Preventing PvP on a PvE Realm: No More "Accidental" Flagging

[-Superman-]

Which would completely have defeated the purpose of it when Wrath was current. Unfortunately for you, there's an island in WoD that will, to my knowledge, have the same behavior.



Your dislike of something doesn't make it an outdated concept. Sorry.

If something is no longer current, and no longer necessary, by it's very definition becomes irrelevant to everyone but nostalgics and collectors. Blizz wants to move forward, and Wintergrasp is just antiquated.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I know you "think" you are saying something when you throw around phrases like "straw man" and other latin bullshit. Simple fact of the matter is Blizz is providing a resource to keep players, not unlike myself, from having to interact with PvP in any way, shape, or form. Personally, I am pleased about it, and wish it had come with the launch of the game. Maybe I would not despise PvPers so much for their attitudes.

Straw man isn't even a latin word or expression. You use them constantly, in every post you make... exactly like this one. Your ideas aren't good and don't benefit the game that much, they are barely thought out and only self serving.

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If something is no longer current, and no longer necessary, by it's very definition becomes irrelevant to everyone but nostalgics and collectors. Blizz wants to move forward, and Wintergrasp is just antiquated.

Thats not what that means. Just because WG was made during Wrath doesn't make the idea antiquated, not necessary, or irrelevant. Especially since they are USING IT IN WOD, proves you wrong lol.

[darklady]

In my early days of WoW back in Vanilla - just after the Battleground patches - it was a gank fest as soon as you found yourself in Duskwood and STV, but it taught me to be a better player. I learned to stay off the main roads and to hide behind cover whenever a higher level player was nearby. I could even lay down on the ground and shadow meld to blend into the terrain. Getting to AQ40 or MC/BWL was like running through the gauntlet on most days.

World PvP is pretty much non-existent even on PvP realms, especially on maps where dailies are involved and people don't want to start wars over it.

I remember these days too, and I would do the same things, but I still wondered why the PvP flag couldn't be turned on and off like a light switch. Why the 5 minute CD? I never believed it was something Blizzard couldn't implement. To keep the PvP-philes happy? On a PvE realm? Big deal. Blizzard could remove all of the PvP from the game and WoW would still thrive. If it got rid of all of the PvE, Wow's subs would drop to a few hundred thousand in a matter of days.

[-Superman-]

Thats not what that means. Just because WG was made during Wrath doesn't make the idea antiquated, not necessary, or irrelevant. Especially since they are USING IT IN WOD, proves you wrong lol.

My issue was not with the method, it was with the location. Apparently that was not made clear. Wintergrasp is no longer current and should not be subject to the same conditions from when it was current. Just like other content which now allows you to solo it, and has likely been nerfed. Wintergrasp itself should only flag you if you are zoning in for PvP. I am not instantly dropped into a raid when I fly over ZP, why should I be flagged for PvP when I have not interacted with opposing faction members, or even targeted by a sky guard?

If they want to use it in WoD, that's fine. I just need to know which Isle to avoid. But keeping old content bound to pvp in non-pvp situations is asinine.

[Orange Joe]

Which would completely have defeated the purpose of it when Wrath was current. Unfortunately for you, there's an island in WoD that will, to my knowledge, have the same behavior.

I don't see anyone here (aside from a few trolls) arguing that there shouldn't be clear instances where you get flagged. Such as entering a pvp zone of entering a enemies city.


What we don't want is those times where we shouldn't have to worry about pvp coming around and getting us flagged for pvp.


So let me repeat this clearly so you can understand me.

Getting flagged for entering a pvp zone = ok.
Getting flagged for a smart heal hitting a flagged ally = bad.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

My issue was not with the method, it was with the location. Apparently that was not made clear. Wintergrasp is no longer current and should not be subject to the same conditions from when it was current. Just like other content which now allows you to solo it, and has likely been nerfed. Wintergrasp itself should only flag you if you are zoning in for PvP. I am not instantly dropped into a raid when I fly over ZP, why should I be flagged for PvP when I have not interacted with opposing faction members, or even targeted by a sky guard?

If they want to use it in WoD, that's fine. I just need to know which Isle to avoid. But keeping old content bound to pvp in non-pvp situations is asinine.

There are very few reasons to even been in WG other than pvp stuff or perhaps some gathering... you can't solo it anyway. Its not the same as ZG. You're comparing a raid to an open world pvp zone.

I'm not 100% sure, but it works the same as when entering the Gurubashi arena in STV, among other arenas.

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I don't see anyone here (aside from a few trolls) arguing that there shouldn't be clear instances where you get flagged. Such as entering a pvp zone of entering a enemies city.


What we don't want is those times where we shouldn't have to worry about pvp coming around and getting us flagged for pvp.


So let me repeat this clearly so you can understand me.

Getting flagged for entering a pvp zone = ok.
Getting flagged for a smart heal hitting a flagged ally = bad.

The person Melo is quoting is actually doing just that actually.. arguing that main cities and pvp zones SHOULDN'T flag you.

[nightfalls]

If something is no longer current, and no longer necessary, by it's very definition becomes irrelevant to everyone but nostalgics and collectors. Blizz wants to move forward, and Wintergrasp is just antiquated.

He still hasn't responded to my post calling out his attitude. Flying over zone is one thing (a different topic).

As is, the "idea" behind flagging on PvE servers is the choice to attack other people who mark themselves for PvP and thus open yourself up. In reality, what actually happens is people flag with the Censer then since there is only one realistic way to get coins, they do it: They purposely position themselves to try to trick people into accidentally flagging on them, so (ostensibly having way more gear) they get a free coin.

Whether or not the "fat man" (avatar reference) is on his high horse or not is irrelevant. Whether or not the poor Censer-ganked person is in fact "stupid" or not is irrelevant. Whether or not the "fat man" is better than the "poor Censer-ganked person" or not is irrelevant.

What's relevant is that that's not the design intent of flagging.

[-Superman-]

He still hasn't responded to my post calling out his attitude. Flying over zone is one thing (a different topic).

As is, the "idea" behind flagging on PvE servers is the choice to attack other people who mark themselves for PvP and thus open yourself up. In reality, what actually happens is people flag with the Censer then since there is only one realistic way to get coins, they do it: They purposely position themselves to try to trick people into accidentally flagging on them, so (ostensibly having way more gear) they get a free coin.

Whether or not the "fat man" (avatar reference) is on his high horse or not is irrelevant. Whether or not the poor Censer-ganked person is in fact "stupid" or not is irrelevant. Whether or not the "fat man" is better than the "poor Censer-ganked person" or not is irrelevant.

What's relevant is that that's not the design intent of flagging.

Yeah, there are certain posters in this forum who enjoy picking a fight with an OP until someone smarter than them shows up. Then they keep going after the topic and never really responding to the smarter person. Doing so might prove they only have a slight clue, and would rather just pick a fight. Which, ironically makes them as bad as the pvpers we're talking about.

[Vongimi]

Griefers rolling on PvE realms makes about as much sense as Carebears rolling on PvP realms... Why do they even do it? (outside of not knowing when they first start)

I'll be glad when PvE realms have this feature. I play on a PvP realm because I like it, but I can see why people like not having to worry about enemy faction players.

[ringpriest]

If you want to play PvP, you roll on a PvP server.
If you want to play PvE, you roll on a PvE server.

There is absolutely no reason why anyone else should be allowed to dictate what I want to do with MY gaming time. If you don't like that, then I can't care.

Then go play a solo game, and quit whining about other people in your Massively Multiplayer game.

[-Superman-]

Then go play a solo game, and quit whining about other people in your Massively Multiplayer game.

No need. They are removing the PvP trigger from PvE realms so we don't have to deal with PvP asshats.

[Deathgoose]

The person Melo is quoting is actually doing just that actually.. arguing that main cities and pvp zones SHOULDN'T flag you.

In this thread, within the last few pages, they have actually rescinded their position on entering main cities, agreeing that part wasn't fully thought out. So to further say that is inaccurate.

As to the PvP zones, while they originally stated it in an easily misunderstood manner, they were referring to the PvP zones of old content, ala Wintergrasp. They were not referring to Ashran that will be in WoD.

At risk of putting words in their mouth, they are advocating Wintergrasp go more the route of Tol Barad. Neither side is auto flagged on the northern half, and the side that controls it can go onto the southern half without being flagged. Flagging (just like disabling flight) would then only occur during active matches.

I don't really care either way, as I haven't been back to WG since Wrath other than the fly over it on alts while leveling in Northrend, and so long as Ashran is out of the way, and not in the middle of the fucking continent like WG was (That was my only major complaint about it even in Wrath) then I won't care about that.

But it seemed some misinformation was being tossed out there.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

In this thread, within the last few pages, they have actually rescinded their position on entering main cities, agreeing that part wasn't fully thought out. So to further say that is inaccurate.

As to the PvP zones, while they originally stated it in an easily misunderstood manner, they were referring to the PvP zones of old content, ala Wintergrasp. They were not referring to Ashran that will be in WoD.

At risk of putting words in their mouth, they are advocating Wintergrasp go more the route of Tol Barad. Neither side is auto flagged on the northern half, and the side that controls it can go onto the southern half without being flagged. Flagging (just like disabling flight) would then only occur during active matches.

I don't really care either way, as I haven't been back to WG since Wrath other than the fly over it on alts while leveling in Northrend, and so long as Ashran is out of the way, and not in the middle of the fucking continent like WG was (That was my only major complaint about it even in Wrath) then I won't care about that.

But it seemed some misinformation was being tossed out there.

But the OP was arguing that Wg is "outdated" etc... obviously only because he doesn;t like it.. not because its actually an outdated design... which is further proven wrong by them reusing the idea for WoD.

I saw that he rescinded specifically about kill faction leaders.. but not about other things, such as ALL opposing faction NPCs.

[Scinder]

People complain way to much. In six years I can count on one hand the number of times that I have accidentally flagged myself on all of my characters combined. With openraid, cross-realm raiding I have been on PVP servers and have been ganked once. I had to afk to help the wife with something and I came back dead.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No need. They are removing the PvP trigger from PvE realms so we don't have to deal with PvP asshats.

His comment wasn't ONLY about pvp, it was an in general comment about what you do with your game time. The problem is THIS IS A MULTIPLAYER GAME, so you WON'T be able to just "do whatever you want" all the time. If you want un-affected game play, then a single player game is what you are looking for.

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Yeah, there are certain posters in this forum who enjoy picking a fight with an OP until someone smarter than them shows up. Then they keep going after the topic and never really responding to the smarter person. Doing so might prove they only have a slight clue, and would rather just pick a fight. Which, ironically makes them as bad as the pvpers we're talking about.

I'm not sure that I have really seen that happen in this thread, besides you ignoring others posts or just responding with insults/straw men.

[Orange Joe]

His comment wasn't ONLY about pvp, it was an in general comment about what you do with your game time. The problem is THIS IS A MULTIPLAYER GAME, so you WON'T be able to just "do whatever you want" all the time. If you want un-affected game play, then a single player game is what you are looking for.

He isn't wrong though. It is his game and you have no right to tell him how to play. If he wants to pvp it's his choice. If he wants to raid it is still his choice. If he wants to sit in the city and do nothing it is again his choice.


Interacting with other people =/= telling people how to play.



Blizzard made PVE server for people that don't want ANY random pvp to happen. If you have an issue with PVE servers don't play on them.

[Paula Deen]

PvP has it's place, and now, just like neutering Twinks, we can neuter griefers.

It funny you should mention this. Almost every time I see someone bitch about PvP.... they are on a PvP Server and got killed while doing PvP. They then say they were ganked. Just go check the forums its baffling how many idiots play on Tich and then bitch (heh it sort of rhymes) when they get killed. I welcome this change for PvE Servers, but if you really think this will change much you are mistaken. The same people will still bitch on the forums (seriously go look, its almost an exclusive thing to bitch about it if you are on a PvP Server) and the world will keep spinning.

[Deleted]

I don't see how that's griefing by any means. How do you accidentally flag yourself and get ganked?

Example: while fighting a tough elite on Timeless Isle, some PvP flagged dork comes to jump in front of you attempting to get hit by cleave effects, splash damage or your completely uncontrollable legendary cloak proc. And there you go.

[darkwarrior42]

But the OP was arguing that Wg is "outdated" etc... obviously only because he doesn;t like it.. not because its actually an outdated design... which is further proven wrong by them reusing the idea for WoD.

Wintergrasp is outdated, just as Serpentshrine Cavern is outdated. Saying Wintergrasp is outdated doesn't preclude Blizzard from doing PvP zones in the future anymore than saying SSC is outdated precludes Blizzard from doing raids in the future.

And just as SSC and other old raids have since been modified in light of their outdated status, I see nothing wrong with modifying Wintergrasp due to its own outdated status.

Saying that they shouldn't change Wintergrasp because they're doing Ashran in WoD would like arguing that they shouldn't have modified SSC and other older raids to be more easily soloed because they're doing new raids in WoD, and since those new raids won't be soloable on release none of the old raids should be soloable either.

[nightfalls]

Which, ironically makes them as bad as the pvpers we're talking about.

I am one of the "pvpers" who uses the Censer on a pve server and as I said unless I abuse x-realm zoning (which I have as well) realistically the only way for me to even try to grind coins for the achievements is to do the typical "asshole" thing: Trick people into clicking rares then nuking them.

My point is as "great" as we are, and as "stupid" as the "suckers" who click are, that's not the actual design. People are supposed to be "flaggable" as in they can flag if they actually want to fight and take a shot at killing me. The "flag" is not there so they can be tricked into it.

Right now, both the Censer and the flagging system are poorly designed. As I mentioned, one solution would be to allow a player every 10 minutes to get a coin from killing a Censer'ed person, that will not only allow easier coin farming for people who want to PvP, but also will give actual incentive to willfully flag yourself (and thus allow yourself to be ganked by other Censer people).