Reason's behind disgust at 60$ for level 90 chars

[Cassidin]

Well, sure, if mindless spam is ok with them. Not gonna judge their intellect level then (no offense meant) And I don't really understand 1st sentence. If you were trying to say that only I don't know shit about class which I didn't level, you kinda contradicted it with further part of your post.

No, I was just saying that at least for the most recent low level toon I was playing - and admittedly only up to lvl 60 - I had no motivation to use my full "toolset" as the mobs were dead by the time I could use most abilities. Due to this, most times all I ended up using was the hammer because I didn't need a screwdriver. Killing mobs that die in one hit to 3 hits is a far different thing to killing mobs that take 10-15 hits - you don't NEED to use many of your abilities so you are not really taught to use them. It is for this reason that I do not believe levelling teaches people as much as you believe. Sure it does teach people SOMETHING - but I think it is much more limited and anyone that WANTs to play their class properly will look up what they should do once they get to max level. Sure, many will not but that is simply because they don't want to play properly. Levelling for 90 levels isn't going to change their mind on that. Of course, this is just my opinion - I am not forwarding this as fact but just the way I see it.

[evansp]

I have been healing in LFR for the last week or so since I leveled, yes leveled not boosted, my shaman and I have yet to have a bad run, actually the runs seem to be smoother. There has even been a few times where a boosted tank or healer would meantion that they just boosted their toon so if they screw up they are sorry in advance and would welcome any suggestions to make them better. There was a couple of douches that bitched at them but for the most part they got shouted down and we went along and did very well. I was healing that tank and you could see him getting a little better, more confident each pull and when he did make a little mistake there was a couple of experienced tanks playing boosted dps that would help him out. It was nice to see.

[Deleted]

Because our grandfathers fought wars and ate stale food for months and slept in the dirt in the freezing winters so should we.

Yes, comparing the expectation that you should put in a few hours into developing your character in a game is directly comparable to that.

[Deleted]

i leveled up my warlock to 90 and ran LFR to get my gear many a time i seemed to be the only warlock. This 90 boost seemed to be used mostly on scrub warlocks so now i am in LFR going against gear with other warlocks who got a free 90 5 mins before i sighed up for the raid. Yes warlock is not my main and in some Timeless isle gear but at least i know how to play the class and have even raided on it in the past.

Edit. Thing is with WOW players who suck can suck in LFR and get carried unless its a whipe and they look at damage meters.

[Cassidin]

The best content for learning those skills is one where the community has destroyed that opportunity.
Try doing a dungeon during levelling at a slow pace, actually learning your skills by making mistakes.
No, you cant do that because of the rush, rush, rush to the level cap.

People should stop the mindless whining and look at the cause, one which they have to look much closer to home for in many cases.
Levelling isn't effective at teaching because the experienced players prevent you from learning as you go.
Forcing everyone through mandatory teachings will simply cause the experienced players that don't need it to whine all the time.
If it is optional then it can be skipped by those who would need it, and therefore solving nothing.

Note how again this comes back to the whining of the experienced players.

I totally agree with your first paragraph. I remember instancing in TBC being a slow process where we learnt as we went along. I remember learning how to properly do chain trapping on my hunter (a skill that isn't even really needed now) in Shattered Halls, removing some of the adds at the end group in Sethekk Halls by MCing one mob and letting the others kill it on my priest etc. When levelling characters now I don't even bother doing instances much of the time as I don't like the rush rush. I would rather quest which I still find more enjoyable than zerg fest instance spamming even after levelling so many characters.

I only partly agree with your second paragraph though, while this is caused by experienced players I would not want things changed to slow down the levelling process. The vast majority of levelling characters are alts of more experienced players - the number of "new" players is small by comparison I believe. Making levelling slower for experienced characters would probably have the effect of making more players leave the game or just never level alts (which may have the same effect). Unfortunately I think this would have a more detrimental effect on the game than putting off new players - I agree it shouldn't be like this but I think it is.

This comes back to my original belief that best place for players to learn their skills are the last 5/10 levels of play - ei, the current levelling of the current expansion. If current boosts were boosting characters to 85, and then in WoD boosts working to lvl90 that would be much better imo.

[evansp]

Well, argument is stupid, but theory and practise are 2 different things and you should know that. I've read guides about all 3 mage specs, I know theory very well, but I still suck as mage (or any caster DPS tbh ). Maybe because of lack of practise, maybe that extremely boring rotation or maybe casters ain't my type of thing.

I couldn't agree more but it's the other way for me, im really good with casters and healers but anything else I suck at even though I read all the guides and all that. Might be because I only really enjoy casters and my apathy gets in the way.

[Deianeira]

The problem here, is the 90 boost is the result of Blizzard being lazy - yet again. The major issue with MoP is that alt-leveling was at a bare minimum. Not many people were doing it. Why? Because they've made it mind-numbing and boring. So instead of addressing the issues with the leveling system and trying to improve it in some way, they just decided to give everyone 90 boosts and be done with it.

I can tell you that i LOVE the possibility to Boost to 90. I have several lvl 90s and i wanted to try a lock and had one that was lvl 50 but if this boost thing hadnt come i wouldnt have bothered. And i dont blame Blizzard for it, that they have failed with the levelling. No i dont do that becuase the levelling is awesome, sure that sounds like im talking against myself. BUT it is great especially if one is new to the game or if you try a race that you never played before or a knew faction.

But still when you are getting up towards the server cap on characters levelling isnt ALL THAT fun anymore. And this crap about "ohh man LFR is horrendous now" Sure i agree that the firste few resets after the release of boosts it wasnt all that fun to LFR . But i have had worse nights before the boosts so i dont make anything out of that.

[Huggykaze]

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The way it was sold to us - it wouldn't have been a problem because boosted players would be 10 levels lower than max level. Unless I missed something they never said originally that they were going to have boosts to max level - only to 10 levels below max level, it was never said they were going to bring this in now! It was something for WoD. OF course now they bring it in simple to convince people to BUY WoD many months before its release.

Yeah, I agree. I'm not talking about how it was supposed to be, but how it is. If this is aimed to help players in WoD, shouldn't it ding your character to max level of previous expansion? So 85 now, 90 in WoD, 100 in another expansion etc.

- - - Updated - - -

No, I was just saying that at least for the most recent low level toon I was playing - and admittedly only up to lvl 60 - I had no motivation to use my full "toolset" as the mobs were dead by the time I could use most abilities. Due to this, most times all I ended up using was the hammer because I didn't need a screwdriver. Killing mobs that die in one hit to 3 hits is a far different thing to killing mobs that take 10-15 hits - you don't NEED to use many of your abilities so you are not really taught to use them. It is for this reason that I do not believe levelling teaches people as much as you believe. Sure it does teach people SOMETHING - but I think it is much more limited and anyone that WANTs to play their class properly will look up what they should do once they get to max level. Sure, many will not but that is simply because they don't want to play properly. Levelling for 90 levels isn't going to change their mind on that. Of course, this is just my opinion - I am not forwarding this as fact but just the way I see it.

But looking it up on icy-veins and trying/getting to know while leveling is different. That's why we get more levels each expansion, to learn new mechanics while leveling.

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I couldn't agree more but it's the other way for me, im really good with casters and healers but anything else I suck at even though I read all the guides and all that. Might be because I only really enjoy casters and my apathy gets in the way.

I actually do well as a healer, my resto druid is stuff of a legend xD I would probably do well with Shadow Priest, but it's just my imagination, 'cos I've never ever played priest.

[Ghostile]

I find it interesting how people say "they ruin LFR" whilst people reply "No, there are unskilled players coming without boosts aswell"
While both are right, both ignore the real cause here.

Let's ASSUME there are 100 new 90s coming to LFR daily.

They are spread quite evenly and are unnoticeable in the crowd.

Then comes 10000 new 90s in a very, very short time.

They spread evenly in the LFR groups, BUT, due to their number, they are very noticeable in the crowd.

Where usually in the LFR group, there would be... let's say 6 new guys. Barely noticeable.

At the moment, when the boosted are at large and doing LFR, the normal group might consist of 12 or more new guys, which is right away noticeable.


This is definitely not a permanent effect. It will last probably few weeks from here, up until near the release, when more people are grabbing the expansion.


Numbers are 100% pulled out of my ass, don't think about them.

[evansp]

So what I am hearing there are quite a few massively awesome people on these boards that believe most of the player base should just quit the game because outside of them they all suck. Heres a suggestion, why don't all you super awesome special snowflakes get together and faceroll HC then snuggle with each other when you are done and leave the rest of us alone, my god you uber snowflakes just wear on most peoples last nerve.

[Huggykaze]

So what I am hearing there are quite a few massively awesome people on these boards that believe most of the player base should just quit the game because outside of them they all suck. Heres a suggestion, why don't all you super awesome special snowflakes get together and faceroll HC then snuggle with each other when you are done and leave the rest of us alone, my god you uber snowflakes just wear on most peoples last nerve.

Actually these 'uber snowflakes' are people who want to be rewarded properly for putting some more effort into game than your average 'Jimmy, 16, dad doesn't let me play after 22'... I may understand that some people don't have time to raid normals/HCs and progress 2-3 nights a week, so they chose easier version which is LFR, but still they had to take their time and gear their character properly. Now bunch of people just jump into ToT/SoO with shittiest gear and screw others' fun.

[Deleted]

Pay to win? Looking at the LFR now, it's anything BUT win.
ToT part 1, about 15 boosties. Some of them straight out of the box, some had couple Timeless gear pieces (garbage too heh)
#6 on DPS was 60k. The lfr went with only 1 wipe cos there was 3 heroic geared players farming for transmog (me and other 2 dps) but god, disc priest in 520s beating actual DPS on the charts??

And not only the dps meters. These people dont have a clue how to play. They never use any defensives. They die to any mechanic. But it's nothing shocking. The effect was predictable. Give a player who never played wow before your heroic geared toon and que it for lfr, even. He will suck just as bad. Will propably get some "EBAYER LOL" hate in tradechat. Because that's what the boost is - player doesn't have time to learn.

[Cassidin]

So what I am hearing there are quite a few massively awesome people on these boards that believe most of the player base should just quit the game because outside of them they all suck. Heres a suggestion, why don't all you super awesome special snowflakes get together and faceroll HC then snuggle with each other when you are done and leave the rest of us alone, my god you uber snowflakes just wear on most peoples last nerve.

I don't think anyone (or at least the majority) are saying that at all. I don't recall reading any "omg im awesome and you suck" posts here really. It is just a lively discussion about LAZY people and the effect the boost has when combined. I think most people realise that this particular issue is a short term issue where there is a sudden influx of instant 90s all at once while 90 is still max level. This situation is unlikely to repeat itself (unless blizzard do a boost to 100 before the expansion following from WoD) and will blow over in a couple of weeks.

[Sansnom]

Let me give you an example.

Let's say WoW is a school system. Their job is to teach you and help you grow. Well, the issue here is that they're too lazy for that and they want everyone to pass and move on to the next grade with minimal work on their part. So they essentially decide to skip the beginning grades. Now there's no elementary school. You skip pass 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and all the way to High School senior year. So now new students who are joining the school - IE 5 and 6 year olds are now with the other seniors.

Or even better, it's like WoW is like a restaurant. You order a FULL meal (salad, soup, entree, dessert) and when you start eating your meal you discover the food tastes like crap - the salad is plain and unimaginative, the steak is well done and bland, and the soup tastes like tears of regret. Now the waiters and Chef understand that the food is terrible, but instead of taking the food back to the kitchen and improving it in some way, they shrug and bring you out your dessert. And it's a really nice dessert - one of your favorites. And you don't mind that the first couple entrees were awful because the dessert is REALLY awesome. Only issue is you're forced to keep eating that same dessert for another year.

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The problem here, is the 90 boost is the result of Blizzard being lazy - yet again. The major issue with MoP is that alt-leveling was at a bare minimum. Not many people were doing it. Why? Because they've made it mind-numbing and boring. So instead of addressing the issues with the leveling system and trying to improve it in some way, they just decided to give everyone 90 boosts and be done with it.

Your example is, I must say, rather unique. I do not understand at all how your examples relate to boost 90.

If I recall, the forums were full of people asking for the ability to "buy" a high level characters after the DK at 55 was introduced. So if you want to blame anyone, blame your fellow fans. Not Blizzard.

[Cassidin]

Actually these 'uber snowflakes' are people who want to be rewarded properly for putting some more effort into game than your average 'Jimmy, 16, dad doesn't let me play after 22'... I may understand that some people don't have time to raid normals/HCs and progress 2-3 nights a week, so they chose easier version which is LFR, but still they had to take their time and gear their character properly. Now bunch of people just jump into ToT/SoO with shittiest gear and screw others' fun.

To be fair.... they have 483 gear which is what people were in when they started ToT originally (sure some had bought some VP items but not everyone). They are in "level appropriate" gear but most people simply outgear the instance now and expect everyone else to.

[Deleted]

So what I am hearing there are quite a few massively awesome people on these boards that believe most of the player base should just quit the game because outside of them they all suck.

I was boosting a friend of mine in LFR yesterday, the tank had 450k health, non-enchanted gear and even some non-tanking gear on (spirit is the best tanking stat on a monk, I hear). Without me and a few other people in the group being laughably over-geared for the content it would have literally been a wipefest for the rest of the group. Even had a few guys whisper me after the raid thanks for making the whole thing a "0 wipes" run.

I don't think you need to be a "snowflake" to have the common sense of at least preparing for the instance by having some basic gear.

[Huggykaze]

To be fair.... they have 483 gear which is what people were in when they started ToT originally (sure some had bought some VP items but not everyone). They are in "level appropriate" gear but most people simply outgear the instance now and expect everyone else to.

Since when 483 greens are as good as 483 epix? I don't remind having more than one or 2 greens with that ilvl on char. And I had some TI gear which boosted ilvl a lot.

People went to ToT with 483 gear, right, but they were full/mostly epic, which creates the big difference. I don't mind seeing people with few green/blue items, but all green? They should at least run some mogu'shan, klaxxi raid (don't remember the name) and terrace. But then they won't be able to get free epix from ToT.

[Pann]

If I recall, the forums were full of people asking for the ability to "buy" a high level characters after the DK at 55 was introduced. So if you want to blame anyone, blame your fellow fans. Not Blizzard.

I can remember people asking for other characters to have the ability start at level 55 when DKs were introduced but not a single request to actually hand over real money for the privilege of not paying the game. But yeah it was totally the players that produced a dull and tedious levelling experience.

[Shiny212]

If boosting to 90 in a mmo was in scripture it'd be one of the things described an abomination.

[Giscoicus]

I was boosting a friend of mine in LFR yesterday, the tank had 450k health, non-enchanted gear and even some non-tanking gear on (spirit is the best tanking stat on a monk, I hear). Without me and a few other people in the group being laughably over-geared for the content it would have literally been a wipefest for the rest of the group. Even had a few guys whisper me after the raid thanks for making the whole thing a "0 wipes" run.

I don't think you need to be a "snowflake" to have the common sense of at least preparing for the instance by having some basic gear.

No, you are clearly. Snowflake. Having basic expectations is an elitist practice only done by special snowflakes who base they life around the game and care about their epeen.