WoD will have 5 new 2 rehash dungeons, BC had 15 new dungeons. You do the math.

[Constraint]

Im the opposite, this is the first version of the game ive never encountered bugs in the 5mans. Wrath - Tyrannus used to bug all the time, ToC5 used to bug non stop so you couldnt complete it. TBC where heroics could wipe the group if you didnt have interrupts in your group makeup. Where soft resetting to get a viable mob combo was almost required if you didnt have 5 skilled players in a semi PvP environment (Magisters). A mob which MC's everyone and throws them through a wall and bugs out an entire heroic, making said heroic impossible to finish until next day. Vanilla, well there were alot of bugs in random places, feared through walls/floor, pathing issues for pets (instead of straight flat line lets make the hunter pet run through 5 groups 30 yards to the left instead etc).

Forgive me for having an opinion, but I'd prefer BCs rather bug-free Heroics over MoPs insanely boring, RP-filled excuses for "Heroics" any day of the week. I never had any issues with bugs in BC heroics, besides Thrall occasionally becoming unresponsive at the end of Old Hillsbrad, which was, admittedly, fucking annoying, since that was without question the hardest heroic the game has ever seen.

Sure, quantity isn't always better than quality, but what exactly is better in "quality" about MoPs heroics? Sure, there's more scripted events, but can you honestly argue that they're for the betterment of the dungeon experience?

I mean, would you enjoy Shado-Pan less if they removed those goddamned jumping apprentice Pandas from the room after the frost arrows gauntlet? I certainly wouldn't. Would you enjoy Stormstout Brewery less if the dungeon was less about fighting thousands of Jazz Jackrabbits and getting Ooked in the Dook on a regular basis? Would you enjoy Gates of the Setting Sun less if you didn't have to stand around for 5 minutes while absurdly easy explosive mantids came at you 1 at a time?

I'd be very surprised if you answered "yes" to any of the aforementioned questions.

Perhaps if they spent a little less time scripting such fucking awful events, and more into actually creating instances, we'd have not only a greater variety of dungeons, but less tedious ones too. A win-win situation, so to speak.

As for me, I'm a greedy one - I'd rather have a huge variety of dungeons AND constantly added ones every patch - but if they actually ARE going to add regular new ones, I'll settle for that. I'll believe it when I see it, however.

[Alyxanna]

No. It took roughly the same time as the other expansions, plus had 2 additional races. Any further questions?

If you do a little checking, I think you'll find that a lot of BC was developed during the pre-launch period to vanilla. So three years is not a stretch. It was likely longer. It's standard practice for MMO's to have a pipeline of stuff to carry them through the first two years or so.

[Chingylol]

The dungeons in MOP were horribly designed and forgettable. The brewery was just plain stupid and the rest were totally boring especially the one with the mantids. I really hope the few WOD dungeons we get are interesting, because the MOP ones were far from it.

[RaenavenBlacksun]

I mean, would you enjoy Shado-Pan less if they removed those goddamned jumping apprentice Pandas from the room after the frost arrows gauntlet? I certainly wouldn't. Would you enjoy Stormstout Brewery less if the dungeon was less about fighting thousands of Jazz Jackrabbits and getting Ooked in the Dook on a regular basis? Would you enjoy Gates of the Setting Sun less if you didn't have to stand around for 5 minutes while absurdly easy explosive mantids came at you 1 at a time?

Yes, to everything but Gates, which could be sped up/increased mob flow.
I think you forgot the RPG exists are the end of MMO. I play specifically to see those events.

[intrinsc]

No. It took roughly the same time as the other expansions, plus had 2 additional races. Any further questions?

You are so full of it. WoW came out in November 2004 and TBC came out in January 2007. That is, lets count(since you suck at it), 2 years and 2 months. That's assuming that TBC started development the second WoW was launched, which I doubt. I bet TBC was in development for over 3 years alongside Vanilla.

[Chain Chungus]

I am fine with the number but only on one condition:

They need to add dungeons to every patch that releases a raid.

Getting them as the expac goes on is the best way IMO. People would get new ones to keep them interested throughout the expansion's life instead of all at once to get bored of quickly.

LFR and scenarios are not a replacement for dungeons. I have been a avid dungeon runner since WoW came out. Never liked or got into raiding, and yes I have tried it. Scenarios are fun for solo quests to tell a story but bad for group content. This is what made MoP the worst expansion for me. Not the Asian theme or anything else about it. It could have been the best expac with new dungeons released with, say, Throne of Thunder.

[Constraint]

You are so full of it. WoW came out in November 2004 and TBC came out in January 2007. That is, lets count(since you suck at it), 2 years and 2 months. That's assuming that TBC started development the second WoW was launched, which I doubt. I bet TBC was in development for over 3 years alongside Vanilla.

Shit, guys. Stop the thread. It was released a whole 1 month earlier than Cataclysm, which took 2 years and 1 month. How would you know when they started development of said expansions? They've often stated they've started developing them before their predecessors were even released - why should that only apply to TBC?

Enough bickering without any supporting facts - if you're saying the extra 1 month that TBC took to release enabled them to put forth an extra 7-8 ADDITIONAL dungeons, normal and heroic, then I really don't know what to say to you.

Move along.

[runedhill]

So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you need to stop using crappy buzzwords like rehash to turn people off from the expansion, trying to get them to dislike it before they even know what dungeons are even going to be redone, long before they're ever actually released.

[Emek]

I don't think very many of you guys played during TBC or something...

there was a reason why TBC had so many dungeons

1) Rep grinds
2) Dungeon sets, and importance of ger
3) different big picture outcomes

There were 4 zones that had 3 dungeons each, as well as caverns of time having 2 dungeons, mostly sharing the same over arching theme, they were different dungeons that hardly had the same mechanics and individually played out differently. Back in TBC you got rep for running dungeons in these zones, you couldn't put on a tabard and get rep you actually had to set foot in the instance. If there was only 1 dungeon for the rep it would have been a hell hole, there was a basic necessity to have more dungeons to split up the monotony. Right now there is no rep grind so there's ONE reason why you don't need 14 dungeons.

Dungeon sets and over all gear was pretty big back then they carried you through a lot of 10m content and set you up for 25m raiding. nowadays with lfr flex and normals the gear you get in 5m heroics is essentially useless, you're running heroics to vp cap and get jp, not to get gear and the gear you get is to unlock lfr, the gear itself is useless, so there's not a reason to have so many dungeons to have a wide variety of loot to fit everyone.

I think a lot of people are looking at dungeons from an archaic point of view. If you want to have more 5m dungeons you need to revert back to old school styles of pre raiding to properly fit the time line of entering raiding. 5m's aren't a big thing anymore, as blizzard continues to cater to casual raiding, and i'm not saying this condescendingly, things like 5ms lose purpose because it's easier to get epics to replace the blue gear now then it was 6 years ago.

[thedingleberry]

Totally agree. Blizzard is giving us less content than ever and people are brainwashed into being happy with it. Why play a game with nothing to do....

[Stacko]

So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

Thoughts?

Thoughts?? Dungeons are awful and not even fun.

[Ghier]

The only thing that matters is if they are fun or not. If there is enough in WoD to keep me entertained then I don't care how many it launches with, however I do hope they give 5-mans more love in WoD since that's probably my favourite part of the game and MoP for the most part lacked in that department.

Yea i'm not always part of a raid group and I used to love running heroics in BC and WotLK. More so in BC. Don't like scenarios at all. I would be happy if heroic 5 mans were used to gear up for raids and LFR had non gear rewards. Maybe some kind of rep or cosmetic items. The devs want more people to experience the raids but they don't have to be how you gear up. Just my 2 cents.

[Wilian]

Yes, to everything but Gates, which could be sped up/increased mob flow.
I think you forgot the RPG exists are the end of MMO. I play specifically to see those events.

Scripted bla bla events RPG do not make. Events like chest event, arena event, Jailbreak event, closing gigantic gates event, multiple mini-events in bar and to save princess from Thaurissan or not, gathering items to progress further RPG make.

BRD alone has actual RPG events more than all of MoPs dungeons combined.

On that note, from what I've seen we do not only get very miniscule amount of dungeons, but they all seem very short and extremely linear on top of it.

[eillas]

Dungeons stopped being the only focus for non raid end game.

[Deleted]

I just hope they all have unique looks, and aren't all similar. If we get dungeons like the mantid ones again I'll cry! I don't mind the theme or anything, but the gating stopping you from running them at your own speed really was annoying.

[Frolk]

Jaylock...perhaps u should stop posting stupid flamebait posts about a game u dont even play, those are my thoughts

[Jurid]

Dude. WoW and xpacs arent just about dungeons you know? With the addition to being able to acquire loot from quest, there will be a never little need to ever do a dungeon while leveling and spam it just because you are a lazy cheeseburgered stained, staying in your mom's basement dude. I know I know... old jokes but either way thats what this guy is. Grow some balls, tough it out and quest like everyone else will do. Just be happy that Blizzard is making a stupid move to put in paid boost to 90 so lazy people like you can spend your money and get a free ride to 90.

[Vorality]

This is a questionable topic because of Challenge Modes. MoP was the first expansion to introduce Challenge Modes and kept the same 9 dungeons throughout the entire expansion - no new ones released. I wonder, since they've said they would like to do Challenge Modes again in WoD, if they are not going to introduce new dungeons throughout the expansion to keep the challenge mode achievements relevant.

[Bad Ashe]

there was not 15 at launch for tbc. was only 13 to start

[Giscoicus]

This is a questionable topic because of Challenge Modes. MoP was the first expansion to introduce Challenge Modes and kept the same 9 dungeons throughout the entire expansion - no new ones released. I wonder, since they've said they would like to do Challenge Modes again in WoD, if they are not going to introduce new dungeons throughout the expansion to keep the challenge mode achievements relevant.

Why do they keep pushing challenge modes >.>

they arent fun, they arent hard. Can Blizzard really not just admit "hey, this feature we thought of sucks ass" and remove it?