WoD and casting while moving

[Sqeen]

using every offensive ability on the move is THE hunter perk for me so I would probably switch back to a melee if they require some spells to stand still

[Moonbow]

Trying to screw with hunters, oh god!

[Kaeth]

Just give us back sniper training:

Seconded.

Rather than removing the mobile ranged dps niche that this otherwise mediocre class (in PvE, anyway) presently fills, just reward us for making the effort to stand still for extended periods. Movement penalizes dps in both PvE and PvP without crippling resource generation (especially in PvP).

Sniper Training wouldn't be a half-bad level-100 talent.

[Deleted]

Sniper Training wouldn't be a half-bad level-100 talent.

Snipe has the very same reasoning behind. Something like that needs to be baseline imo.

[GoKs]

I like being able to move and dps, cant see why it is wrong. Would understand why ppl would complain if we were OP like locks while being able to move, but we arent so it is something nice to have. Dont think they should make Snipe baseline, just because we should be able to play the way we want it is fine as a talent, either you chose it or you dont, it will differ from person to person. (Dont get me wrong, I am not at all saying that hunters being able to move and dps justify the current state we are in, I am just saying that it is a nice to have).

[Deleted]

the thing is, even in a scenario where Cobra Shot and Steady shot are turned back to static casts, you can deal 99% of your damage on the move, but now you need to anticipate movement needs just a bit. But that small change would rapidly increase the skill gap between mediocre and average/good players. Thats what the class needs, imo. As said earlier, we are balanced around our movement, the rest of the classes are not. Thats why in actual fights for this tier and formers too, hunters fall behind almost every other ranged class, because personal skill, coupled with extra tools outweights movement requeriments, and pretty much negates its effect.
The key is, if other classes and specs have tools/mechanics to overcome their weaknesses, being one of them movement, be it talents (locks), glyphs or baseline abilities (ele shaman), alternative spells (scorch for mages, fel flame for locks without KJC,) or passives/proccs (Starsurge proccs for boomkins, lava surge proccs for ele shamans), we should have tools to overcome our weaknesses - such as being balanced around total movement - which in actual bosses means being weaker when movement becomes trivial. Snipe or any Sniper Training kind of mechanic could fill that role, closing the gap with other casters when movement is trivial, and giving good hunters a tool to clearly outperform worse hunters when you can minimize movement and maximize this perk's benefits.

It is ok to be a full mobile class.
It is ok to be somehow competitive while being a full mobile class.
It is NOT ok to be balanced around this perk at every game level.
It is NOT ok to lack any design depth (lower skill cap overall) just because we are the only "full mobile ranged class".

[Orcindauh]

I feel as we are going to be the exact same we are now with 1 exception. Snipe, the new level 100 talent. We have an option to trade cobra/steady shot with an ability that does more damage at the price on not being able to move while casting it.

It makes sense really. Sort of kind of similar to the 90 lock talents, trade some of your mobility for more damage.

[GoKs]

the thing is, even in a scenario where Cobra Shot and Steady shot are turned back to static casts, you can deal 99% of your damage on the move, but now you need to anticipate movement needs just a bit. But that small change would rapidly increase the skill gap between mediocre and average/good players. Thats what the class needs, imo. As said earlier, we are balanced around our movement, the rest of the classes are not. Thats why in actual fights for this tier and formers too, hunters fall behind almost every other ranged class, because personal skill, coupled with extra tools outweights movement requeriments, and pretty much negates its effect.
The key is, if other classes and specs have tools/mechanics to overcome their weaknesses, being one of them movement, be it talents (locks), glyphs or baseline abilities (ele shaman), alternative spells (scorch for mages, fel flame for locks without KJC,) or passives/proccs (Starsurge proccs for boomkins, lava surge proccs for ele shamans), we should have tools to overcome our weaknesses - such as being balanced around total movement - which in actual bosses means being weaker when movement becomes trivial. Snipe or any Sniper Training kind of mechanic could fill that role, closing the gap with other casters when movement is trivial, and giving good hunters a tool to clearly outperform worse hunters when you can minimize movement and maximize this perk's benefits.

It is ok to be a full mobile class.
It is ok to be somehow competitive while being a full mobile class.
It is NOT ok to be balanced around this perk at every game level.
It is NOT ok to lack any design depth (lower skill cap overall) just because we are the only "full mobile ranged class".

The problem with that is gonna be OP hunters in the High skill groups and useless hunters in the lower skill groups. The community will only look at the high numbers again and cry for hunter nerfs, which our dear friends at Blizzard would be all to happy to give to them, resulting in mediocre dmg at high skill levels and utter shit dmg at lower skill level.
And at the end of progress.... guess what??
Yes you got it! Surprise Hunters here is a 10% AoTH buff to help with your dps =P

[Deleted]

The problem with that is gonna be OP hunters in the High skill groups and useless hunters in the lower skill groups. The community will only look at the high numbers again and cry for hunter nerfs, which our dear friends at Blizzard would be all to happy to give to them, resulting in mediocre dmg at high skill levels and utter shit dmg at lower skill level.
And at the end of progress.... guess what??
Yes you got it! Surprise Hunters here is a 10% AoTH buff to help with your dps =P

On the contrary, blizzard balances classes around the majority, neither the bottom nor the top. Thats why hunters are mediocre, because the average joe with a hunter will do easily 10-15% more damage than the average peter with a warlock or mage, just because the movement perks. Good players deserve the CHANCE to outperform other classes if player properly (the same for other classes, which deserve the chance to outperform hunters if played better), the same way other pures can. On the other end, bad players deserve to perform badly, aswell as the chance to improve steadily as they grow as players.

[Kaeth]

Snipe has the very same reasoning behind. Something like that needs to be baseline imo.

The problem with Snipe is that, while it rewards smart stick-and-move gameplay with higher damage, it does so simply by replacing Cobra and Steady Shot with the old immobile versions of themselves that screw over resource regeneration in PvP as well as in high-movement fights in PvE.

Sniper Training would reward careful management of your movement and positioning without penalizing resource regeneration when you do unexpectedly have to move due to RNG (raid boss) or an arms warrior focusing your face. Snipe is just a return to the Aspect Fox days ... without Aspect of the Fox.

[Alanar]

With or without casting while moving won't make a too big of a difference when all of our spells are instant, and they'd probably add something like Aspect of the Fox, which isn't really that big of a deal DPS-wise.

I like being able to move and dps all the time, but I don't really care either way.

They said they want to get rid of to much instant casts.. as for hunters.. I think this class will never lose the ability to move while dpsing it's sad but how the f would you compensate hunter with that loss?..

Additional nerfs to hunters incoming in Wod, trust me.

[Deleted]

They said they want to get rid of to much instant casts.. as for hunters.. I think this class will never lose the ability to move while dpsing it's sad but how the f would you compensate hunter with that loss?

The same way they compensate other classes: making their other abilities hit harder.

[Deleted]

They said they want to get rid of to much instant casts.. as for hunters.. I think this class will never lose the ability to move while dpsing it's sad but how the f would you compensate hunter with that loss?..

Additional nerfs to hunters incoming in Wod, trust me.

i really hope that the reference of getting rid of movement really gous for the other classes and not the one tha is supposed to be its niche.....although i really dont get what the proble is with our movement ....if they remove the movement from everyone else they souldnt even put something like sniper training back and just let us do our thing

[eschatological]

I happen to think being able to DPS while moving is a higher skillcap. Moving out of shit isn't difficult. DPSing while stationary isn't difficult. Combining the two requires higher skill, in general. Granted, on hunters, that hasn't been true this expansion, but I think adding a sniper training buff or a fox-like penalty while moving on cast time shots is adequate.

I *do not* think they should get rid of things like baseline lightning bolt while casting for ele shamans. KJC where it is now (filler spells only) is pretty good. Mage could even use a bit more filler they can cast on the move. The point is, fights were boring when you had to move, and couldn't do anything while you were moving. It was just....6s running, then 20s turreting the boss.....6s running, 20s turreting the boss. Boring.

But of course, this does put melee at a disadvantage. To me, the traditional dichotomy of ranged vs. melee was: immobile but able to switch targets/avoid damage easier, vs. very mobile, instant casts, but harder to switch targets and harder to avoid damage. Over the years, immobility has gone away to a large extent on ranged, but they can still switch targets better and avoid damage easier than melee, even though melee have gotten buffs in all those areas. To me, the answer might be to buff melee mobility insanely....no-CD shadowsteps (in PvE at least), no-CD charges, something for DKs, geez, no-CD, no-cost sprint for ret....etc, and then also somewhat buff melee ability to DPS from ranged while switching targets. Shuriken toss is an example, a CP builder from range that's less damage than a melee ability but overall more damage than nothing. Melee in general should have tools which don't penalize them on fights where mobs are far apart. I understand that makes them a bit homogenized, but idk. That ups melee skill cap (IE, they have to DPS while moving to their new targets, or switch smartly with their shadowsteps/charges), while not dumbing down ranged back to turret specs.

I feel most excited as a melee on my warrior, where I can leap, charge every 12s, intervene to someone else who is close to the mob, etc, constantly. I don't think it's too gamebreaking to allow that for all melee.

[Deleted]

"We like mobility as the Hunter's "niche". I won't guarantee you'll still be able to do 100% of your rotation on the move, but we want to try to keep what we can there. It's something we're likely to do a lot of iteration on."

10 character