Reason's behind disgust at 60$ for level 90 chars

[Rixis]

Try being in a lfr with a bunch a pay to boosts dps in nothing but greens, and no knowledge of their class.... that's why the hate!

I did LFR on my druid to help out a friends healer alt (he levelled it normally, but needed secrets for legendary quest). The only people below 50k dps on any given fight were 1 tank and 2 healers. Most were 100k+ dps.

I see the horror stories on mmo-c, then go to ToT and see that the runs are going perfectly smoothly. Hell, we even killed Durumu just as he was starting to cast his first maze.

Shocking isn't it, LFR was the worst horror ever before level 90 boost, now we have level 90 boost and LFR is the worst thing ever BECAUSE of the level 90 boost .... yes .... Some people get shit LFR, but now they have a new scapegoat/reason.

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People hate change. Boosts are change. Also, people refuse to avoid LFR.

Whilst claiming that they never do it

Seen posts on the forums saying "blah blah blah i did lfr and it sucked, this is why i never do lfr" .....

[Xorious]

Try being in a lfr with a bunch a pay to boosts dps in nothing but greens, and no knowledge of their class.... that's why the hate!

I hate this argument so much, it just makes no sense complaining about the boosted players, before the lvl90 boosts there were mainly idiots in LFR aswell. I'd rarely see over 5 people hitting over 150k dps before these boosts aswell, proving most people who got to 90 by leveling the normal way barely have any knowledge either.

And why does it matter if they have 483 greens instead of 450 or 463 blues? It's about the stats not the ilvl, but I guess you also would rather wear an epic 440 ilvl item over a 450 ilvl blue with way better stats.

[Ghostile]

I hate this argument so much, it just makes no sense complaining about the boosted players, before the lvl90 boosts there were mainly idiots in LFR aswell. I'd rarely see over 5 people hitting over 150k dps before these boosts aswell, proving most people who got to 90 by leveling the normal way barely have any knowledge either.

And why does it matter if they have 483 greens instead of 450 or 463 blues? It's about the stats not the ilvl, but I guess you also would rather wear an epic 440 ilvl item over a 450 ilvl blue with way better stats.

450/463 blues don't get in LFR SoO

And when the "market" got a temporal flood of 496~ ilvled people, the LFR is almost literally full of them.
This is not, in any way, permanent. The flood will go down in few weeks when the "wave" gets gear and molds in shape with the rest.

[Xorious]

450/463 blues don't get in LFR SoO

And when the "market" got a temporal flood of 496~ ilvled people, the LFR is almost literally full of them.
This is not, in any way, permanent, the flood will go down in few weeks when the "wave" gets gear and molds in shape with the rest.

I know, but hes complaining about people still having greens while getting in LFR. I remember when I started getting into SoO I still had 2 or 3 463 ilvl blues, which is pretty much the same idea.

Edit: the greens are even better than those blues.

[Ghostile]

I know, but hes complaining about people still having greens while getting in LFR. I remember when I started getting into SoO I still had 2 or 3 463 ilvl blues, which is pretty much the same idea.

Edit: the greens are even better than those blues.

true.

But the big difference is how there are 20 times more of these fresh characters, than there have ever been.

[Deleted]

I always hate the ones calling LFR people baddies, when they themselves are in LFR. If these people are good and consider themselves good, why are they even in LFR? I skipped SoO LFR and went to flex and normal this time around, and am loving it.

I'm an exceptional player. I choose to do LFR because I refuse to join a raiding guild (hello life) and I refuse to "link ilvl and achievement" to some scrub that wants to get carried in a Flex / Normal pug. LFR is accessible and doesn't demand anything.

Not every player in LFR is bad, or is an AFK'r, you do get people that actually contribute and those are the players that are downing the bosses.

[Vargur]

Eve Online.

Well, dropping EVE on his head like that is not fair. It's only the greatest MMO to date.

[Ghostile]

I'm an exceptional player. I choose to do LFR because I refuse to join a raiding guild (hello life) and I refuse to "link ilvl and achievement" to some scrub that wants to get carried in a Flex / Normal pug.

Not every player in LFR is bad, or is an AFK'r, you do get people that actually contribute and those are the players that are downing the bosses.

How does joining a raid guild have anything to do with life?

[Ayarea]

Try being in a lfr with a bunch a pay to boosts dps in nothing but greens, and no knowledge of their class.... that's why the hate!

Nothing different to people who just leveled their toons and didn't read up either .

[NotValidAnymore]

Because apparently, lazy = stupid.

There is absolutely no one that would learn anything from leveling 1-90, that wouldn't learn from reading up on their class and how to play it on the Internet when actually at level 90/max level.

The argument that everyone who uses boosts are stupid, it's just so wrong, it's hilarious.

[Cassidin]

Let me give you an example.

Let's say WoW is a school system. Their job is to teach you and help you grow. Well, the issue here is that they're too lazy for that and they want everyone to pass and move on to the next grade with minimal work on their part. So they essentially decide to skip the beginning grades. Now there's no elementary school. You skip pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and all the way to High School senior year. So now new students who are joining the school - IE 5 and 6 year olds are now with the other seniors.

The problem is that this is not a good analogy, WoW is not schooling - and you can't compare the two. This is more like having a series of games and being expected to play though AwesomeGame1, AwesomeGame2, AwesomeButStartingToGetTiringGame3, OMGNotThisAgainGame4, WotMoreGame5, before you get to the RecentGame6 which you wanted to play.

From a marketing point of view - you are killing your own game by making people play 4 previous games before they can play your new one. Vanilla WoW isnt the same game as TBC which isnt the same game as WOTLK which isnt the same as Cata which isnt the same game as MoP. Why should you have to play one to play the other? I get the point of having to play the previous game (or last 5/10 levels) before max level to get a feel of the character before max level - but not all the ones prior to that. This isnt all though, because anyone playing WOTLK now isnt playing the same WOTLK that we played a few years ago when it was current. Classes and mechanics have changed totally it just isnt the same anymore. There also are not the same people that there were playing it and certainly not the same motivation to play it. When we played it years ago there was a reason to do ICC (for cool CURRENT items), now there is no motivation to do this apart from maybe for transmog purposes as it gives you nothing on your way to max level. Why should people now have to play an old "ruined by being outdated" game in order to play the current one?

I just boosted a Rogue (more for the professions boost than anything else), and while I have played a rogue before in Cata, I haven't played any of my rogues since really. While getting my little rogue from 30 to 60 for the veteran bonus, I did very little apart from Sinister Strike. Sometimes I would get slice and dice up - but usually by the time I had combo points on - the mob was nearly dead so I just used recuperate. I certainly wasn't playing my rogue "well" even at that level but it just didn't matter. In fact due to the time it took to get combo points there was very little point playing it properly as most finishing moves just wernt worth it (not much point putting a dot on a target that is on 10% and will die next hit).

Now I got this rogue to 90, first thing I did was send all the timeless gear I had on other toons to her, and then collect coins and other timeless gear including 2x 10000coin daggers from timeless isle and then read up about glyphs, talents, and rotation for combat rogue. My DPS on this rogue is still not good, sims say I should be around 99k with my gear and I seem to average around 70k - but that will improve with practice Im sure. Sure, I am not a "new" player, have played since around 2005 and been involved in max level content in some form or other since TBC so I know enough to get by so I realise that me boosting a character isnt the same as a totally new player doing so, but I still do not think it is the "boosts" that are the issue.

My point is that the complaints are not about the "boosts" as such - but simply about lazy players who make zero effort to find out what to do. Yes, lazy players having a boost does make those lazy players more of a problem and personally I think Blizzard shouldn't have brought in the boost to 90 until WoD or just before. Having a boost to max level is not the same thing as a boost to 10 levels below max which is what they sold this idea to us as originally.

TL;DR: The problem is Blizzard adding the boosts to 90 now while 90 is still max level - they should have waited till WoD was here (or nearly) so it wasn't a boost to max level, but a boost to ENTRY into the current expansion.

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Take this reasoning and apply it to gear.

LFR takes no skill, and you don't need to get better to clear it.

How would selling LFR gear be different? They would get the gear, have no idea how to play both ways, just by selling the gear they P2 not grind.

Do you support selling full LFR gear too? What about PvP, you can afk through BGs for a full honor set, why not sell it?

Leveling isn't the only part of the game without a skill barrier, how would selling those rewards be different?

"Skill level" is a very different thing to different people. I certainly would not say that "LFR takes no skill". I would say that "LFR takes a LOT less skill than flex/normal/heroic". However if you have been in LFRs where nearly everyone has "zero" skill you will have experienced the 10 stacks of determination on Nazgrim for example. Sure it is easy enough that some totally non skilled (or even AFK) players can be carried through LFR, but it does still require some people to have at least some skill.

Levelling is generally a solo experience (apart from instances but they are faceroll even more so while levelling), and the only skill it takes is to push one button over and over. You may die if you just do this, but you get back up and carry on - no skill at all required.

Personally I think they should have given new boosts lower level gear (476 for example) so the only LFRs they could get into in that new gear would be T14 LFRs. If they wanted to do anything more, then they have to either grind their way through T14 and T15, or at the very least go to timeless isle and have to grind some coins to get a semi decent weapon and armor. It would at least require a couple of hours of practising rotations on mobs that CAN kill you if you really have zero clue. Sure if they have other characters that can send them this gear then they can bypass this grinding - but at least that would imply that they have some idea what to do at least on another character. It would be a start anyway.

[Deleted]

If I had to put the effort into it - so should you.

Because our grandfathers fought wars and ate stale food for months and slept in the dirt in the freezing winters so should we.

[Migrin]

Hey Guys

For me the issue really isn't the level boost. I think it is a majority of people who is smart enough to play their character at an appropriate level without having leveled it. For most specs it is really just read a guide and you will be fine. However, if an average player has to switch to a new role, he should get a chance to train first, before he jumps into a raid. The problem is, how quickly you can go from reaching max level to raiding the most current content. Going through some dungeons and previous raid tiers would allow the people you are complaining about to get familiar with their character. With the current progression system you ding 90 and jump into lfr 15 minutes later if you have some timeles isle tokens available. Dungeons are completely pointless at that point, because you are clad in 483 already. The only thing that will push you ahead is LFR. If there were no timeless isle tokens and a boosted character would get an itemlevel just high enough to join Heroic dungeons, there would be no problem at all.

Cheers and good luck in lfr

[Deleted]

People don't like the fact my 515 ilvl boomkin whom of which I used my boost on, now does more DPS than their beloved class they leveled from 1-90. Can't hear you over the sound of my lack of a fuck to give.

It's not P2W. You're Paying for Time. People can hate it all they want, it's not going anywhere so suck it up and grow up.

[Huggykaze]

For me it just goes against the very nature of an MMORPG.

Pay to skip content you just paid to have access to and play.

Have a max level toon that goes backwards to hit level 1 content they have never seen.

Players that have no clue how to play a class. (and if you think blizzard little tutorial will fix that you'd be wrong)

It's a money grab at the basic level. While it's not P2W, it's a byproduct of blizzards ever increasing problem of catering to those that just can't be bothered to wait and play the game for rewards. (EX: gaining levels, doing dungeons or raids for gear) It's a push of the NOW NOW NOW generation and blizzard sees them as an untapped money stream.

So they created a way to not be P2W but warp the game for cash.

It's in ingenious move on blizzard part but it's a disease on the game. It's been getting worse and worse over the years and it will produce more problems than I care for.

And that exactly is the reason why this game is slowly dying. MMOs are based on players base. Over 10 years people changed, what we were used to do 10 years ago (fight if we want something) went away, now it's total opposite. I don't remember people crying for free epix in classic or early/mid TBC, it started with new generation of kids. Now Blizzard knows that these snots will spend shitloads of money, but they want to be 'pro' with next to no effort, so they get LFR (which isn't bad idea, kinda like heroics in TBC, but more rewarding and progressing with content), they get faceroll heroics (which are comparable to lvl40 dungeons), they get free boost in the end. Hopefully Blizzard won't come up with idea of filling in-game shop with epic gear...

And while I love that boost idea (after leveling 7 or 8 characters it's gotten really boring), it wasn't really thought through. Boosted characters should get gear of ilvl which will let them start heroics, not most LFR content. If I choose not to pay I get less for more effort. Also these characters should be obliged to play certain number of heroics before being allowed to go LFR (right now you can queue for SoO with TI gear), so they learn at least a little bit of their class. This way they may cut the leveling, but they still do what everybody else does - they fight for the main course.

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People don't like the fact my 515 ilvl boomkin whom of which I used my boost on, now does more DPS than their beloved class they leveled from 1-90. Can't hear you over the sound of my lack of a fuck to give.

It's not P2W. You're Paying for Time. People can hate it all they want, it's not going anywhere so suck it up and grow up.

Yout ilvl515 boomkin may be good in LFR SoO now, but your ilvl515 boomkin was utter shit in ToT when you boosted it. Stop being assholes, this is utterly egoistic to go LFR with gear which is totally shitty, but of proper ilvl. It's like I went SoO with my ilvl 498 tank because of my ilvl553 boomkin/resto gear...

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Levelling is generally a solo experience (apart from instances but they are faceroll even more so while levelling), and the only skill it takes is to push one button over and over. You may die if you just do this, but you get back up and carry on - no skill at all required.

Personally I think they should have given new boosts lower level gear (476 for example) so the only LFRs they could get into in that new gear would be T14 LFRs. If they wanted to do anything more, then they have to either grind their way through T14 and T15, or at the very least go to timeless isle and have to grind some coins to get a semi decent weapon and armor. It would at least require a couple of hours of practising rotations on mobs that CAN kill you if you really have zero clue. Sure if they have other characters that can send them this gear then they can bypass this grinding - but at least that would imply that they have some idea what to do at least on another character. It would be a start anyway.

Agreed on 2nd paragraph, not so much on 1st.

Leveling makes you get to know your abilities at the basic level. If you get boosted, log in, queue for ToT/SoO you have no idea what some abilities do. You don't know your passives etc. And while as DPS it's not so scary, healer or tank which doesn't know their abilities may kinda cause wipefest.

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Because our grandfathers fought wars and ate stale food for months and slept in the dirt in the freezing winters so should we.

Well, that would drive the pussy out of some people...

[Huggykaze]

Because apparently, lazy = stupid.

There is absolutely no one that would learn anything from leveling 1-90, that wouldn't learn from reading up on their class and how to play it on the Internet when actually at level 90/max level.

The argument that everyone who uses boosts are stupid, it's just so wrong, it's hilarious.

Well, argument is stupid, but theory and practise are 2 different things and you should know that. I've read guides about all 3 mage specs, I know theory very well, but I still suck as mage (or any caster DPS tbh ). Maybe because of lack of practise, maybe that extremely boring rotation or maybe casters ain't my type of thing.

[crunk]

People don't like the fact my 515 ilvl boomkin whom of which I used my boost on, now does more DPS than their beloved class they leveled from 1-90. Can't hear you over the sound of my lack of a fuck to give.

It's not P2W. You're Paying for Time. People can hate it all they want, it's not going anywhere so suck it up and grow up.

im 99.9% sure your moonkin is garbage.

[Cassidin]

Leveling makes you get to know your abilities at the basic level. If you get boosted, log in, queue for ToT/SoO you have no idea what some abilities do. You don't know your passives etc. And while as DPS it's not so scary, healer or tank which doesn't know their abilities may kinda cause wipefest.

Only you dont. I levelled (admittedly only to 60) on my rogue really only using sinister strike and recuperate. The point is that sure, you CAN learn about your class as you level - but there is nothing forcing you to. Almost every class can single button push their way to max level.

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And while I love that boost idea (after leveling 7 or 8 characters it's gotten really boring), it wasn't really thought through. Boosted characters should get gear of ilvl which will let them start heroics, not most LFR content. If I choose not to pay I get less for more effort. Also these characters should be obliged to play certain number of heroics before being allowed to go LFR (right now you can queue for SoO with TI gear), so they learn at least a little bit of their class. This way they may cut the leveling, but they still do what everybody else does - they fight for the main course.

The way it was sold to us - it wouldn't have been a problem because boosted players would be 10 levels lower than max level. Unless I missed something they never said originally that they were going to have boosts to max level - only to 10 levels below max level, it was never said they were going to bring this in now! It was something for WoD. OF course now they bring it in simple to convince people to BUY WoD many months before its release.

[Huggykaze]

Only you dont. I levelled (admittedly only to 60) on my rogue really only using sinister strike and recuperate. The point is that sure, you CAN learn about your class as you level - but there is nothing forcing you to. Almost every class can single button push their way to max level.

Well, sure, if mindless spam is ok with them. Not gonna judge their intellect level then (no offense meant) And I don't really understand 1st sentence. If you were trying to say that only I don't know shit about class which I didn't level, you kinda contradicted it with further part of your post.

[ComputerNerd]

Try being in a lfr with a bunch a pay to boosts dps in nothing but greens, and no knowledge of their class.... that's why the hate!

And if the constant whines about LFR are any indication, how is that any different ?
The current levelling process is not ensuring skilled players.

The regurgitated nonsense is clearly false.

LFR is not necessary, so if you can commit to organised raiding, then DON'T DO IT.
Simple concept but hard for arrogant people to grasp.
Random groups means lack of standards, so grow up, use those seemingly superior brains of yours and go pug your own content if you want to dictate standards.

Only you dont. I levelled (admittedly only to 60) on my rogue really only using sinister strike and recuperate. The point is that sure, you CAN learn about your class as you level - but there is nothing forcing you to. Almost every class can single button push their way to max level.

The best content for learning those skills is one where the community has destroyed that opportunity.
Try doing a dungeon during levelling at a slow pace, actually learning your skills by making mistakes.
No, you cant do that because of the rush, rush, rush to the level cap.

People should stop the mindless whining and look at the cause, one which they have to look much closer to home for in many cases.
Levelling isn't effective at teaching because the experienced players prevent you from learning as you go.
Forcing everyone through mandatory teachings will simply cause the experienced players that don't need it to whine all the time.
If it is optional then it can be skipped by those who would need it, and therefore solving nothing.

Note how again this comes back to the whining of the experienced players.