Best Loot Distribution System?

[Avallon]

Our guild is transitioning from becoming a 10-main heroic progression guild, toward recruiting for 20 man raiding. As we dive deeper into heroics, and as our roster begins to grow from 10 to 20 raiders, we can no longer continue with a /roll system.

I have raided for eight years, and have used everything from DKP zero sum, to a DKP bidding system, to an EPGP system.

Frankly, I am in favor of EPGP, but the system can become quite the headache to manage. Was wondering what loot distribution system you raiders use for your raids, and if you could answer the following:

1) What system do you use?
2) What are the pros?
3) What are the cons?
4) Any additional comments, loopholes, issues with the system

[Fiana]

Council loot obviously...

epgp if no one in your guild is smart enough to do the loot distribution properly.

[Babylucifer]

We use the epgp system. MS first offset second. I cant remember off the top of my head our weekly decay. Essentially imo its as fair as possible. New people still have good opportunities for upgrades, and more long term people dont get shafted by new members. No system Ive found is perfect. But Ive had too many bad experiances with dkp.

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Council loot obviously...

epgp if no one in your guild is smart enough to do the loot distribution properly.

Loot council works well if your pretty familiar with your raiders. It can lead to some tension though where there is perceived favoritism when there is none. Its easier imo to just avoid that.

[Avallon]

Yeah, I did not want to even consider loot council due to the potential perception of bias and the drama that ensues with it. I want a system that is fair, while benefiting the raid.

[braeldiil]

I've raided with straight points, bidding, /random, and a loot council. At the end of the day, they all work out pretty much the same. Over a decent pool of drops the same people will get the same loot, and really only /random will change most of the ordering.

So this means the key factor of a loot system is not how it hands out the loot, because that really won't change. The key, rather, is how effective the system is at minimizing loot drama. That's the only real effect a loot system has on your guild - the amount of drama. So pick whatever makes your guildmates happiest and don't sweat it - you'll always get pretty much the exact same loot.

[l33t]

Depends on whether you have a good, progress oriented officer core. If you do, loot council/master loot works as a charm. If your commanders are just typical loot whores, it won't work. Loot council is good, because you:
1. always give upgrade to the person that needs it most;
2. you don't have to use automated sophisticated systems like dkp/epgp/whatever, which are ususally a pain to manage and typically reward the mostly participated person, not the one that needs upgrade most;
System has only one great flaw. You need a lot of trust to your officer/loot commander from your raid members, else it increases loot paranoia quickly ("he only gears his friends!"). Having a raid of mature players with brains also helps. We use this system since WoTLK start, and after three years of DKP it was a hit for sure.
ps. You will still have to deal with issues of giving BiS trinket to this mage, that priest or that warlock. Give it to priest, works like a charm

[grimsanta]

Council loot obviously...

epgp if no one in your guild is smart enough to do the loot distribution properly.

No reason to insult people.

I prefer EPGP over loot councils, except in cutting edge guilds that need to equip certain people very quickly.

[Deleted]

That completely depends on what level you are currently raiding, as someone mentioned high end guilds will usually stick to loot council since they know who exactly benefits the most from a certain item. I can't imagine myself having anything else than Loot Council atm.

[Fiana]

Loot council works well if your pretty familiar with your raiders. It can lead to some tension though where there is perceived favoritism when there is none. Its easier imo to just avoid that.

It really depends on your loot council. I don't remember any complains about loot distribution in any of the guilds with loot council I played in. Most of the top guilds use council loot and it works wonderfully.

Realistically I can't imagine any other loot distribution in a proper hardcore progression guild. You must gear up your tanks and your 3-4 core healers first. Then you need to complete set bonuses to chosen raiders who do the most dps and will do even more dps in proper gear. Then you give upgrades to people who will benefit from it most. Like 509->556 is better upgrade for your raid than 535 ->556.

And everyone in the raid knows - the faster you kill the boss for the first time, the faster you will put it on farm, the faster you'll get all the gear you need.
I personally never had problems giving away gear if someone was able to benefit more from it. And I don't remember the times when it took me more than two month to get all the bis gear from this raid tier, even considering rng.

[TheWindWalker]

Loot council for guild runs. Rolling for straight-up pug runs. Personal loot for Flex (new Normal) mode because whyevenbotherwiththedrama.

[Avallon]

I see that a lot of people are recommending Loot Council. With the influx of new raiders, I am hesitant to use this system due to the potential guild drama that ensues. Has anyone had any issues with Loot Council? I am starting to lean in that direction, but am still hesitant of the potential lash back I will get for pulling my two officers into a separate channel and discussing who should get what.

[Zaedria]

How our guild operates:

/roll if it's an upgrade for your mainspec.
/roll 1 if you want it for offspec (then roll off if nobody wanted it for mainspec but more than one wanted it for offspec).
Highest roll wins, but:
Don't be a selfish dick.
Guild master has the final say (he takes into account stuff like attendance, whether it will make people's 2- and 4-part tier bonuses, who's already gotten loot tonight etc.).

It works because we don't recruit selfish dicks. Hell, we'll occasionally have what we call "polite-offs" where two people happen to roll on an upgrade and both are chill enough to say "it's okay, dude, you take this one." Not to say there haven't ever been any issues, but 99% of the time people are mature about it, and the ones that can't be mature about loot don't stay in the guild for very long.

Though I guess some people have to recruit selfish dicks if they value progression above actually genuinely enjoying the company of the people they raid with.

[Strifey]

For 10 man we just did a roll need before greed, but for 25 man it's basically a modified loot council.

Meaning it's a loot council but we rotate 4 veteran raiders/officers each week to protect against bias.

Then it's just based on biggest upgrades and performance.

[Bloodjunky22]

I see that a lot of people are recommending Loot Council. With the influx of new raiders, I am hesitant to use this system due to the potential guild drama that ensues. Has anyone had any issues with Loot Council? I am starting to lean in that direction, but am still hesitant of the potential lash back I will get for pulling my two officers into a separate channel and discussing who should get what.

anyone who has a problem with loot counsel is generally a loot whore. . . it helps you weed them out if your officers and or GM are actually fair in distribution.

[arcaneshot]

I see that a lot of people are recommending Loot Council. With the influx of new raiders, I am hesitant to use this system due to the potential guild drama that ensues. Has anyone had any issues with Loot Council? I am starting to lean in that direction, but am still hesitant of the potential lash back I will get for pulling my two officers into a separate channel and discussing who should get what.

You know, most people worth their salt know they're going to get passed over for loot while in trial period. That's the way it works. If they don't get that you don't want them (they're loot whores)

[Rosstafa]

People just roll for gear and whoever gets the highest wins it, but sometimes the guild/raid leaders will step in make a suggestion if they think someone else would benefit from the gear more. We never force anyone to give it up if they win the roll, but they are at least asked. I guess as we're just a casual, normal raiding guild we can get away with that, but on a proper heroic raiding team you might have to be a bit more firm with who gets what.

[cFortyfive]

I see that a lot of people are recommending Loot Council. With the influx of new raiders, I am hesitant to use this system due to the potential guild drama that ensues. Has anyone had any issues with Loot Council? I am starting to lean in that direction, but am still hesitant of the potential lash back I will get for pulling my two officers into a separate channel and discussing who should get what.

Regardless of how you are distributing loot those people who want to cause drama around loot will do cause drama around loot.
That said we have a loot council - a pretty bad one but it still works.

[Zharradan]

dkp and epgp are both ridiculous, you get loot by raiding, not by being a good player. says you enter a guild, you're a rogue, and thres a rogue raider, you enter as trial, he has dkp count much greater than you have off course.

you need a axe to roll combat, you don't have one, then on the boss that drops a axe it drops a HCWF axe, and the other rogues needs it (his is HC but no warforged)
then you need it too, you are using a dagger normal mode. not only that but you NEED the item for combat spec.

then the raid leader gives the item to the other rogue because he has more dkp....same could be say for epgp.

the best loot system is a mix between epgp and loot council, where's EPGP only count's if the item is the same upgrade for both players, and if it's not on the same upgrade lvl, then it's loot council.

[Nanotech]

I tend to agree with the people who have said that loot council is good, but mostly in tight-knit, drama free and cutting edge progression guilds. I've seen loot council go horribly wrong in fragmented cliquish guilds, where the officers would always have first pick of the loot, or their wives and girlfriends would. It resulted in major drama with the eventual inevitable dissolution of the guild as a whole. I've never used epgp before so I'm not going to comment on it either way. In my opinion some variation of dkp system is best for guilds that do not fit the criteria I mentioned before. Systems that take attendance into attention are also good.

Edit: I should mention for instance that my own raiding experience in a top 10 US guild in vanilla was a mixed dkp and loot council system. Certain things, like Atiesh fragments, were loot counciled as well as set pieces (8 warrior tanks with set bonus for 4 horsemen LOL). Other than that it was mostly dkp. I had loot council in a lot less progression-oriented guild in Wrath (we were progressed decently, just not top 10 or even top 100), and somehow the raid leader's girlfriend always ended up first with all the sets, with Valanyr etc, even though she was far from our top healer. This also happened with certain other female members, I'm guessing no by sheer accident.

So honestly, any system is open to a certain degree of abuse and sometimes you need to try several things before you find what works best for your guild. It is important to explain to members why things happen and possibly ask for input and ideas. When people feel you're being fair and honestly want what's best for the group, they tend to be a lot more understanding of whatever system you ultimately go with.

[rayden54]

I see that a lot of people are recommending Loot Council. With the influx of new raiders, I am hesitant to use this system due to the potential guild drama that ensues. Has anyone had any issues with Loot Council? I am starting to lean in that direction, but am still hesitant of the potential lash back I will get for pulling my two officers into a separate channel and discussing who should get what.

I'd be more wary of drama with the pre-existing members. Asking them to go from a "everyone is equal" /roll system to a "the officers are god" system is a big step. The new recruits would at least have the benefit of knowing what they're signing up for.

If I were in a guild that went that route, I'd /gquit immediately. Then again, the only two raiding guilds I've been in consisted of a core group of RL friends (including the officers, guild lead, and raid lead) and a few "extras." I simply would not trust them to not favor their friends over strangers.