaren Monk Sainur's Avatar
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    So how many of those violent protesters/rioters are out there? Less than half of a percent of the entire Ukrainian population. That's right. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of those thugs don't even know what they are actually fighting for.

    I support neither sides. But go ahead rioters, keep throwing stones and fire bombs at the police. I'm sure you'll achieve something.
    "The sword is mightier than the pen, and considerably easier to kill with."

  5. #405
    Elemental Lord Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sainur View Post
    I support neither sides. But go ahead rioters, keep throwing stones and fire bombs at the police. I'm sure you'll achieve something.
    You don't watch a lot of news do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Daneman View Post
    Says someone who named himself tomatketchup. There's gotta be something wrong with someone who name themselves that.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    During his first term Putin seemed willing to cooperate with Europe and the US.
    And then the Orange Revolution happened, and Putin took it personally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Europe and the US pushed Russia away and they have themselves to blame. Once the price of oil went up Russia didn't need them any more.
    Not really. Oilwas high briefly, then fell precipitously. The Russian budget requires a $115 per barrel price for break even. Oil has been hanging between $90 and $105 for the past year.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...A010GA20140102

    Russia is preparing for $80 per barrel prices from 2016-2030 and is cutting its budget accordingly, due to the US becoming the world's largest oil producer in 2015. It's already it's top overall energy producer.

    http://rt.com/business/russia-budget-putin-oil-207/
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...-iea-says.html

    More anti-Western truthiness from self-hating Westerner Cybran. Wonders never cease.

    Russia's foreign policy shift was in response to the US/EU not respecting Russia's sphere of influence in central asia, most especially via the color revolutions. They see it as another in a long line of Western double crosses, going back to the "pledge" to not expand NATO made in the 1990s. Honestly, the're probably right. They shouldn't trust us on these issues in the slightest. That doesn't make them wrong to do though.

    It was able to operate that foreign policy due to oil prices. Now? Energy prices are expected to free fall due to America, Canada and Poland flooding the world with cheap oil and natural gas. And therein lies the problem. As I said paraphrased thrice now: look around your room. Name three things in it sourced from Europe (you can probably do Germany alone on that), three things sourced from China, three things sourced from Japan, and three things sourced from the United States. Now do the same for Russia. Good luck.

    And therein lies the problem, and why Russia is facing a recession.
    http://rt.com/business/russia-ruble-...recession-871/
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ecession-.html
    http://www.worldreview.info/content/...eads-recession

    And who is to blame for this? I'll quote the last article.

    The Moscow-based Renaissance Capital brokerage has speculated that the Russian economy may not be able to grow faster than two per cent per year over the coming decade, and that as national debt piles up Russia might become another Greece.

    Mr Putin has now acknowledged that cuts in the budget will be necessary. The figures being discussed are 1.6 trillion rubles, or about five per cent of total expenditure from 2013 to 2016.

    The irony is that it is Mr Putin himself who shifted the country towards its dependence on the price of oil.
    And that is why, Russia is screwed.
    Recently under FBI investigation:

    [ ] Hillary Clinton [ ] Bernie Sanders [x] Vladimir Putin [X] Donald Trump

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Not really. Oilwas high briefly, then fell precipitously. The Russian budget requires a $115 per barrel price for break even. Oil has been hanging between $90 and $105 for the past year.
    We can run deficit for quite a while though... we got virtually no debt, extremely positive trade balance (west just doesn't sell us enough things to use all our oil profits... like that Opel buyout that fell through ), and if we would decide to issue more bonds i'm sure we'd find buyers.

    It's just that our current government is debt-averse... and for good reasons. They are still waiting for next wave of economic crisis to hit us.

    Russia is preparing for $80 per barrel prices from 2016-2030 and is cutting its budget accordingly, due to the US becoming the world's largest oil producer in 2015. It's already it's top overall energy producer.
    Well, we prepared for that before too, right after crisis... but oil foiled our plans and remained high that year after dropping early... and next year too. It's still high to this day

    We got our propaganda machines working on discrediting oil/gas boom too to keep oil high! You know, environmental impact, extremely fast well depletion compared to traditional deposits, logistical problems, EROI (and ROI too) that only allows them to be profitable with government subsidies...

    And in case it all fails, we got shale deposits of our own, as well as tech to use them! In places where no people live, so environmental impact wouldn't be that noticeable too! ...we just have enough better deposits to last us decades before we start tapping them.

    And who is to blame for this? I'll quote the last article.
    If you'd ask Russians many would blame WTO membership! Also Putin's fault though!

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    Energy prices are expected to free fall due to America, Canada and Poland flooding the world with cheap oil and natural gas.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/bu...ions.html?_r=0

    Eni has allowed two of its three shale gas exploration licenses in Poland to expire and is likely to allow the third to lapse, according to a person with knowledge of the matter who spoke only on the condition of anonymity. The acreage, acquired in 2010, had not produced enough gas to be commercially viable, the person said.

    Other companies have made similar comments about their initial drilling efforts. Exxon Mobil ended its Polish shale gas exploration efforts in 2012; Marathon Oil said it was leaving last year. Chevron is one of the few major players still interested in Poland.

    “The geology has not worked out,” said Paul Stevens, an oil analyst at Chatham House, a research institute based in London.
    The US is free to poison it's land with fracking chemicals, but Poland dodged a bullet. Europe and China will need Russian gas in the foreseeable future. The question is what will the US do when the Yuan and Euro take over the role of reserve currency?

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