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  1. #161
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    25 man does not feel epic raid at all.

    Also raiding does not need to be extremely hard and tuned challenge like it became after Vanilla. Why cant raids be little easier but focused more about getting groups together and just have good time and enjoy the epicness. If developers dont need to design 20 different phases and stages and abilities for each boss, it frees up time to develop more raids.

  2. #162
    Way back in vanilla I was invited to Ony 40M raid since one of my buddies was doing it. Mind you I spent most of my time PvPing, but decided to give it a try.

    I will say this, it was a cluster fook. We never killed her, hell most of the people were random people put together, but my God was the fight awful. After that I never touched raids until BC, obviously because it didn't require 40 people to do them, and even then with 25M raids people still manage to mess up or even be an incredible pain in the arse just trying to get a raid organized.

    People will say well 10-25 people doesn't feel "heroic" but then what about other stories in Warcraft lore? Not even Warcraft where there's just a single hero taking on the odds? To me less people = more personal and it makes your character feel powerful, even though they're on the equal playing field as any other player.

    In the game mechanics aspect. I understand people want the big nasty raids, but I guess that's where we end up settling with world bosses, while I'd have no issue if the new flex mechanic allowed 40 people go for it, but for me I'll enjoy the 10-25M raids.

  3. #163
    The game is already like some crazy light show with 25 people and doing world bosses with 40 people should carry Epilepsy warnings! lol

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    All these people claiming lag on world bosses...............

    When what you are realling experiencing is bad frame rate which is on your end.
    Really depends. If only a few sure. But if everyone experience lags, can be the server.

  5. #165
    Some people love fighting a big boss with massive numbers but I really don't get it. I don't want to feel so weak that the only way I stand a chance is to get a small army together. It's like a swarm of ants picking a fight with a human being.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Teph View Post
    Always reading stuff like "10-15 were afk anyways or were slackers". Do you really believe that? I don't think we had any during bossfights in classic Naxx or AQ.

    I think we would have seen those 10 people in the damage meter back then. Or Thaddius. Even one slacking wiped you.
    Maybe the bad raids had bad people. But that has nothing to do with 40er.

    Yes i do.. Because as i mentioned, i was one of those guys back then, when i had no understanding of mechanics. and i know for a fact that even though i didn't do well, i still did better than some others which means that there were others worse than me.

    Anyway, the point i mean to make is the following: The fights in the raids back then, would not be considered challenging by todays standard. At all

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    All these people claiming lag on world bosses...............

    When what you are realling experiencing is bad frame rate which is on your end.
    Claiming that there were no lag is BS.... servers crashed sometimes if there were too many fighting in the same zone at once.. i Remember playing on Hellscream server, and the Arranged world PvP Fights outside Orgrimmar, stormwind, or even in arathi highlands. If the server didn't crash it was a miracle

  7. #167
    Pit Lord Denkou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crainial View Post
    Yes i do.. Because as i mentioned, i was one of those guys back then, when i had no understanding of mechanics. and i know for a fact that even though i didn't do well, i still did better than some others which means that there were others worse than me.
    And how far did you get? The original Naxxramas was very hard for its time and having even a couple slackers could mean that your entire group wiped. Thaddius and 4H required your entire raid group to be very coordinated.

    ZG/MC were more forgiving, I will admit that I cluelessly followed my guild around as they cleared half of MC while I had no clue about any of the strats, but Naxx was on another level.

  8. #168
    Always had problems getting 40 people online. Most of the time we'd run with 25-35.
    1st May 2013-->1st April 2014
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  9. #169
    Say lag wasn't an issue... I'd hate to heal such a raid (my UI scaling would look awkward). That and I can't imagine the mechanics being anything impressive. Would most likely be a Patchwerk like fight with a few unavoidable AoE dmg to give healers something to do.

  10. #170
    Deleted
    no, it's all the visual guff and graphical overheads, possibly also the bigger numbers that cause the lag. 40 man raiding ran perfectly fine in vanilla for vast majority, I remember the good Azuergos pugs that used to go down.

    Technical limitations and poor guild management are the only things stopping a return to 40 man raids...

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by twistedsista View Post
    i was in a 40 man raiding guild in vanilla & we had no problem getting raids together.
    Yeah, because Molten Core and Blackwing Lair are complex fights with lots of imagination, and exclusive mechanics....

    No way such retarded times are fun. I only got ANY interest in WoW way after because the game mechanics and questing looked uninteresting and poorly done for years.

  12. #172
    While 40 man might seem epic, the lag/video lag is bad enough on LFR with 25 peeps. Plus I can easily see how people could very easily just slack off on auto pilot, and 40 people is ALOT. I have a feeling that even after raiding for a few months, it'd be easy to feel as if you're always raiding with strangers.
    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
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  13. #173
    Deleted
    40 man is stupid.
    Having to get 40 players together is a bore, and the raid is just too messy to be enjoyable.

  14. #174
    WildStar prides itself on 40 man raids that they are designing, here is my prediction: It releases with 40 man raids then once they realise that 40 man raids only work in nostalgia land and not reality land they will scale future raids back to 20.

    Its very hard to get 40 people together on the same night at the same time and keep them organized.
    40 man raids create a lot of lag that most peoples computer can't handle.
    In classic 40 man raids 16 people pulled the cart and 24 sat on the cart flicking their boogers at one another.

    40 man raids were only good to people suffering from Nostalgia overload.

  15. #175
    The only challenge in 40 mans was getting 40 people, and trying to make sure each of them knew how to play.

  16. #176
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    All these people claiming lag on world bosses...............

    When what you are realling experiencing is bad frame rate which is on your end.
    there is a known bug, something to do with healing spells and procs at the start of fights with large numbers of people.
    Hi

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Jilor View Post
    I don't agree with either of these quotes (including the quotes they quoted). I'd argue especially the second one is even more wrong. I'd argue that you clearly never did a serious 40 man raid. Some of us cleared Naxx in Vanilla and I experienced none of these issues. Recruiting, lag, logistics...Look, I personally know 40 mans are never coming back, that's fine, I got over that in TBC. That being said, it's ridiculous how off base these quotes are. Like saying 15 people were afk.

    Yeah, let's see any guild kill Loatheb, Thaddius or Sapph with 15 afk people back in Vanilla (hell, when most guilds hit Thaddius, two dead people meant a wipe because of the dps loss from charges). As for logistics? It was simple actually, you had class channels (or healing channels for the healers). I never once had an issue understanding my role or with any major confusion. Did people make mistakes occasionally? Sure. But it was generally fixed the next pull. 40 mans were a ton of fun. Most people just never got to experience a real guild that was capable of high end raiding back in Vanilla. And this is why 40 mans were removed.
    I didn't say anything about people being afk, I would however point out that we no longer have buff bots like pallies that would just cycle their short buffs all fight and might as well have been afk as far as dmg on the boss, spell effects or log numbers causing lag. If you were clearing or close to clearing Naxx when it was current you were in the top 1% of raiding which by the level of success removes recruiting issues and things that the other 99% of the player base deals with. As I have said the real question is did you lead any of these raids? If you did was it handed to you already established with systems in place or did you start it from scratch? If you answered no to either then you really can't speak to how the issues I mentioned other then lag effecting the raid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    I bet most people couldn't name 10 guild leaders on their server anymore.

    I couldn't name 10 raids or guilds that raid on my server. The hemorrhaging of active accounts on many servers is another issue this will never happen. It is next to impossible to get a set 25 running and have a chance at it lasting a full tier of raiding. 40 mans not a chance in hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    I thought there was an MMO coming out this year that's doing 40 man raiding again...

    Wow could handle 40 man (instanced) raiding if they redid their engine to handle it, but I doubt that's going to happen at this point. The world bosses from this expansion were sufficient for my nostalgia purposes.

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    Uh, we've crashed the server from world bosses on Area 52, performance issues in regards to world bosses isn't just on the user's end.
    We had a scheduled massive pvp battle on our server that had to be split into separate areas most recently because it was crashing the server having a few hundred ppl go apeshit even in the most out of the way zones.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  18. #178
    Pandaren Monk Constraint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    Nobody I know who raided 40 man liked it.
    The question is, did you know anyone? Nobody I know who raided 40 mans didn't like it, and everyone I know who raided 40 mans was royally pissed off when they removed them from the game.

  19. #179
    40 mans werent even that hard. Their mechanics were quite trivial

  20. #180
    40-man was cool but too much lagg.

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