Page 10 of 13 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
11
12
... LastLast
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I just don't understand why people play Arms in Raids when Fury is almost always better and supposedly from all of the raid heroes, Fury has a much higher skill cap than Arms.
    Arms is only a little behind Fury single target and far outshines it when you have multiiple targets. Depending on your raid comp, Arms may very well be the best choice for a raiding warrior.

    With that bieng said, I completely agree that the changes made to arms in order to make it more PVE viable ended up breaking the spec for PVP. I don't understand why they didn't follow these buffs with PVP modifiers much like they did with the find weakness debuff from Sub rogue's. They were able to buff Sub Rogue's in order to make them more viable for PVE without breaking them in PVP. It would be nice if they could have done the same for Arms.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    Arms is only a little behind Fury single target and far outshines it when you have multiiple targets. Depending on your raid comp, Arms may very well be the best choice for a raiding warrior.
    This is not entirely true, but there are a few encounters which Arms can shine on yes. In near/full BiS, Arms is not too far behind Fury but it's much easier to do as Fury, and Fury is much burstier which is generally better, especially for progression.
    Arms excells at sustained damage but not burst. In most raiding situations it does not get the chance to put out that sustained damage unless 1) your raids DPS is severely unbalanced (ie: high dps warrior, low dps other raiders), or 2) your guild purposefully gimps its raid dps for the purposes of (usually) rankings. Arms excels at Cleave DPS but it needs to have high uptime and has very strict targeting requirements to push its potential dps.
    These two things don't generally happen very often. As is there are a scant handful of Warriors in the world playing Arms at a level that competes with Fury and that is very telling.

    With that bieng said, I completely agree that the changes made to arms in order to make it more PVE viable ended up breaking the spec for PVP. I don't understand why they didn't follow these buffs with PVP modifiers much like they did with the find weakness debuff from Sub rogue's. They were able to buff Sub Rogue's in order to make them more viable for PVE without breaking them in PVP. It would be nice if they could have done the same for Arms.
    This is pretty true, but Arms sorely needed its buffs and even those didn't help nearly as much as people might think. If its cost is a slight hamper to its ability to interrupt casters, I don't see that as a huge loss.

    As I said before though, I personally just don't think they went about it the best way. This is an argument that will never be won however.

  3. #183
    Deleted
    I like playing arms in pve from time to time, and I know alot of warriors preffer arms to fury but just dont play it because its usually not as good. It feels very refreshing to play a different spec and something I hope continues, ie that arms can situationally be better dps. Although arms single target is really quite dull, the aoe rotation feels good and that is the reason to play arms in the first place this tier.

    I was arms in t14 normals, before the tfb nerf and I liked that rotation where a big part of single target was managing tfb, which was engaging and rewarding. While tfb was totally op in pvp that was definately a pvp change that takes away from pve. Like somene said they dont care for pve, I dont care for pvp in wow so from that perspective we are going to place the blame on eachother.

    Afaik most warrior changes this expansion where pvp related. Leap nerf, shockwave, tfb etc. Most of which dont break the game pve wise but took away from the fun eigher way.

  4. #184
    I havent done any raids this patch but seriously? This needs an entire thread devoted to the most minor change EVER in the history of changes affecting pve? Is there no other class that has an interrupt, the warrior needs to have 2 or suddenly he's useless? O damn the 2 dks and 2 rogues in the raid have to use their interrupts now the warrior can only get one. The mage might actually have to use CS, lordy lord. The only thing I can think of is not being able to maintain rude interruption as easily since it doesn't work with disrupting shout even though interrupting on CD would still maintain it, but seriously. Overractions everywhere.

    10 pages no less. Looking through it seems to have devolved into a pvp vs. pve in class changes which I suppose was expected seeing the title.

    Afaik most warrior changes this expansion where pvp related. Leap nerf, shockwave, tfb etc. Most of which dont break the game pve wise but took away from the fun eigher way.
    Leap damage nerf was 100% pve. The damage is literally not even a thing for pvp; I wish it did no damage so it wouldn't break ccs. Shockwave, who outside of prot uses that in pve? When would you ever use it outside of multiple targets and getting the cd reduc anyway? TfB was broken; I remember seeing people in pve threads complaining about it too. People in general need to stop looking for things to complain about when they are so ridiculously minor for pve in comparison to gamechanging for pvp and vice versa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  5. #185
    Deleted
    Oh the irony. Posting in a thread complaining about the number of people posting in a thread complaining

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Shockwave, who outside of prot uses that in pve? When would you ever use it outside of multiple targets and getting the cd reduc anyway?
    When you're spec with Shockwave, you don't want to sit on your talen until there are 3+ adds, because even with 1-2 targets it's a dps increase and a stun.

    In CMs, it already happened that I used SW to aoe stun but one of the add died at the same moment, putting Shockwave on cd for the next pack. Not a big nerf, yes, I agree. But that makes the talent really clunky and less enjoyable as you have a lot of factor to consider before pushing the button (will I need it soon? Ok, have I three targets? Ok, are there all exactly in the cone? Ok.) They are able to make a talent act differently depending on the spec, they should have kept the 20s in prot spec and that would have been a far better fix.
    The problem with the new nerf is the same, it's very very clunky and not enjoyable. Again, in CM I will have to ask myself "do I need an aoe interrupt soon?" each time I want to kick a spell with a 1-target interrupt, which is really counter intuitive.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post

    Leap damage nerf was 100% pve. The damage is literally not even a thing for pvp; I wish it did no damage so it wouldn't break ccs. Shockwave, who outside of prot uses that in pve? When would you ever use it outside of multiple targets and getting the cd reduc anyway? TfB was broken; I remember seeing people in pve threads complaining about it too. People in general need to stop looking for things to complain about when they are so ridiculously minor for pve in comparison to gamechanging for pvp and vice versa.
    I am very certain that there was a lot of pvp related whine as well about hl hitting hard during cooldowns and being another off gcd ability. You might have missed that in the sea of pvp tears though.

  8. #188
    ya pvper's are the biggest cry babies. i hate when they blow up vent "man mages are BS", "omg hunters need a nerf!"

    have to leave channel all the time. im like, if you hate it so much why do it!?! sounds like you're getting owned in pissed off all the time

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by chewie49 View Post
    ya pvper's are the biggest cry babies. i hate when they blow up vent "man mages are BS", "omg hunters need a nerf!"

    have to leave channel all the time. im like, if you hate it so much why do it!?! sounds like you're getting owned in pissed off all the time
    I kinda hope thats sarcasm since this is a nearly 11 page thread about the most minor change to a class ever affecting pve. You seriously miss out on 1 pummel every 40 seconds using disrupting, thats 1 melee interrupt from 1 raid/party member every 40 seconds. Doesn't get more minor than that.

    I am very certain that there was a lot of pvp related whine as well about hl hitting hard during cooldowns and being another off gcd ability. You might have missed that in the sea of pvp tears though.
    You are correct; the damage was a thing back in the TfB and avatar root immunity and 20 sec cd on shockwave days (god how could they even let that stuff go live is beyond me). Except it was so minor compared to those other things that it wouldnt have affected pvp much if it had stayed while the others were nerfed. No blizz didn't want HL to be part of a warriors pve rotation as I remember them specifically saying.

    In CMs
    Ok I suppose in CMs these things affect pve a little more drastically. Except CMs are even smaller of a "minigame" as people like to call pvp. I would rather see a minor utility nerf for CMs (that from your post increases the skillcap of the warrior by making you think, not a bad thing) to balance a huge issue in pvp like 20 second shockwaves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    I kinda hope thats sarcasm since this is a nearly 11 page thread about the most minor change to a class ever affecting pve.
    Yeah right because there certainly were no posts from people being touched in a bad spot by warriors.

  11. #191
    I agree with the spirit of the poster that PvP and PvE need to be separated.
    Blizzard is already hypocritical in this regard saying "it's too cumbersome" or "players don't want to have to learn different skill sets", and yet there are abilities in the game right now that function quite differently in PvE and PvP.

    FFS Blizzard, just separate the two sides of the game so you can balance it fairly on both sides.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Yeah right because there certainly were no posts from people being touched in a bad spot by warriors.
    Its all about the degree to which it matters. Arena rep at the beginning of this season for warriors was like 35% of all players over 2k. Imagine a 25 man raid with 8 dps warriors, thats literally the degree with which they were overpowered/overrepresented. Of course there is going to be people complaining about warriors being too strong in pvp. A change like this which will most likely change 0 about pve raiding in any meaningful way is a nice fix for a warrior package that has too many tools for pvp especially in addition to poor gear scaling come next season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    I kinda hope thats sarcasm since this is a nearly 11 page thread about the most minor change to a class ever affecting pve. You seriously miss out on 1 pummel every 40 seconds using disrupting, thats 1 melee interrupt from 1 raid/party member every 40 seconds. Doesn't get more minor than that.
    I don't really mind that Disrupting Shout put Plummel on cd, tbh.
    What bothers me is that Plummel put Dirsupting Shout on cd. Basically, using a minor utility spell prevent you from using a major utility spell.
    That's clunky and counter intuitive. It damages the gameplay.

    Changes like this and the Shockwave one add up. On the long run, they make the gameplay more frustrating and less enjoyable.
    Obviously, these are not gamebreaking changes (well, people progressing on first transition phase of Garrosh HM won't like it at all, so it's not THAT minor, but still) but these are still bad changes. Not because they nerf but because they make bad band aid to fix pvp problem and which damage our pve gameplay.
    I really hope they will get this straight in WoD instad of keeping these stupid changes. I don't care if I'm nerf as long as it makes sense and it's well done.
    Last edited by Senen; 2014-02-13 at 12:14 AM.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    I don't really mind that Disrupting Shout put Plummel on cd, tbh.
    What bothers me is that Plummel put Dirsupting Shout on cd. Basically, using a minor utility spell prevent you from using a major utility spell.
    That's clunky and counter intuitive. It damages the gameplay.

    Changes like this and the Shockwave one add up. On the long run, they make the gameplay more frustrating and less enjoyable.
    Obviously, these are not gamebreaking changes (well, people progressing on first transition phase of Garrosh HM won't like it at all, so it's not THAT minor, but still) but these are still bad changes. Not because they nerf but because they make bad band aid to fix pvp problem and which damage our pve gameplay.
    I really hope they will get this straight in WoD instad of keeping these stupid changes. I don't care if I'm nerf as long as it makes sense and it's well done.
    I get what you are saying, but you have to look at it from a pvp angle too. I mean, these changes are very big things in pvp; the shockwave change especially. Warriors went from having a decent stun in throwdown in cata to having the best stun bar none in the game on the shortest cd which is something they definitely did not need. The change set it back to being decently balanced and allowed the other talents to be somewhat viable. That change, while affecting pve, doesnt do much; like I said how many people even spec shockwave? I'm guessing not many. It seems a purely pvp talent to me in comparison to bladestorm and DR.

    As for disrupting, I would be fine with it replacing pummel instead of being separate with maybe a slight increase on the cd like 5 seconds. So instead of 2 abilities that cause the CD of the other you get an aoe interrupt on a 20 second cd and thats it. That would still be reasonableish for pvp and probably even a buff for pve. But back to back interrupt ability is too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    I get what you are saying, but you have to look at it from a pvp angle too. I mean, these changes are very big things in pvp; the shockwave change especially. Warriors went from having a decent stun in throwdown in cata to having the best stun bar none in the game on the shortest cd which is something they definitely did not need. The change set it back to being decently balanced and allowed the other talents to be somewhat viable. That change, while affecting pve, doesnt do much; like I said how many people even spec shockwave? I'm guessing not many. It seems a purely pvp talent to me in comparison to bladestorm and DR.
    They could have made the "20s in prot spec, 40s in dps spec" change, which would have made far more sense, and not really "more complex".
    I don't see any problem with it in pvp. Flag barriers prot avoid the nerf bat, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    As for disrupting, I would be fine with it replacing pummel instead of being separate with maybe a slight increase on the cd like 5 seconds. So instead of 2 abilities that cause the CD of the other you get an aoe interrupt on a 20 second cd and thats it. That would still be reasonableish for pvp and probably even a buff for pve. But back to back interrupt ability is too much.
    The "Plummel becomes Disrupting shout, cooldown 20s" seems also perfect to me, maybe even 30s.
    It would still be a nerf in most situations, but it would be good in some situations (Garrosh, CMs, etc) and bad in some (Protectors, etc). So, that makes speccing into it a choice with pro and cons, but while you've spec for it, it works fine, no clunky gameplay.
    There would remain the "why nerf the only talent interesting in pve in lvl45-tier?" question, but I guess this tier will be changed in WoD anyway, it's too meaningless right now in pve.

  16. #196
    With all the mobility and CC a Warrior has, it didn't make a lot of sense for them to have twice as many interrupts as other classes. More cast-control for Warriors made sense maybe before they became essentially immune to kiting (amusing).

    Also, this thread is hilarious. The self-righteous who think nuking people down on Timeless Isle gives them some justification to dictate PvP changes is silly.

  17. #197
    Hang on. I just realised something... People still PvP on WoW? Why? There are a plethora of better games that either stimulate 1v1 play, or team play. WoW PvP has and always will be complete shit when compared to other games. On it's own, it's decent, but has so many drawbacks it's not even funny. Let alone the balancing fiasco they try to pull out of their asses every patch.

    Warrior is the most nerfed/buffed class IMO in PvP. So many retarded changes just in the last year that make dragonslayers less powerful. Remember shockwave nerf? It's annoying as fuck when 5% of the time you don't get it refreshed on fights like Galakras H (not that it's hard or impossible without it). Arms has been completely gutted patch after patch after patch and these scrub 1500 rating baddies think their opinion matters. They need to make it like LoL where they balance things around the best players, not baddies trying to cap.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I just don't understand why people play Arms in Raids when Fury is almost always better and supposedly from all of the raid heroes, Fury has a much higher skill cap than Arms.
    Because fuck PVP that's why. I'll play what I enjoy, not what makes your collection of assumptions work out.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    I'll play what I enjoy, not what makes your collection of assumptions work out.
    I bet your raidleader loves you.

  20. #200
    I'm not sure why someone wouldn't play Arms if that's what they enjoy playing. I can assure you that a good Arms warrior will wreck almost all the Fury warriors in the world.
    My Stream
    NollTvåTre Looking for Raiders

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •