Once again, please.

[jmcneil189]

Hey all,

I appreciate the help with my previous thread:

**mmo-champion.com/threads/1444375-Help-our-healers-please**

I could use the help again. We downed Garrosh last week, but we seemed to have a substantial amount of trouble with it's this week. Trying to figure out where they were messing up. Just glancing at logs, I see their defensive CD's weren't used as efficiently. Again, any help is greatly appreciated

Logs from Garrosh:
**worldoflogs.com/reports/ehqxl9z9zk3h4dnh/**

Druid's armory:
**us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Area-52/Twixen/advanced**

(She may have logged out in Balance, but her gear is the same for both. She does no OS work for raid.)

Thanks again,
Jinthalas

[Alltat]

Looking at the longer attempts, you seem to be getting wiped out by unavoidable damage like Whirling Corruption and Annihilate splash damage. From the look of things, you're dying because your burst HPS is inadequate. Looking a bit closer at the logs, that is in no way surprising. Cooldown use is almost nonexistent. In 22 attempts, I see only four uses of Tranquility, zero uses of Incarnation, zero uses of Heart of the Wild, only one use of Ironbark per fight (it's on a one minute cooldown), less than two Barkskin uses per fight (45 second cooldown), and zero uses of Nature's Swiftness (again, 1 min cd).


For Garrosh, I personally go with Soul of the Forest and Nature's Vigil. Use NV on each heart/Annihilate phase. Use Tranquility on the first Whirling Corruption and then again on the next whirl after it comes off cooldown. Once you reach phase three and there are no more heart phases, alternate NV and Tranq for the empowered whirls. Use both Ironbark and Barkskin on every AoE phase. Use Symbiosis on a shaman to get Spiritwalker's Grace and use that with Tranquility so you can move while channeling. Make sure to start casting Rejuvenations on the raid before the whirling starts. DBM has timers for everything important.

And as a random bit of druid advice: use Stampeding Roar the second you enter the heart realms. Everyone will be stacked up and you'll be able to get out of them a few seconds faster.

[Evandril]

Are you looking for specific Twixen advice or general raid advice? One player misperforming should not lead to the 22 wipes I see on your WoL link.

Everything Alltat went over in the last page still applies very much so to these new logs. Judging from Lifebloom uptimes, I envision Twixen focusing on raid healing over tank healing. In 10 man content, especially with 2 healers, tank healing becomes very much a part of a Resto Druid's role. They're better at it than some think; constant LB and Rejuvs rolling on the tank provide a very good stabilization on their health. Push your healers to balance tank and raid healing; it's essential.


I went through your deaths for this batch of logs. The main causes of death I see are tanks dying (neglectful healing?), aggro on raid members, Whirling Corruptions, and Desecrated Weapons.

Pushing your healers to balance tank and raid healing will help towards the tanks dying. Besides transitions, there are times between Whirling Corruptions, Desecrated Weapons, and Iron Stars where raid should require no healing (tanks have full threat). Your raid only need to be healed up before the next aoe damaging source, they are not in danger of dying in-between these. Let the passive Efflorescence and Healing Rains top your raid off, save your mana and focus on keeping tanks alive.

You have a hunter and the option of a Balance Druid applying symbiosis to said Hunter for a second misdirect. Utilize these on waves of multiple adds; the single add can easily be taunted.

Keep your ranged group organized and together. Rotate between two points for Desecrated Weapons in Phase 1 and 2. Helps for AoE healing and keeping everyone in range and in an organized mindset. When adds start spawning from Empowered Whirling Corruptions make sure your raid spreads, gets aggro on their adds, and kills them without buffing other adds. Have a dps kill the healers adds while they keep everyone alive. If adds get out of control this can quickly kill your raid. Once the adds are eliminated, stack back up on a set point or a marked range member. Once phase 3 hits and you are ignoring adds, misdirect them to your off-tank and burn the boss. Set a direction for your range to rotate around the boss at max distance once a desecrated weapon comes out (you should be ignoring it during this final phase). Again, this keeps everyone within range of your heals, allows for easy add pick up, and keeps your group in an organized mindset.

One thing that may help keeping your melee alive during Whirling Corruption is to have them move out to the ranged group for reduced damage due to the nature of the ability and aoe heals/cds. Ranged and healers will want to stay within range of the boss and tank, but melee can run as far as possible while remaining in AoE heals as they're doing 0 damage regardless.

You should be coordinating healing/raid wide CDs for these hard hitting phases. Feel out where you're being damaged the most and plan accordingly. In my experience there is always a phase where Desecrated Weapons spawns then Whirling Corruption happens immediately after while you are moving. Try to use a cooldown that doesn't require you to stand in anything for this one.


In general, train your raid to be coordinated and organized in all aspects. Plan out CD rotations and communicate them, preemptively use your cooldowns. If you try to use them reactively on harder bosses it will generally be too little too late. Keep your ranged and melee groups in a clean stack for fights that allow this. Keep them in a loose stack for fights you need to spread.
Push all members to intelligently utilize their defensives on cooldown; this will greatly reduce the overall damage taken.

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Edit: God help me if my advice is infallible. Please feel free to critique it and debate where you think it's incorrect; I'm always learning as well!

[Aboubacar]

Mining is not a raiding profession. Recommend engineering.

[Alltat]

Plan out CD rotations and communicate them, preemptively use your cooldowns. If you try to use them reactively on harder bosses it will generally be too little too late. Keep your ranged and melee groups in a clean stack for fights that allow this. Keep them in a loose stack for fights you need to spread.

In my experience (meaning a dozen or so normal Garrosh kills), there are really only four points in the fight where your healing matters. The rest of the time you can just relax and regenerate mana. If you can deal with these mechanics, the rest is smooth sailing. Use Displacer Beast when Desecrated Weapon is cast to get into position immediately for whatever comes after.

1. Warsong. Increases the damage the adds do by 150%, so the offtank will need to use defensive cooldowns and you'll probably need to step up the healing. Use Ironbark, Lifebloom and Rejuvenation on the add tank and be ready with Nature's Swiftness. Make sure the offtank is saving their own cooldowns for it.

2. Iron stars. The explosion deals a decent amount of damage to the whole raid when it hits the wall. There's no reason to be spread out at this point, so just bloom your mushroom and then immediately cast Wild Growth to heal the people not standing near the mushroom. The order of the two spells is key.

3. Annihilate during the alternate world phases. Use cooldowns like Incarnation, Force of Nature and/or Nature's Vigil, as well as defensive cooldowns like Ironbark and Barkskin. Do not use Tranquility. Keep your mushroom under Garrosh and bloom it right after he hits. Repeat every two or three hits. You should be able to get two or three good blooms off in each Annihilate phase. Don't wait for the mushroom grow fully as it'll just overheal.

4. Whirling Corruption. Use Ironbark and Barkskin for each one. Begin casting Rejuvenation on people 4-5 seconds before it starts. If it's not empowered yet you should stack up and use the shroom bloom to heal people. Tranquility is perfect for dealing with the unempowered whirls, so pop it right away on the first one (the sooner you use it, the sooner you can use it again). The empowered whirls are a bit nastier as you have to spread up and can't stand still. If you put Symbiosis on a shaman you can use Spiritwalker's Grace to move while channeling Tranquility. Use all cooldowns you have available to deal with it once he enters phase three, as you won't get any more alternate dimension phases anymore.

[ryklin]

try to make sure you have a cooldown for each whirl, there should be about 3 between each sha transition phase I think, so split your cds up and call for them, you have 3 droods, 1 dk, 2 shammies, and 1 pally, and try to save your 8minute tranqs for empowered whirls

also, either have your dps lay off on dots when people get mc'd or have your healers dispel that shit, because mc's come right before the whirls and if healing is already an issue, this will make it worse, and I'm seeing a lot of deaths with contributing damage from that, especially diseases, which only the pally tank can dispel (and he doesn't)

most your wipes even seem to be heal problems, like very few issues with issues with mc's even, maybe a few tank issues here and there (like why was the tank in the desecrate, or getting the adds while tanking garrosh
even the empowered whirl adds seemed to be handled decently well

healers should be watching timers, and taking cooldown-ish talents as opposed to sustained healing talents (Elemental mastery, Ancestral guidance, nature's vigil, incarnation/treants)

she should be trying to keep lifebloom up some more, and use innervate more often

I also really don't like how he takes damage from desecrate, it's really easy to take 0 ticks from it with displacer beast, let alone, with a lock portal, but that doesn't really matter as far as wiping

I assume you guys are using knockbacks to get adds into the ironstar

and as said above, make sure people are popping personal defensives for abilities that come predictably (ry to avoid ones that reduce dps like ice block and deterrence, but use barkskin, ams, mage shield (temporal I think, since it's off the gcd, but I'm not sure)

and like, people seriously need to get it together with battle rezzes, it should take 10 seconds tops for a healer to make sure everyone's hp is safe, and 3s for your dps
and what's with all the standing in annihilates, like, it's really not that hard, and make sure everyone's stacking in melee, easier to heal and easier to dodge, even if they're ranged

and there's probably something overall wrong with your healers, but I'm not good enough to figure out with logs from this fight, whether it's mana judgement, overhealing, or what, but yeah, I'm not too great at reading logs so I can't tell, they'll probably learn over time, and maybe it's just they're not used to a fight where your healing done is equal to your ability to watch boss mods, and I might just be overworried from annihilate phase too, because they should be able to solo-heal it, even if the other one does mess up and die, which you got a couple wipes from, because if they're able to heal normal IJ, shamans, and thok, this should be a piece of cake for them

hell, sometimes they even have issues with people dying to annihilates they've dodged w/ 2 healers up, I dunno' maybe try to just be more careful getting yellow orbs (although it's still pretty heal-able through without, it's literally like mindless aoe healing, like, what healers come to raids for

[jmcneil189]

Thanks for the help,

Again, I'll try to get them to implement these things, and see how it works. Myself and a few others had figured these were the issues, but it's always nice to have an outside opinion and extra sets of eyes.

Jinthalas