All raid drops should be on a vendor.

[Naxere]

I could get behind maybe putting LFR gear on a vendor for Valor points, but nothing more than that.

[-Superman-]

I could get behind maybe putting LFR gear on a vendor for Valor points, but nothing more than that.

This would at least make a good jumping off point.

[Kelimbror]

This would at least make a good jumping off point.

I think it would benefit the raid system overall if they even just implement this. It would engage more players in reaching the valor cap, make people feel their time in LFR is more valuable than RNG does, and would make it easier for people looking to actively move from LFR to Flex and onwards.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Can't divert if there is no need to reply - another smiley for your trouble?

No, thats just a diversion, because you don't have a reply =]. See, you suffer from confirmation bias, just because you likely agree with the person I was arguing with, you will forgive their insults, repetition, and bullcrap and blame their opponent for everything(me). Its very sad really.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it would benefit the raid system overall if they even just implement this. It would engage more players in reaching the valor cap, make people feel their time in LFR is more valuable than RNG does, and would make it easier for people looking to actively move from LFR to Flex and onwards.

People already complain about being forced to valor cap, and they complain about how high it is, and they complain about being forced to run LFR+Flex etc.. you don't think that adding more "incentive" would just garner more complaints about "forced" capping etc?

[MrHappy]

lol no. There is a reason why they stopped putting 2pc tier on vendor for VP. You want raid gear go raid. You don't get your drops? well come back next week. RNG is integral part of this game. Vendor = no replay value past X amount of Currency.

[DakonBlackblade]

Loot is fine the way it is, I only think that they should keep the extra loot on the 20 man Mythic (meaning the bosses drop 5 itens instead of 4 wich would be the amount whithout the extra piece) and that bosses that drop tokens should either have a very small loot table or drop the tokens as extra drops cause it sucks big time when you want somethign from a token boss and it never comes since the draw is so freaking small (specialy in 10 man where you get a grand total of 1 non token iten).

ps: post 444, yay for 3 numbers 4 in sucession.

[Kelimbror]

People already complain about being forced to valor cap, and they complain about how high it is, and they complain about being forced to run LFR+Flex etc.. you don't think that adding more "incentive" would just garner more complaints about "forced" capping etc?

For starters, you don't have to cap unless you are the gotta have it now crowd. Valor wouldn't prevent you from getting LFR gear from LFR, it just provides a bonus opportunity for predicted rewards. But secondly, the problem people feel valor capping is a chore is because of the surrounding implementation.

They need to make dungeons viable again, remove the once a day bonus and go back to 7 a week, raise valor income from all sources, etc. If someone wants to smash out 7 dungeons in 4 hours or do dailies and kill rares for 4 hours they should both yield an equivalent and higher amount of valor. Likewise LFR could give you extra valor when you don't get loot. Instead of just gold, bonus rolls would yield more valor with no loot. There are many better implementations.

[Otaka]

Oh fuck that.
Rng became a thing in Cata. Grinding was the big thing before and it needs to fucking come back. This crap about getting luck and unlucky is stupid. A guy who played most of the year should not have to worry about being surpassed some new person who just started playing a few weeks ago.
Honestly so long as it is tied to normal up and that it takes like 5-15 kills of said boss then I'd be ok with it. BUT ONLY AFTER YOU KILLED ALL THE RAID BOSSES.

Think again... rng has been since the early beta.
Do you know how many times people have been farming thunderfury and still are? RNG bro... even i have clocked a couple hundred runs on geddon for the second binding.

RNG never became a thing in cata... it actually was dumped down in cata. Its so much easier to get gear now than it was ever before.

[Stonecloak]

Yea ring has been around since vanilla, and it's not going away. Sorry to be blunt but it's a stupid idea. It adds to the excitement. This is basic. Humans like to be surprised.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

For starters, you don't have to cap unless you are the gotta have it now crowd. Valor wouldn't prevent you from getting LFR gear from LFR, it just provides a bonus opportunity for predicted rewards. But secondly, the problem people feel valor capping is a chore is because of the surrounding implementation.

They need to make dungeons viable again, remove the once a day bonus and go back to 7 a week, raise valor income from all sources, etc. If someone wants to smash out 7 dungeons in 4 hours or do dailies and kill rares for 4 hours they should both yield an equivalent and higher amount of valor. Likewise LFR could give you extra valor when you don't get loot. Instead of just gold, bonus rolls would yield more valor with no loot. There are many better implementations.

Hey man, I know is a silly complaint, but it still happens. People think they have to grind dailies, they have to grind rep etc.

The problem is almost all of your ideas would effectively shorten tiers; you would get more valor and more loot... much easily. People can solo heroics in short amounts of time... The problem ISN'T how much loot you get. Blizzard has made it easier to get loot and currencies by MULTITUDES since Vanilla. The real problem comes from loot addiction....

[Queen of Hamsters]

I much prefer the current system. Raid gear should, and this ain't rocket science, drop from R.A.I.D.S. Gear from other sources for those not raiding/to upgrade some slots if you are unlucky? Sure, but it shouldn't be BIS EVER.

Claiming that raid gear was grindable back in the days is pure BS. You could get some pieces sure, but RNG and raid gear from raids has and always will be a huge part of the game. Only difference is now you don't get 2 pieces of loot for 40 people. Still might get nothing useful in a 25-man though, and then people hope for the next kill. I much prefer getting 1 piece of loot that is BiS from actually working in a raid than to grind currencies and just visit a vendor. The thunderforged/warforged adds more to the table.

Gear is a tool, but that tool SHOULD come from the bosses and not some random npc just carrying it around. Exception being tier tokens but I wouldn't mind the gear to drop from bosses in that case either.

[Kelimbror]

Hey man, I know is a silly complaint, but it still happens. People think they have to grind dailies, they have to grind rep etc.

The problem is almost all of your ideas would effectively shorten tiers; you would get more valor and more loot... much easily. People can solo heroics in short amounts of time... The problem ISN'T how much loot you get. Blizzard has made it easier to get loot and currencies by MULTITUDES since Vanilla. The real problem comes from loot addiction....

All it does is remove partial RNG in favor of increased static rewards. It also doesn't shorten tiers as stated it only would apply to LFR. The impact beyond LFR would be minimal except it may propel more people into Flex/Normal. It has nothing to do with loot addiction. It's streamlining character progression so that your input of effort actually equals rewards. Versus the opposite of input of effort may equal rewards. Loot just happens to be the only way that WoW defines character progression as it relates to content. You can't fault players for that mentality.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

All it does is remove partial RNG in favor of increased static rewards. It also doesn't shorten tiers as stated it only would apply to LFR. The impact beyond LFR would be minimal except it may propel more people into Flex/Normal. It has nothing to do with loot addiction. It's streamlining character progression so that your input of effort actually equals rewards. Versus the opposite of input of effort may equal rewards. Loot just happens to be the only way that WoW defines character progression as it relates to content. You can't fault players for that mentality.

Well for one, the OP doesn't meantion "just LFR." And you already get static rewards, just not static PURPLE BOSS LOOT. And yes, it would shorten the raid tiers, even for just LFR raiders.

Character progression also involves gold, reps, and acheeves, not to mention pets and mounts. Character progression is already very streamlined. You can easily getan ilvl appropriate for Flex.

Yes, if your sole reasoning behind the change is purples, its a loot addiction of sorts. As people in this thread have stated, unlucky RNG has caused some to quit. But you guys are conveniently forgetting all the other rewards you get and pretending like only loot matters... sooo if your fun just comes from gearing as fast as you can... then yeah.. thats a personal problem.

[Ytlayol]

I would like that, but RNG keeps people subbed longer. So... =/

[Kelimbror]

Well for one, the OP doesn't meantion "just LFR." And you already get static rewards, just not static PURPLE BOSS LOOT. And yes, it would shorten the raid tiers, even for just LFR raiders.

The topic you started responding to was people mentioning a very specific suggestion: letting valor buy LFR gear. So either you didn't read before you responded or you are moving the goal posts back to the OP which isn't what you were responding to.

Character progression also involves gold, reps, and acheeves, not to mention pets and mounts.

No, no it doesn't. Your character does not increase in power or ability from any of those things directly. Reps and to some extent gold are areas that can contribute to character progression, but ultimately that is because they funnel into loot. It's simply not debatable either. It's the way Blizzard designed the game. They don't put power in achievements. They don't increase your skills by having shiny mounts. None of that is character progression. In fact, most of that can be segregated to account progression of the cosmetic variety at this point since 95% of it is account wide now.

If Blizzard allowed reputation or achievements to augment your abilities as a player, like putting a new spell behind a meta achievement, then you could say there are other ways to progress. That's just not the design of this game. It would be fun I'm sure, but hard to balance. Nevertheless, not a factor here. You can try and rewrite the argument to suit your repetition, but it doesn't prevent it from being false.\

Edit: inb4 'But progression is whatever you make it' no, it's what Blizzard design says. There are a myriad of activities to do at end game, but that doesn't make them character progression. Tilling my farm isn't character progression. It's an activity and can funnel into achieving something, but my character isn't advancing because of it.

[toomes211]

No, this is a bad idea. Gear in it's current state is a HUGE adrenaline rush. I raid to spend time with friends and have fun and not for gear, and even I get damn excited when I win a HWF trinket on a roll.

Farming bosses for rep or whatever + points, then buying it, doesn't have that same appeal.

[MadBloke101]

No, thats just a diversion, because you don't have a reply =]. See, you suffer from confirmation bias, just because you likely agree with the person I was arguing with, you will forgive their insults, repetition, and bullcrap and blame their opponent for everything(me). Its very sad really.

You really do talk a load of old twoddle... you assume my pov - I don't need to reply to this post as I have previously stated the person I agreed with sums up the point very well, so nothing is required - here I'll relink it for you in case you missed it again:

"And people wondered when the WoW community became toxic. Well here's a good example of somebody that doesn't read or has no reading comprehension skills. He can only repeat what he has said a thousand times before and insult other people. Everything he says is right (or a fact), anything someone else said is wrong (and not even considered an opinion). I really hope you "behave" different in-game "

See I agreed with neither you or the many people that disagreed with you but a third party commenting on the thread in general. Good to see you confirmed their point by missing this completely.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Yea ring has been around since vanilla, and it's not going away. Sorry to be blunt but it's a stupid idea. It adds to the excitement. This is basic. Humans like to be surprised.

I must not be human because I loathe surprises.

[Deleted]

Personally I think it would kinda ruin the fun of raiding.

[Deleted]

Previous expansions' raid gear drops should be available at a vendor for transmog purposes, I think. Farming a raid hoping for that one transmog item that won't drop is a needless waste of time.

The only exception to this would be vanity items such as companion pets and mounts, and legendary items.