All raid drops should be on a vendor.

[Klingers]

Its not really work in any capacity though. You call it rec time when you conveniently want, then its suddenly "hard work" later when you conveniently want it to be. And yes, in a text based communication, YOU SHOULD BE AS LITERAL AS YOU CAN BE! I'm not really sure what your "sunlight" comment even means. Not to mention how your context is altered when you use words falsely, unclearly, or dishonestly.

Then this is the wrong game for you. Trying to selfishly change that just because you like having a set plan and blah blah is bad. Taking away RNG in any capacity is better for the game and genre why exactly? You get geared faster, you go through content faster = YOU ARE SUBBED FOR LESS TIME = LESS MONEY = BAD FOR BLIZZARD = BAD FOR YOU AND ME!

And you ARE given MANY rewards when you use time in WoW. You can get rep, get timeless coins, get gold, make friends, get random items from the loot boxes, get gear, earn valor.. I could keep going, but the point is, those aren't the right rewards for you. Its the purplez. Can we stop bullshitting now please?

And no, it doesn't matter if you are currently subbed. This discussion isn't one that is actually trying to get you to quit/stay subbed/resub etc, its purely about the RNG aspects. Just like if we were arguing about abortion; No one is actually doing so while thinking the other person is actually ABOUT TO GET ONE.

Man you're taking some real personal offense to someone having a different opinion to you, aren't you?

RNG can exist, that's fine. It's the lack of non-RNG options in certain areas that's a problem.

I fully expect you to continue this little zero-sum game back and forth ad-infinitum so I'll bow out. I can't be bothered re-treading different ways to address the same arguments you're throwing at me anymore. The effort/payoff ratio just isn't there. Suffice to say you're wrong.

Last word on this is yours. You're wrong, but it's yours. Feel free to tell me what a shallow person I am and how RNG is bad, just for something different. Maybe tell me I should quit the game I'm currently not playing some more. Enjoy

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Man you're taking some real personal offense to someone having a different opinion to you, aren't you?

RNG can exist, that's fine. It's the lack of non-RNG options in certain areas that's a problem.

I fully expect you to continue this little zero-sum game back and forth ad-infinitum so I'll bow out. I can't be bothered re-treading different ways to address the same arguments you're throwing at me anymore. The effort/payoff ratio just isn't there. Suffice to say you're wrong.

Last word on this is yours. You're wrong, but it's yours. Feel free to tell me what a shallow person I am and how RNG is bad, just for something different. Maybe tell me I should quit the game I'm currently not playing some more. Enjoy

No, I'm not taking offense. But you trying to point that out shows you feel pushed against the wall =]

RNG options regarding what? OH ITS PURPLEZ LOL. So shallow.

No, I'm not wrong. You just don't like the effort/payoff ratio. Thats fine, never resub and we will both be happy.

You haven't proven me wrong, so claiming as such is a lie and very shameful.

[Draknalor186]

tier items are alrdy from vendor, don't see how people are so against the rest of things begin so aswell, you kill boss gets rewarded points.. goes to vendor and say "hey you vendor guy i killed alot of big monsters and evil guys at that place where you kill big evil guys, do you have any reward for me?"

[Marquize]

I could agree to this if there was a limitation, such as only one item can be bought from the shop every week and that the item costs atleast 1k VP

[Warlord Booty]

I am a little torn on this one. As someone who has a toon with over 40 sigils of power and 5 sigils of wisdom, RNG can be a major asshole sometimes. But as others have said, it makes you keep playing. If you can BIS in a month, more people would drop their subs. I certainly would/did.

[lsnderick]

There are options.. they can tune it so that it takes more than 1 moth to get all BiS items.. Also there could be a certain amount of kills required for certain loot pieces.. Similar to PvP system we have now where you need to earn certain amount of Conquest/Honor to buy the weapons! For example if u need a mace from Nazgrim u have to kill him 8 times before you could buy it from vendor..

[TooMuch]

No, I'm not taking offense. But you trying to point that out shows you feel pushed against the wall =]

RNG options regarding what? OH ITS PURPLEZ LOL. So shallow.

No, I'm not wrong. You just don't like the effort/payoff ratio. Thats fine, never resub and we will both be happy.

You haven't proven me wrong, so claiming as such is a lie and very shameful.

And people wondered when the WoW community became toxic. Well here's a good example of somebody that doesn't read or has no reading comprehension skills. He can only repeat what he has said a thousand times before and insult other people. Everything he says is right (or a fact), anything someone else said is wrong (and not even considered an opinion). I really hope you "behave" different in-game

[-Superman-]

I agree with this. I'm not sure why so many people think that RNG, and guaranteed rewards have to be mutually exclusive, there are degrees of both that are acceptable.

There should be RNG drops from bosses, but there should also be a currency similar to Valor that gets awarded from current content raid bosses with which you can buy gear. It doesn't even need to be tier or every slot, but people should feel like the time investment required for raiding isn't like playing slots in Vegas. I don't like to play slot machines.

Very much agreed. It goes back to PvE vs PvP. There should be a feesible system for BOTH types of players. I think this presents an opportunity to allow raiders a chance to get SOMETHING after 3 weeks and nothing but gold.

[mickybrighteyes]

I am a little torn on this one. As someone who has a toon with over 40 sigils of power and 5 sigils of wisdom, RNG can be a major asshole sometimes. But as others have said, it makes you keep playing. If you can BIS in a month, more people would drop their subs. I certainly would/did.

That's showing RNG as a bandaid fix for less than great gameplay

[Deleted]

I don't know.

I like the idea in a way, as i am VERY unlucky with the whole RNG thing.. but if bosses only dropped "essences" or currency i could trade in for gear that would have dropped from that boss, does it not seem like... bland? I like the surprise element of the items i want showing up in the loot window. i don't know, i'd like it for obvious reasons but i'd also find it very boring.

[MadBloke101]

And people wondered when the WoW community became toxic. Well here's a good example of somebody that doesn't read or has no reading comprehension skills. He can only repeat what he has said a thousand times before and insult other people. Everything he says is right (or a fact), anything someone else said is wrong (and not even considered an opinion). I really hope you "behave" different in-game

So glad someone wrote this ... grud it sure was painful to read those replies up to this point.

[Deleted]

Managing DKP and item distribution is really the only major thing a guild has to do besides managing its members and raids. Making raids give currency instead of items will just dumb down things and take out skill requirements.

[Alvito]

Oh fuck that.
Rng became a thing in Cata. Grinding was the big thing before and it needs to fucking come back. This crap about getting luck and unlucky is stupid. A guy who played most of the year should not have to worry about being surpassed some new person who just started playing a few weeks ago.
Honestly so long as it is tied to normal up and that it takes like 5-15 kills of said boss then I'd be ok with it. BUT ONLY AFTER YOU KILLED ALL THE RAID BOSSES.

When it comes to loot RNG has been an issue since raiding began. Cata didn't create this feature/problem

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

And people wondered when the WoW community became toxic. Well here's a good example of somebody that doesn't read or has no reading comprehension skills. He can only repeat what he has said a thousand times before and insult other people. Everything he says is right (or a fact), anything someone else said is wrong (and not even considered an opinion). I really hope you "behave" different in-game

Wait, whats that? Sorry, I read all his posts. All he did was repeat the same shit as well. Not to mention the person I was replying to started the insults =]

I've never once stated my opinions on this as fact, while the other person repeats "you are wrong and I've proven it!" over and over ... lmao get real man.

- - - Updated - - -

So glad someone wrote this ... grud it sure was painful to read those replies up to this point.

Then reply and prove me wrong =]

[Volitar]

I would like this system but it seems to be the exact opposite of what WoW is trying to do..They axed badge gear and now they created Thunderforged/Warforged/WeirdRNGstats so that people will keep doing the stupid raid to try and collect gear.

[SlippyCheeze]

Very much agreed. It goes back to PvE vs PvP. There should be a feesible system for BOTH types of players. I think this presents an opportunity to allow raiders a chance to get SOMETHING after 3 weeks and nothing but gold.

...thankfully Blizzard heard your requests, and already implemented protection to ensure that you have assured item drops when you have a streak of bad RNG luck. That means that even if your normal or heroic mode kills don't drop anything you can use, unlikely as that is, or that you already have or that isn't an upgrade, you *still* have exactly the opportunity to get something that you want.

IIRC, they even pegged it at about three weeks before it pretty much hit a certain drop for you, though I can't source that right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Managing DKP and item distribution is really the only major thing a guild has to do besides managing its members and raids. Making raids give currency instead of items will just dumb down things and take out skill requirements.

DKP, Loot Council, and Suicide Kings are not "high skill" tools. They are all systems that you could explain the model to a ten year old and expect them to understand how it worked. LC is the most "skill" intensive, and that one involves delegating a small number of experts the "skill" part, and letting the rest of the raid team know nothing. (Heck, it is practically predicate on the idea that the rest of the raid team don't know as well as the experts.

If they dropped currency, though, wouldn't the same guilds that manage this "skill" based DKP thing be equally dictating what their raiders spent their currency on?

- - - Updated - - -

I would like this system but it seems to be the exact opposite of what WoW is trying to do..They axed badge gear and now they created Thunderforged/Warforged/WeirdRNGstats so that people will keep doing the stupid raid to try and collect gear.

Their public statements on the subject have cause and effect reversed there: instead of wanting the gear randomness to encourage people to keep running the raid, they want the gear randomness to make running the raid a little more potentially interesting if you already cleared it and geared. That is, less stuff should be sharded during progression on the end bosses, and more of it actually used by raiders. Plus the gentle power ramp that allows them to delay or avoid global nerfs to the raid...

They even said that the idea that anyone could achieve full BiS was kind of toxic -- because at that point there is no more potential reward if you want to run the raid. I tend to agree: if you have cleared the raid, but are not BiS, do you really need to run it more? Is gear that important to you?

[Skorpionss]

Oh fuck that.
Rng became a thing in Cata. Grinding was the big thing before and it needs to fucking come back. This crap about getting luck and unlucky is stupid. A guy who played most of the year should not have to worry about being surpassed some new person who just started playing a few weeks ago.
Honestly so long as it is tied to normal up and that it takes like 5-15 kills of said boss then I'd be ok with it. BUT ONLY AFTER YOU KILLED ALL THE RAID BOSSES.

? Rng was a big part since vanilla I think you mean vendor gear came in cata, which it didn't it did in TBC... when the first incarnation of jp/vp was implemented... It used to be a lot more RNG before when different items dropped from different bosses in raids... you wanted t2 pants ? whell u better kill that boss till your hart bled and hoped for drop... now you have currencies that u can trade for multiple class's tier items

[Scinder]

One thing I love about raiding in Everquest is they remove some of the RNG monster when it comes to loot. Raids drop currency similar to Valor Points. Once you have cleared a tier a vendor is unlocked which sells every single raid drop from that tier. You then use the currency you gained from beating bosses to buy items you really want but just have horrible luck. Why wouldnt this work in WoW? It doesnt reward people wanting free loot because you still have to clear the raids once to unlock them. If you arent doing the raids then you dont need the gear anyways. Also this way like I said you dont have to go weeks or even months hoping an item drops you really want. Once you have enough currency earned from raiding you can just buy it. Everybody is happy.

I don't know when you started playing EverQuest but I never saw those vendors. Granted I played from 1999 till 2006 (Prophecy of Ro) and was in one of the worlds top raiding guilds. Drops were hard to come by and were not on a vendor.

The only players that were really geared were high end raiders.

[Firen]

Oh fuck that.
Rng became a thing in Cata. Grinding was the big thing before and it needs to fucking come back. This crap about getting luck and unlucky is stupid. A guy who played most of the year should not have to worry about being surpassed some new person who just started playing a few weeks ago.
Honestly so long as it is tied to normal up and that it takes like 5-15 kills of said boss then I'd be ok with it. BUT ONLY AFTER YOU KILLED ALL THE RAID BOSSES.

Became a thing in Cata? I remember being in Molten Core/BWL/Onyxias Lair a LOT of times until I actually had a full T1/T2 set. Even though the loot was shared back then it was still RNG seeing as we were 40 people, sharing (usually) 2 drops that could be for any class and on top of that getting the highest /roll (well, at least until we introduced DKP in our guild).

Although - was I do have to admit - that was kind of more exciting than what we have nowadays, where I get my own RNG and not as a group.

[MadBloke101]

Then reply and prove me wrong =]

That's the wonderful thing - the person I quoted summed it up so wonderfully I don't need to do anything more. The fact you seemed to have missed their point and thus mine, which in turn makes the former point even more wonderful.

It's just wonderful ... here have a smiley back