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  1. #301
    Pandaren Monk jugzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Would you be so kind to point out the links, facts, or well expressed theories provided by skroesec in this thread?
    Like I said earlier about the elementary level response.

  2. #302
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    His posts aren't mainstream. If his posts were mainstream, Henry Kissinger would be the most popular political figure in the States. Because that is what Skroe is, hes Kissinger incarnate. I happen to be of the same school of thought.

    Please though, don't pretend like youre amused, or say you find Skroe's posts entertaining because he is so stupid. I think most people see through that, you aren't really laughing. You are uncomfortable hearing about a strong US foreign policy. That isn't laughter from amusement, those are little giggles of nervousness.
    .... Is this conversation happening between you two for real or are you guys rehearsing a play?

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    Like I said earlier about the elementary level response.
    You are sadly failing at the same level though and so am I for calling it out now, you monster!

  4. #304
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    Like I said earlier about the elementary level response.
    Are you here for flamebaiting only or will you answer a very simple, direct question?

  5. #305
    well those bad manners of americans are well known i dont give a F what a wannbe politican said about the EU you you ppl should also not give a F. politics is basicly all like kindergaden but with grown adults thats how it is and will be for many many many many many many many many many many many many years to come
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  6. #306
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    His posts aren't mainstream. If his posts were mainstream, Henry Kissinger would be the most popular political figure in the States. Because that is what Skroe is, hes Kissinger incarnate. I happen to be of the same school of thought.

    Please though, don't pretend like youre amused, or say you find Skroe's posts entertaining because he is so stupid. I think most people see through that, you aren't really laughing. You are uncomfortable hearing about a strong US foreign policy. That isn't laughter from amusement, those are little giggles of nervousness.
    Well thank fuck for that. I can only imagine how pretty this world would be if someone that thinks everything outside his own country is fodder ready to be conquered could be considered "mainstream".
    Last edited by mmocea043e1e13; 2014-02-08 at 01:38 AM.

  7. #307
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    This is fucking gold. Thank you. I love how they are talking so nonchalant about it.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  8. #308
    Pandaren Monk jugzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    Are you here for flamebaiting only or will you answer a very simple, direct question?
    The answer is yes. If you had actually asked a simple, direct question, that should clear things up no?

    I'm not going to spend 15 minutes copying and pasting things you could read and dismiss outright again.

    edit: how many times are you going to reply to my post comparing Skroe to Kissinger, I would have thought once per person would be enough
    Last edited by jugzilla; 2014-02-08 at 01:30 AM.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    The answer is yes. If you had actually asked a simple, direct question, that should clear things up no?

    I'm not going to spend 15 minutes copying and pasting things you could read and dismiss outright again.
    What is this? Is this the scent of surrender?

    "Since I can't make a point, I won't even try" is not very effective in discussions.

  10. #310
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    The answer is yes. If you had actually asked a simple, direct question, that should clear things up no?

    I'm not going to spend 15 minutes copying and pasting things you could read and dismiss outright again.
    Then you're free to kindly clear off and come back when you have something to offer and discuss.
    Don't insult us with your silly flamebaiting.
    Thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post
    What is this? Is this the scent of surrender?

    "Since I can't make a point, I won't even try" is not very effective in discussions.
    The funny thing is that I actually pointed out what I thought was faulty in those twisted theory just a few posts back.
    All he needs to do is to simply reply to my post.
    *shrug*

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalian View Post
    The most shocking part of this was that our "wonderful" ambassador actually thought her phone calls were private and not being tapped.

    Oh, and LOL at all the anti-US comments. So many people complain about US intervention...until a natural disaster hits, or starvation sets in, or there's an epidemic, or they need their abusive dictator tossed...then everyone complains if the US isn't the first there and giving the most.

    EDIT:
    I want to point out the irony here.

    Victoria Nuland was the same person who sent out a memo, right after the first draft of the State Dept Benghazi talking points, that said they "could be abused by members of Congress to beat the State Department for not paying attention to agency warnings so why would we want to seed the Hill."

    For someone so worried about covering the State Dept she really let it flap in the wind here.
    Last edited by Twotonsteak; 2014-02-10 at 05:14 AM.

  12. #312
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    The most shocking part of this was that our "wonderful" ambassador actually thought her phone calls were private and not being tapped.

    Oh, and LOL at all the anti-US comments. So many people complain about US intervention...until a natural disaster hits, or starvation sets in, or there's an epidemic, or they need their abusive dictator tossed...then everyone complains if the US isn't the first there and giving the most.
    How can you compare "humanitarian aid" to "meddling with the internal affairs of a sovereign country"?

  13. #313
    I'm sure shes annoyed with the EU. They've had every opportunity over the years to pull Ukraine away from Russia and into the western sphere. The EU (not individual countries) doesn't seem capable of executing any independent foreign policy with any real strategic significance.

    I'm not going to fault her for making an off the cuff remark in a private conversation. But i will for practicing sloppy tradecraft. Using a non-secure phone? In russia's backyard?* Terrible.
    Last edited by Olo; 2014-02-08 at 03:20 AM.

  14. #314
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    If an extremely powerful country provides support for a chosen candidate, then the chances are that candidate will get in. Money wins elections and has an annoying tendency to make the receiver somewhat biased in future decison making.

    In the moral battle that is extremely important to voters, Russia has shown the US are trying to instal what is effectively a puppet government. Not sure why Russia thinks they look good in that, as they aren't even hiding their attempts to achieve the same thing.
    You can't compare Russia with America, Ukraine is the birthplace of Russia, half the country speaks Russian, see themselves as Russian or closely linked. Russian black sea fleet is stationed in Crimea, a region that is majority Russian. It's also the south n east of the country, where people are pro-Russian that produce 90% of the economy and the country's biggest trading partner is Russia. To count Russia out would be retarded, but what is US stake? To drive a wedge, to expand US hegemony across the world, especially against powerful countries it sees as competition.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Olo View Post
    I'm sure shes annoyed with the EU. They've had every opportunity over the years to pull Ukraine away from Russia and into the western sphere. The EU (not individual countries) doesn't seem capable of executing any independent foreign policy with any real strategic significance.
    Hard for you to pay attention? How has the EU economy fared these couple of years? Not everyone wants to print money out of nothing and create endless debt like the US. Yeah, you have "money" then how come you can't pay ur debts?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    The most shocking part of this was that our "wonderful" ambassador actually thought her phone calls were private and not being tapped.
    Not true, she knows NSA spies on her, but since they are on the same page, it's cool in her book.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    His posts aren't mainstream. If his posts were mainstream, Henry Kissinger would be the most popular political figure in the States. Because that is what Skroe is, hes Kissinger incarnate. I happen to be of the same school of thought.
    I don't think you know anything about Kissinger, he opened up to China, something I don't see you two one-track mind zealots capable of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatlatitla View Post
    I read his whole posts (ye they are long), because of entertainment they provide. His opinion = mainstream BS I hear from TV, News etc. so nothing new, but the zeal he defends his country with and how much he believes in what he posts keeps me amused.


    Like I wrote before, he's an armchair RTS warrior mentality

    Last edited by mmocced9c7d33d; 2014-02-08 at 12:55 PM.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    Skroesec has his faults, but being brainwashed is not one of them. I think his greatest fault is putting in so much effort in his posts, providing links, facts, and well thought out theories, and 90% of his audience isn't going to read it anyway, or simply respond to in an elementary fashion. Like you. and...your avatar is USSR flag. Dude that is so 1950s.
    Sorry, his theories are not well thought out. They're pulled out of his arse pretty much and reflect his ignorance on internal EU matters and global politics. He's probably not one of the Americans placing Europe on the African continent, but he's definitely not far off.

  16. #316
    High Overlord
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    Hey America keep your opinions to yourself, if i look at you the only thing i see right now is massive debt and money with no value...

    Everyone should put his own house in order first.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by jugzilla View Post
    Skroesec has his faults, but being brainwashed is not one of them. I think his greatest fault is putting in so much effort in his posts, providing links, facts, and well thought out theories, and 90% of his audience isn't going to read it anyway, or simply respond to in an elementary fashion. Like you. and...your avatar is USSR flag. Dude that is so 1950s.
    I really appreciate the compliment

    I've been writing like this for a long time. It's a hobby really. Foreign policy is my big hobby (along with WoW obviously). There have been times in my life I read about it more than I do works in my profession (computer science). Forums like this have long been wonderful for me, because they give me a chance to talk about what I read, sometimes to educate, sometimes to just present a more reasoned perspective than the frothing at the mouth so common on the internet.

    I know exactly what those folks above are. The first time I really encountered them was not long after 9/11, when I was 18 years old and first came across obnoxious teenagers from Switzerland or some other rich country on the Guardian's CiF board saying they hoped that US Soldiers in Afghanistan found a suicide bomber in every house. Being a teenager with ass for life experience, that pissed me off naturally.

    In the years since, board to board, I've grown to understand exactly where they are coming from. I know what they represent. I know how groundless their positions ultimately are. For all their frothing, the irony is that nothing new or original against US foreign policy has been uttered by anyone since 2004.

    Some, like Hatlatitla, clearly blame the US for their personal or national troubles.

    Others, like Cybran, subscribe to such a widespread set of counterfactual, mostly baseless or extremist beliefs, that their reflexive anti-Americanism is actually the least interesting thing about them.

    Some, are hopeless utopians and view the US as an obstacle. They think that everyone minding their own business would lead to world peace, because they honestly think countries can honestly agree to non-interference as a principle and stick to it. This also includes folks who want the United Federation of Planets to be a real thing.

    The biggest source of these folks comes from the reach of US policy - in many ways between economics and foreign policy, it effects them as much as their national governments policies, but they have no vote over it, thus bringing about resentment.

    Some, none, or all of this applies to different folks, here and on other boards. People have their own motivations. But you've correctly identified the difference between them and me: I identify with one of the two main American schools of International relations theory, (neo)realism (in contrast to (neo)liberalism), so my positions have a philosophical basis. Those people above, they mostly just have a list of things they dislike and a list of things they like. That's really not good enough, especially when formulating policy.

    The point isn't ever to "win" with them. I'm a good 10 years past that mattering in my excitation of this hobby. I honestly don't ever expect someone as thoroughly and comprehensively intellectually dishonest as Djalil, or the dozens people exactly like him I've engaged with over the years to ever say "you're right Skroesec". If one person reads it, and it makes them think, that's good enough for me. Hell, in writing them, often times I learn things too, so it's immensely satisfying (indeed, if it wasn't, why do it at all?). This thread in particular has been my favorite thread in months. It's like Christmas to me. It's all my favorite topics rolled into one.

    But I know exactly how this goes and I havent met a single person in ages that has phased me with this stuff. Obnoxiousness is always annoying, but i mostly pretend it isn't there and provide an answer, so when Americans and more open and fair minded non-Americans read what I have provided, they have a more full perspective. I'm very hard on America too, as other threads show. European single-payer style health care is the only way to go. The ESA's $5 billion budget is making an utter mockery out of NASA's $17 billion. The French limits on campaign finance (and political campaigns in general) is some of my favorite policies in the entire world and would single handedly fix most of what is wrong with the US political system.

    But when it comes to foreign policy, I know exactly what the United States is and where it lies in the world: the world's only superpower with a unequalled reach, resources, and professionalism, but extraordinarily clumsy, impatient and utterly without much in the way of Grand Strategy, in a world where every two-bit President and Prime minister is all to eager to describe their nations as a <Insert Blank> superpower (i.e. "Hockey Superpower", "Coal Superpower", "Fishing Superpower"). The world is utterly anarchic, and hopelessly corrupt. Internationalism is utterly ineffective and its rare success is the exception, rather than the rule. The 193 states of the world, the only true power that there is, are inherently aggressive, and the best defense against that is offense. By us. By any country that wants to protect itself from everyone else's predatory nature. Putting that perspective out there to educate is entirely worth the effort.

  18. #318
    Deleted
    HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    Infracted - please post constructively
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-02-08 at 05:13 PM.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Flura View Post
    Hey America keep your opinions to yourself, if i look at you the only thing i see right now is massive debt and money with no value...

    Everyone should put his own house in order first.
    Case in point ^

    Austria. I'm sure Flura has known hard times in one of the richest countries in Europe and one of the highest HDIs in the world.

    Massive debt? American public debt is 72.5% of GDP.
    http://www.indexmundi.com/united_sta...blic_debt.html

    Austria? 73.4% of GDP
    http://www.indexmundi.com/austria/public_debt.html


    So in fact, as a function of GDP (which is what matters) Austria has more public debt than the US.

    Chances Flura knew this before their pointless and factually incorrect snipe? Zero.

    People say things like this, with such bile, from places like Vienna. It's hysterical to me.

  20. #320
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    I really appreciate the compliment

    I've been writing like this for a long time. It's a hobby really. Foreign policy is my big hobby (along with WoW obviously). There have been times in my life I read about it more than I do works in my profession (computer science). Forums like this have long been wonderful for me, because they give me a chance to talk about what I read, sometimes to educate, sometimes to just present a more reasoned perspective than the frothing at the mouth so common on the internet.

    I know exactly what those folks above are. The first time I really encountered them was not long after 9/11, when I was 18 years old and first came across obnoxious teenagers from Switzerland or some other rich country on the Guardian's CiF board saying they hoped that US Soldiers in Afghanistan found a suicide bomber in every house. Being a teenager with ass for life experience, that pissed me off naturally.

    In the years since, board to board, I've grown to understand exactly where they are coming from. I know what they represent. I know how groundless their positions ultimately are. For all their frothing, the irony is that nothing new or original against US foreign policy has been uttered by anyone since 2004.

    Some, like Hatlatitla, clearly blame the US for their personal or national troubles.

    Others, like Cybran, subscribe to such a widespread set of counterfactual, mostly baseless or extremist beliefs, that their reflexive anti-Americanism is actually the least interesting thing about them.

    Some, are hopeless utopians and view the US as an obstacle. They think that everyone minding their own business would lead to world peace, because they honestly think countries can honestly agree to non-interference as a principle and stick to it. This also includes folks who want the United Federation of Planets to be a real thing.

    The biggest source of these folks comes from the reach of US policy - in many ways between economics and foreign policy, it effects them as much as their national governments policies, but they have no vote over it, thus bringing about resentment.

    Some, none, or all of this applies to different folks, here and on other boards. People have their own motivations. But you've correctly identified the difference between them and me: I identify with one of the two main American schools of International relations theory, (neo)realism (in contrast to (neo)liberalism), so my positions have a philosophical basis. Those people above, they mostly just have a list of things they dislike and a list of things they like. That's really not good enough, especially when formulating policy.

    The point isn't ever to "win" with them. I'm a good 10 years past that mattering in my excitation of this hobby. I honestly don't ever expect someone as thoroughly and comprehensively intellectually dishonest as Djalil, or the dozens people exactly like him I've engaged with over the years to ever say "you're right Skroesec". If one person reads it, and it makes them think, that's good enough for me. Hell, in writing them, often times I learn things too, so it's immensely satisfying (indeed, if it wasn't, why do it at all?). This thread in particular has been my favorite thread in months. It's like Christmas to me. It's all my favorite topics rolled into one.

    But I know exactly how this goes and I havent met a single person in ages that has phased me with this stuff. Obnoxiousness is always annoying, but i mostly pretend it isn't there and provide an answer, so when Americans and more open and fair minded non-Americans read what I have provided, they have a more full perspective. I'm very hard on America too, as other threads show. European single-payer style health care is the only way to go. The ESA's $5 billion budget is making an utter mockery out of NASA's $17 billion. The French limits on campaign finance (and political campaigns in general) is some of my favorite policies in the entire world and would single handedly fix most of what is wrong with the US political system.

    But when it comes to foreign policy, I know exactly what the United States is and where it lies in the world: the world's only superpower with a unequalled reach, resources, and professionalism, but extraordinarily clumsy, impatient and utterly without much in the way of Grand Strategy, in a world where every two-bit President and Prime minister is all to eager to describe their nations as a <Insert Blank> superpower (i.e. "Hockey Superpower", "Coal Superpower", "Fishing Superpower"). The world is utterly anarchic, and hopelessly corrupt. Internationalism is utterly ineffective and its rare success is the exception, rather than the rule. The 193 states of the world, the only true power that there is, are inherently aggressive, and the best defense against that is offense. By us. By any country that wants to protect itself from everyone else's predatory nature. Putting that perspective out there to educate is entirely worth the effort.
    Ahahah.
    "How to talk my way out of the bullshit I've said"
    By skroesec.
    So much rant, and still you have been called out on all your bullshit but hey. You're right, we're all rich Swiss kids. Well spotted skro. You're certainly a man of the world.

    Infracted - please post constructively
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2014-02-08 at 05:14 PM.

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