WoD will have 5 new 2 rehash dungeons, BC had 15 new dungeons. You do the math.

[ringpriest]

What did people do in a dungeon in Vanilla? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.

Formed group; traveled to dungeon; got past the non-instanced part of the dungeon; complicated pulls in challenging and potentially deadly environments; looted chests; watched for random patrols including stealthed or invisible mobs; completed quests; gathered rare resources; accomplished objectives and solved puzzles; navigated complex dungeons environments while regularly skipping patrols, bosses, or even whole sections depending on the mutually agreed upon goals of the run; defeated bosses; collected loot; hearthed or portaled out.

What did people do in a dungeon in BC? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.

Formed group; traveled or got summoned to dungeon; complicated pulls; looted chests; watched for patrols that could sometimes include stealthed mobs; completed quests; gained rep based on the dungeon; sometimes accomplished additional objectives and solved minor puzzles; frequently skipped pulls and occasionally bosses; defeated bosses; collected loot; hearthed, portaled or sometimes took the conveniently provided exit out.

What did people do in a dungeon in WoTLK? Learn the boss mechanic and kll him.

Queued or formed a group; often ported straight to the dungeon; AoE'd everything; slapped on a tabard to gain rep; sometimes did achievements; often skipped pulls when possible and occasionally bosses; did the quest (if any); defeated bosses; collected loot; hearthed, portaled, ported or took the conveniently provided exit out; did it again in the same or a different dungeon because it went so fast.

[Chickat]

For me it would be nice to have some non raiding things to do for a while. If heroic dungeons will take anywhere from 45-60 minutes, you can do 2 on an evening and more if you have time on your hands. I can't really afford to spend 4/5 hours online in a row any more, but still would like to feel I accomplish something when I play WoW (also outside or raiding).

To be honest I think this is a good idea. Have dungeons be 30-60 minute semi difficult experiences that reward lfr quality gear, and can be done instead of lfr. Make scenarios and normal level 100 dungeons the content you do to gear for lfr/heroic dungeons/heroic scenarios.

[Tyraena]

So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

Thoughts?

Technically, most of the BC dungeon "experience" was rehashed. Each dungeon typically shared location/tileset with at least 2 others, and most of the boss fights were rehashed mechanics from previous raid encounters that non-raiders never got to see. It was their way of letting non-raiding players experience what was a challenge at the time.

[Deleted]

Mop dungeons were only tank and spec because of the tuning. The mechanics were there, its just that you could ignore 90% of them. MoP dungeons at least when it comes to mechanics and bosses are superior to tbc if they were tuned to be more difficult. TBC dungeons had almost no mechanics. They just hit hard.

I agree they had potential. But dungeons with mechanics that you can ignore are worst then dungeons without so many mechanics.

[Deleted]

Same art assets, right. There is such a variety of enemies in Siege of Niuzao Temple. Mantid, mantid, mantid... vizier, mantid... guy with a sword, mantid mantid mantid, oh right, there was a blob at start. Mantid Commander.

Art assets are more than just enemies.

[Chickat]

They will if Blizzard think of more rewards. Valor and Rep is a start.

Me? I do them just for fun. I love raiding ToT and SoO Flex too but 5 mans are still awesome. The problem is that they are way too easy at heroic level.

What I propose: Start off the expansion with difficulty like Cata/TBC. (HC mode)
BUT Keep increasing the difficulty as the expansion goes on to keep it hard AND increase the rewards to LFR levels or something.

M

Yes. But leave the normal level 100 dungeons alone so players can take that path and gear up through the past lfrs if they want.

[Tyraena]

Why would anyone care about dungeons? They became crap in WOTLK, had a brief good moment at the start of Cata and atm they are in their worst state.
Also, I would rather have 15 TBC dungeons then what we have now.

No. The difference between Wrath dungeons (at the end, not at launch) and MOP dungeons is that MOP dungeons can (and still frequently do) stop/kill people for not paying attention or knowing how to play. Wrath dungeons, even for newly achieved lvl 80 characters, provided zero threat of failure or challenge at any point.

[Chickat]

Some people just never stop complaining. Stop comparing like for like.

WoD will new character models with new animations.

WoD will have Garrision, a possibly new game play element.

There has not been a lack of content. There has a change in type of contents. It seems to me that they are focusing on giving players new things to do rather than just dungeons and raids all the time. To me that is a good thing.

What did people do in a dungeon in Vanilla? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.

What did people do in a dungeon in BC? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.

What did people do in a dungeon in WoTLK? Learn the boss mechanic and kll him.

Dungeon run is just learning the mechanic. Otherwise, it is just the same type of gameplay, Just different looking boss and dungeon. At least Blizzard now is adding something to the game.

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Wow. That is going to be interesting for certain party makeups. From what I remember of VP.

They are adding back in level 100 normal modes for the players who find heroics to hard. So difficulty wont be an issue.

[Deleted]

No. The difference between Wrath dungeons (at the end, not at launch) and MOP dungeons is that MOP dungeons can (and still frequently do) stop/kill people for not paying attention or knowing how to play. Wrath dungeons, even for newly achieved lvl 80 characters, provided zero threat of failure or challenge at any point.

I must say I never wiped in MoP dungeons (not counting challenge mode).

[edmorte]

WoD looks sharp man, TBC was like Terminator 2, you cannot repeat it! Deal with it.

[DeadmanWalking]

I agree they had potential. But dungeons with mechanics that you can ignore are worst then dungeons without so many mechanics.

They were not ignorable at the start of the expansion but as we powered up they became more ignorable. Thats the nature of becoming more powerful and happened in every single expansion. Now you can ignore the adds and just run to every boss and fights last 23 seconds. Let's be realistic and look at the chronological timeline more accurately. We have 120-130 ilevels on those mop dungeons.

[Chickat]

All the Auchidon dungeons used the same assets, all the Hellfire ones used the same assets. Magisters used the same assets as the raid. So thats 11 UNIQUE dungeons.

now to make this even better for OP, who keeps remaking this thread for some reason, They said we will be getting other dungeons, I believe the number was 2, per patch this expansion. So we have 8 + at least 3, if they keep there word on 2 per patch we can expect 6 more. Meaning Warlords will have 11 to 14 Unique Dungeons. That is already as good if not better than BC.

I think they meant 2 new dungeons per raid patch. So that would be 8 + 2 + 2 = 12 which is fine imo.

[Deleted]

They were not ignorable at the start of the expansion but as we powered up they became more ignorable. Thats the nature of becoming more powerful and happened in every single expansion. Now you can ignore the adds and just run to every boss and fights last 23 seconds. Let's be realistic and look at the chronological timeline more accurately. We have 120-130 ilevels on those mop dungeons.

Hm, I remember that first boss in Siege of Niuzao temple had some blobs coming to him. Not once I saw people were killing them but I am pretty sure they had to have some purpose. That abomination called Stormstout brewery was always zerg rush. First boss, move out of his attack (tank PoV). That's about it. Second boss - move away from his "swirl". Third encounter, hm, jumping?
They were never hard, never required CC - it was always tank and spank. Only thing that's different now is that you can tank and spank thrash to boss. Before you did it with stopping once or twice.

[Deleted]

Another huge problem with the modern dungeon is their use within the context of daily valor point gain. This tends towards the design of a long hallway that can be completed in 15 minutes for maximum valor per minute.

Wailing Caverns, Lower Blackrock Spire, and Dire Maul were not designed to be run over and over and over. If you wanted to do one of those, you needed to set aside at least an hour, and exploring the place was half of the reward. You certainly ended up going to these places multiple times, but not because you were desperately looking for a specific item. You went back because the place was large and difficult and your first attempt resulted in a key that let you skip the first half of the dungeon.

[ringpriest]

No. The difference between Wrath dungeons (at the end, not at launch) and MOP dungeons is that MOP dungeons can (and still frequently do) stop/kill people for not paying attention or knowing how to play. Wrath dungeons, even for newly achieved lvl 80 characters, provided zero threat of failure or challenge at any point.

I don't remember a single wipe in an MoP dungeon. I never even bothered to read the dungeon guides or wowpedia before running them. (Didn't run challenge modes.) There were plenty of wipes in the ICC 5-mans, even at endgame; more often from trash than bosses though. The other wrath 5mans... <thinks back> the only places I can ever remember wipes after the general playerbase outgeared everything was the inital pull in Azjol-Nerub, and sometimes in Occulus.

[DeadmanWalking]

Hm, I remember that first boss in Siege of Niuzao temple had some blobs coming to him. Not once I saw people were killing them but I am pretty sure they had to have some purpose. That abomination called Stormstout brewery was always zerg rush. First boss, move out of his attack (tank PoV). That's about it. Second boss - move away from his "swirl". Third encounter, hm, jumping?
They were never hard, never required CC - it was always tank and spank. Only thing that's different now is that you can tank and spank thrash to boss. Before you did it with stopping once or twice.

And I remember groups wiping because they didn't do those exact mechanics unless someone there was exceptionally good or over geared.

[Dvaldin]

Dungeons were very important content in Vanilla and TBC due to end content raids requiring, respectively, 40 and 25 players. For those who couldn't make the cut, or weren't interested, in those raiding groups, there were dungeons and UBRS/Kara.

I'd say dungeons began becoming less important once the token system was introduced toward the end of TBC. After that, they took another hit in Wrath when all raids had a 10-man size...and then again at the end of Cata when LFR was introduced.

I'm glad it's easy to get into raiding, but I sure do miss things like the 45-min Strat run and the struggle to get attuned to Kara and other raids. That was the coolest thing about 5-mans to be, was using them to get attuned to raid. Hasn't been back since TBC, but I sure do wish they'd at least do an experiment and have at least one raid to get attuned for. I think most of the complaints against it at the time were from guilds that ran 25-man raids having to constantly attune new members to Kara and gear them up to be useful in the 25-mans. With all raids having the 10-man option now...and scaling...seeing how an attunement process would work for one of those could provide some interesting data...and if it doesn't work, drop it like they did for Kara.

[Palinn]

LOL at varied environments. The 15 dungeons had like 5 or 6 environments at best. Everything else was rehashed. They said 6 new dungeons and 2 old remade. They also said they will be adding more in the expansion soo. If they only add 2 new ones thats still more dungeons than MoP had.

They are adding 8 dungeons with WoD. 6 new ones and 2 remade ones. Its annoying me that people keep saying random numbers like. only 5 dungeons only 6 dungeons etc. Its 8!!

None of the starting dungeons in BC were "rehashed" from previous content. You can't be sitting here saying that because BC had thematic instances within zones that more than one instance per zone doesn't count. Even with the thematic similarities between instances each instance provided a unique challenge.

8 dungeons is still a lot less than 15. Maybe Blizzard forgot this is a 10-level expansion instead of 5...

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Dungeons were very important content in Vanilla and TBC due to end content raids requiring, respectively, 40 and 25 players. For those who couldn't make the cut, or weren't interested, in those raiding groups, there were dungeons and UBRS/Kara.

I'd say dungeons began becoming less important once the token system was introduced toward the end of TBC. After that, they took another hit in Wrath when all raids had a 10-man size...and then again at the end of Cata when LFR was introduced.

This argument for less dungeons makes sense, good point. I agree this is Blizzard's reasoning. I think the design is still flawed, though. Are we even getting an equal amount of raiding content in WOD as previous expansions? I think it is less. How does less raiding content AND less dungeons fill a content-hole? We'd need more raiding content to make this argument reasonable IMO.

[Wozniak]

MoP dungeons we're plain and simple.. lol most of them were not even close to shit except Siege of Niuzao temple

[Lora]

Only because they were so easy and throw away. WoD dungeons will be much harder. They compared the difficulty to pre nerf Vortex Pinnacle.

They will be facerolled within the first week.