All raid drops should be on a vendor.

[SageKalzi]

Oh fuck that.
Rng became a thing in Cata. Grinding was the big thing before and it needs to fucking come back. This crap about getting luck and unlucky is stupid. A guy who played most of the year should not have to worry about being surpassed some new person who just started playing a few weeks ago.
Honestly so long as it is tied to normal up and that it takes like 5-15 kills of said boss then I'd be ok with it. BUT ONLY AFTER YOU KILLED ALL THE RAID BOSSES.

I did BRD (Blackrock Depths, vanilla dungeon) approximately 200 times on my Rogue (at level 60) to attempt to get the Barman's Shanker. This was when you had to find your own group and usually with how long the instance was they would fall apart before reaching that point because that was about an hour and a half into the instance at that time. It dropped once of those ~200 times and I never did get it until my Rogue was level 68 in BC.

I ran pretty much all the level 66-70 dungeons attempting to get the dungeon set (Assassin's?) in BC at least 30 times each, I ended up getting the items stolen from Druids and stuff so many times I gave up (Rolling is also part of RNG.) I also ran that Black Morass instance probably 75+ times to try to get the trinket. I think it was a couple months before Wrath came out that I got that Trinket on my Rogue, got it second run on my Hunter.

Wrath I didn't play too much but I remember farming the Crusader Tournament dungeon at least 60 times to get all my needed items in that place and all of them have around an 8% drop chance.

Cata did not introduce RNG.

[Santoryu]

One thing I love about raiding in Everquest is they remove some of the RNG monster when it comes to loot. Raids drop currency similar to Valor Points. Once you have cleared a tier a vendor is unlocked which sells every single raid drop from that tier. You then use the currency you gained from beating bosses to buy items you really want but just have horrible luck. Why wouldnt this work in WoW? It doesnt reward people wanting free loot because you still have to clear the raids once to unlock them. If you arent doing the raids then you dont need the gear anyways. Also this way like I said you dont have to go weeks or even months hoping an item drops you really want. Once you have enough currency earned from raiding you can just buy it. Everybody is happy.

The entitlement is strong with this one.

[Dabrix32]

People might not like the downsides of RNG but it's what keeps people playing. Bad luck with RNG sucks, but good RNG is what makes the game feel fun and rewarding.

Buying your raid gear from a vendor feels neither fun nor rewarding.

how is it still not rewarding? You still have to do the raids to unlock the vendors. You still have to kill bosses to get the type of currency needed. I would love something like this. But they need to add a new currency for it to work so you cant use your current points. As long as its a new currency so everyone starts at the same level. As long as you have to clear the raids to keep the loot as raid only reward. Kill all on Normal you unlock the normal vendor. Kill all on Heroic to unlock the heroic gear. Nothing for LFR we all know its not raiding. If those conditions are met then why wouldnt it work? I mean how much fun was it to go 3-4 months without ever seeing a heroic DBW drop back in Wrath just to watch another guild get one every single kill. This still rewards you for doing the bosses because you still have to kill stuff. Where is the reward if every single piece of loot for the night gets DE'd and everyone goes home with nothing to show for it?

[melodramocracy]

Non RNG elements effectively lower replay value, which is a bad thing for MMO's designed like this one.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I did BRD (Blackrock Depths, vanilla dungeon) approximately 200 times on my Rogue (at level 60) to attempt to get the Barman's Shanker. This was when you had to find your own group and usually with how long the instance was they would fall apart before reaching that point because that was about an hour and a half into the instance at that time. It dropped once of those ~200 times and I never did get it until my Rogue was level 68 in BC.

I ran pretty much all the level 66-70 dungeons attempting to get the dungeon set (Assassin's?) in BC at least 30 times each, I ended up getting the items stolen from Druids and stuff so many times I gave up (Rolling is also part of RNG.) I also ran that Black Morass instance probably 75+ times to try to get the trinket. I think it was a couple months before Wrath came out that I got that Trinket on my Rogue, got it second run on my Hunter.

Wrath I didn't play too much but I remember farming the Crusader Tournament dungeon at least 60 times to get all my needed items in that place and all of them have around an 8% drop chance.

Cata did not introduce RNG.

I hate to be THAT guy, bit I think nightguard was introduced to WoW via Cata. I had similar statistics regarding RNG... freaking PALLY DUNGEON GEAR!

[Majestian]

This idea seems to be just DKP baked into the game itself.

[Lilly32]

This idea seems to be just DKP baked into the game itself.

more like a bonus. If you win loot when it drops thats great. But this way if you go months without that shiny trinket you could at least use currency gained from doing the raids to buy one. Just make the prices high enough to where it would take 3-4 weeks to earn enough to buy an item.

[Manhands]

Thinking about this more, making a vendor is a horrible idea. The extra loot roll is good enough.

[Shadowspire]

RNG still played a part, however you are right that long grinds could help make up for bad luck. I do miss grinding materials from dungeons and the world to craft a single piece, but the only way that will ever happen if they stop streamlining the gear path.

But I disagree with the way around RNG being simply a counter or a currency. Grinding tons of rare mats would be one thing, in addition to rare drops or whatever, that could be interesting.

What I would like to see is spirits of war, some of farmed trillium and kyparite, some obscure number of Dinosaur bones from Isle of Giants, items only dropped from mobs in scholomance, and drops that may come from the Sha between Protectors and Norushen could be crafted into some shoulders that look like the warrior tier. Stuff like that, things you could pick up over time would be nice, but you still shouldnt be able to just say "give me this piece because I killed the boss 7 times" alternative items could come from crafting. Maybe not require raid drops but something else, and with tertiary stats they could easily add more customization, or reduced stats but effects.

Crafting used to work also. I used to put in a whole day farming mats for one epic back in wrath( I started late BC) back then there was only one thing that had a daily cool down and that was titansteel and nothing was soulbound when it came to mats. Now every little mat is soulbound and everything takes at the min a month to create. So unless blizz goes back to the days where an expansion had atleast 5 diffrent types of mats and everything but that one super mat isn't soulbound, crafting is mostly dead except for pov gear.

[Armourboy]

more like a bonus. If you win loot when it drops thats great. But this way if you go months without that shiny trinket you could at least use currency gained from doing the raids to buy one. Just make the prices high enough to where it would take 3-4 weeks to earn enough to buy an item.

Still though you put a shelf life on how long the raid can last and Blizzard has said for a very long time that they are ok with people not always getting every piece of BiS gear before the next raid. As much as I've played over the years I think the only time I ever got close to BiS was coming out of ICC and that was because the expansion took so long.

[Tyraena]

Oh fuck that.
Rng became a thing in Cata. Grinding was the big thing before and it needs to fucking come back. This crap about getting luck and unlucky is stupid. A guy who played most of the year should not have to worry about being surpassed some new person who just started playing a few weeks ago.
Honestly so long as it is tied to normal up and that it takes like 5-15 kills of said boss then I'd be ok with it. BUT ONLY AFTER YOU KILLED ALL THE RAID BOSSES.

HiLARious. If anything RNG has steadily become more streamlined, along with loot tables, to make sure people get something consistently, even if the stat allocations sucked. Instead of only having 1 armor piece and 1-2 weaps/raid tier, there are many of each, but only 1 with *exactly* the stats you prefer for a given spec/class. Just because the random stats on gear will have a greater variance to include long grinds to BIS in no way means you will be getting less gear - just seeing *exactly* what you want less often.

If you go what you ask for in this post, the vendor would prolly sell blank pieces that random stats when you purchase. Sure, they have guaranteed that unlucky spot in your character sheet has the iLvl of the raid you are farming - just not the BiS stats you wanted on the first (or possibly any) attempts to fill it.

Not to mention all the heroic/mythic tears this would cause regarding "entitlement/welfare" gear once again.

[SageKalzi]

I hate to be THAT guy, bit I think nightguard was introduced to WoW via Cata. I had similar statistics regarding RNG... freaking PALLY DUNGEON GEAR!

Nightguard? No clue what you're talking about. I didn't say anything about nightguard.

[sizzlinsauce]

People might not like the downsides of RNG but it's what keeps people playing. Bad luck with RNG sucks, but good RNG is what makes the game feel fun and rewarding.

Buying your raid gear from a vendor feels neither fun nor rewarding.

boy glad im not paid like that then. i'd much rather be contracted to do 14 paintings and roll dice to see whether i get paid on all 14 or not...

[Seezer]

We gear up waaaaay too fast right now. They need to slow it down. Not put guarantees in or speed it up.

[Egoism]

I agree, actually.

In ONE case.

LFR drops from past expansions.

Sell them for JP, just like the current vendors do.

IE: Sell the LFR Dragon Soul items, in MOP. Sell the MOP LFR items in WOD.

[SlippyCheeze]

Welp, it works reasonably for PvP gear, right? Cap conquest each week and you have the same gearing rate as other PvP players. It would certainly reduce the RNG variance in PvE competition -- now a clear would be assured to be on a much more even footing. OTOH, if you had that *and* RNG drops it would reduce the overall risk...

...but, hey, it worked OK for ToT, no?

[Sketchy]

I agree, actually.

In ONE case.

LFR drops from past expansions.

Sell them for JP, just like the current vendors do.

IE: Sell the LFR Dragon Soul items, in MOP. Sell the MOP LFR items in WOD.

Now that's an idea I can agree with!

[TheWindWalker]

IE: Sell the LFR Dragon Soul items, in MOP. Sell the MOP LFR items in WOD.

I would absolutely love that for transmog.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

People might not like the downsides of RNG but it's what keeps people playing. Bad luck with RNG sucks, but good RNG is what makes the game feel fun and rewarding.

Buying your raid gear from a vendor feels neither fun nor rewarding.

Indeed. It's not fun to farm points, that was why I hated early MoP gearing.

[Recom]

This suggestion is pretty good. The vendor could sell the gear without any form of upgrade (no Warforged, no gem, no tertiary stat) so that you still want to farm the raid for a chance at the same piece but upgraded.