Old vs New Generations: Orc

[BreakerofAzeroth]

Which generation had the best of the best
Durotan, Grom, Varok, and Kilrogg vs Thrall, Garrosh, Dranosh and Jorin

[Raugnaut]

... Who is Jorin?

Garrosh takes away SO many points that the Old generation is significantly better then the new generation.

[Deleted]

Before the retcon, the orcs were really just the standard bad guy aliens who invaded Azeroth. While it'd be more 1 dimensional, I wouldn't really mind if the orcs/The Horde were more evil and just straight up the villains of Warcraft.

[Wildberry]

Old heroes, you know, before WoD completely Blackwashes all of the old heroes of the past (Kilrogg and Grom specifically.)

[Aquamonkey]

... Who is Jorin?

Son of Kilrogg. He's with the Mag'har.

[checking facts]

both generations were bad and they should feel bad.

[MrKnubbles]

I don't know much about the old heroes... yet!

[Wyrt]

Um, the old orcs were far from heroes.

[The Madgod]

Um, the old orcs were far from heroes.

Yeeaaaaah. Grom was basically reasonable AFTER the first and second wars and that's when we really got to know him. Kilrogg I don't know as well but I don't think he was that much of a good guy either. More neutral than anything. Rather ruthless too if memory serves. The rest were either neutraly or really really bad, with Durotan and to a lesser extent, Ner'zhul (definitely prior to Kil'jaeden's interference he was good) being the exception.

The orcs called these people "heroes" for their achievements in war, not because they were truly heroic.

[Wildberry]

Yeeaaaaah. Grom was basically reasonable AFTER the first and second wars and that's when we really got to know him. Kilrogg I don't know as well but I don't think he was that much of a good guy either. More neutral than anything. Rather ruthless too if memory serves. The rest were either neutraly or really really bad, with Durotan and to a lesser extent, Ner'zhul (definitely prior to Kil'jaeden's interference he was good) being the exception.

The orcs called these people "heroes" for their achievements in war, not because they were truly heroic.

Kilrogg nodded. For a second he eyed the Horde warchief, and when he spoke it was more softly than Doomhammer had ever heard the grizzled old chieftan. "You made the right choice," Kilrogg assured him. "I too know the depths of Gul'dan's treachery. He would have taken us back to the days before the Portal opened, when we were nearly mad with rage, and hunger, and desperation." He nodded. "Whatever else happens, you have given our people back their honor."
Doomhammer nodded back, feeling a sudden respect and even affection for the one-eyed chieftan he had always feared and disliked. He had always considered Kilrogg a brutish, savage warrior, more interested in glory than honor. Perhaps he had been wrong all these years.

-Tides of Darkness (Kilrogg and Doomhammer at Khaz-Modan, following the failed siege of Capital City, due to Gul'dan's betrayal. Kilrogg was the only Orc to agree with Doomhammer's decision to throw the siege, in an attempt to bring justice to Gul'dan.)

I would say that places Kilrogg in the "Good Guy" camp

[Deleted]

-Tides of Darkness (Kilrogg and Doomhammer at Khaz-Modan, following the failed siege of Capital City, due to Gul'dan's betrayal. Kilrogg was the only Orc to agree with Doomhammer's decision to throw the siege, in an attempt to bring justice to Gul'dan.)

I would say that places Kilrogg in the "Good Guy" camp

Yeah, when Danath Trollbane slew Kilrogg he was surprised by how honourably the Orc fought and died. He was a pretty cool guy which is more than can be said for Doomhammer if the "ganged up on Anduin Lothar with several other Orcs" rumours are true.

[Aquamonkey]

He was a pretty cool guy which is more than can be said for Doomhammer if the "ganged up on Anduin Lothar with several other Orcs" rumours are true.

Was retconned by the novel. It was 1v1 combat.

Similarly, it was retconned that Doomhammer beat Blackhand in 1v1 combat (Mak'gora).

[Deleted]

Was retconned by the novel. It was 1v1 combat.

Similarly, it was retconned that Doomhammer beat Blackhand in 1v1 combat (Mak'gora).

Seriously? Why is he even called "the backstabber" if both of his most infamous bits of dickery never happened?

Or is he not?

[Sky High]

obviously when we had a real Warchief (Doomhammer) and badass murder machines for heroes.

[Xalzel]

Old Heroes for every Faction. Anduin Lothar > any human Blizzard will ever make.

[BreakerofAzeroth]

Old Heroes for every Faction. Anduin Lothar > any human Blizzard will ever make.

How did you know what i was going to do next?

[The Madgod]

-Tides of Darkness (Kilrogg and Doomhammer at Khaz-Modan, following the failed siege of Capital City, due to Gul'dan's betrayal. Kilrogg was the only Orc to agree with Doomhammer's decision to throw the siege, in an attempt to bring justice to Gul'dan.)

I would say that places Kilrogg in the "Good Guy" camp

In the same sense as Grom was after the wars though. They hadn't happened. Experience hadn't necessarily tempered him to be like that just yet. Like I said I'm not 100% about Kilrogg but the stuff I remember from prior to the First and Second wars seems rather neutral to dark. Not really heroic.

[Wildberry]

In the same sense as Grom was after the wars though. They hadn't happened. Experience hadn't necessarily tempered him to be like that just yet. Like I said I'm not 100% about Kilrogg but the stuff I remember from prior to the First and Second wars seems rather neutral to dark. Not really heroic.

That passage implies that Kilrogg was always rather honorable. Maybe not Heroic in the sense of Anduin Lothar, but then again, is the Horde really supposed to be heroic in the sense of Lothar?

[The Madgod]

That passage implies that Kilrogg was always rather honorable. Maybe not Heroic in the sense of Anduin Lothar, but then again, is the Horde really supposed to be heroic in the sense of Lothar?

I don't think so. I think it's hindsight and regret of past actions more than anything.

Yeah, that's by and large true. Even so, a lot of these heroes are rather questionable and have done rather questionable things.

[BreakerofAzeroth]

Seriously? Why is he even called "the backstabber" if both of his most infamous bits of dickery never happened?

Or is he not?

He got the name from gul'dan and his loyalist after he betrayed them.