Reason's behind disgust at 60$ for level 90 chars

[plaits]

Pay2win ? Attaining level cap hasn't been seen as " winning " since Vanilla, get real...

It wasn't winning then, either. "The game begins at 60", was a saying back then. End game has always been the aim.

A lot of people also seem to forget that MoP is in its twilight, and very soon 90 will be 10 levels under max level. Who cares if people will get a free 90 so they can run SoO LFR to kill time until Warlords comes out? That's not exactly what I'd call winning.

[Surfd]

Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".

How would EITHER of those things fix the problem. Scaling Gear down? Who the hell would actually use that?. I am not going to "de-level" myself on my level 100 druid to go quest with a buddy on their level 20 toon when I could be doing things that would actually benefit said level 100 druid in current content. Which is the entire point. The point is to get low level characters into current content as quickly as possible, not the other way around.
And increased EXP while leveling with friends is just another form of Heirlooms / Guild Perk / RAF, which, incase you missed half the thread, are part of the problem of why leveling sucks in the first place.

Do you even think before you post these things?

[xcess]

Yeah better they allow ppl use their free 90 now so they can actually learn and practice their class with actual raiding than just questing in WOD.

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Do you even think before you post these things?

Yeah lol some ppl here are suggesting all these things like "OMG thy should do this blah blah when its ALREADY IN THE GAME. Its obvious ppl who are complaining don't know bout RAF, SOR, Elixir of knowlegde etc and all the ways that ppl have fasttracked to lv90 ALREADY. So what if ppl decide to use their boosts at lvl 60 ? cos they like vanilla levelling but Outlands and Northrend areas just suck for them would that make them better ?

[Ordinator]

How would EITHER of those things fix the problem. Scaling Gear down? Who the hell would actually use that?. I am not going to "de-level" myself on my level 100 druid to go quest with a buddy on their level 20 toon when I could be doing things that would actually benefit said level 100 druid in current content. Which is the entire point. The point is to get low level characters into current content as quickly as possible, not the other way around.
And increased EXP while leveling with friends is just another form of Heirlooms / Guild Perk / RAF, which, incase you missed half the thread, are part of the problem of why leveling sucks in the first place.

Do you even think before you post these things?

Calm down. You really do sound like a ridiculous teenager lashing out like that.

I guess the problem is subjective. You believe the problem is having to be at end game doing the same thing you'd do as leveling. I see the problem as making the game fun again while reintroducing the social aspect. Right now, even at max level there isn't social interaction. They had an opportunity to introduce some form of that and to help the leveling problem.

Instead, in classic Blizzard fashion, they cashed out and you're buying it.

[-Superman-]

That's a very, very big conclusion to jump to.

Think about another game you play with a cash option. We'll borrow SW:TOR for a moment. Let's say when you joined SW:TOR you got your first lvl 50 for free. Then, if you wanted a 2nd one, your choices were to level one for free OR shell out another $60 after you JUST PAID $60 for the game. I am not saying it is improbable a new player would use this service, I am simply saying a long term fan, with a desire to try a new class, who just cannot stand leveling a certain class, would take advantage of it more.

Take your least favorite class, after how ever many years you've played. You know the one. The one you just can't get past lvl 37 (or whatever level it is). Now, you can level it for free to 90, or you can boost it. Which path do you choose? Now, you are a new player. You have never rolled that class before, you have no idea how frustrating it is. Are you gonna boost it? Or are you gonna give it a free try first? The new player will always TRY the class first, and pay later. The old player knows the classes and frustrations involved and will go right for the boost.

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I've played WoW for years and I'm passionate about it. Blizzard selling boosts in their very own game is a giant hit to WoWs integrity, and in that regard it does effect me personally.

I have too. Just got my 2nd loremaster title and colors on my 3rd account. The only way the boost could have been avoided was to go back into the zones, reduce the quests from 100 down to 15-20, increase the XP gained, tell the story faster in a more streamlined manner, reduce the time spent at certain hubs, move characters through EVERY zone in the game to get their XP, instantly add the FP to the next spot, and REMOVE XP FROM DUNGEONS.

If Dungeons were for GEAR ONLY, people might take more interest in streamlined content. But, as it stands, we have the same old content for 4 years, we outlevel the zones we are in, we are not given the next FP in the chain, and Dungeon grinding is a more efficient method of getting to 90. So, until there is a complete revamp of EVERY ZONE IN THE GAME, and the quests are reduced to 15 instead of 100-130, people might take more interest in questing. Until then, this is just another bandaid like CRZ. Only difference is, those of us who haven't the urge to do 3500 quests per character anymore, or grind dungeons, would rather just pay the convenience fee to move past 40 hours of trivial leveling and get to the last 10 levels to see the current content.

I'm sorry your game is changing, and that it is affecting you. But your anger is misplaced on the players. You should be more pissed at Blizz for a huge design flaw and an ever growing ceiling while not providing new low level content with the high level content. Maybe if ALL the quests changed, even slightly with each new expansion, it would feel like time is marching forward. Instead, Anything before Pandaria really belongs in the Caverns of Time.

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I am sorry but I don't buy that (10 hours to 70). There are things that take time, moving between levels, getting gold for flying, bags, AH visits, etc. Without RAF, or any other boosts I can't see how that's possible. Even the power-leveling guys take 3-4 days to level a character to 80. That said the leveling process gets slower as you go.

Anyone who hits 90 that fast: Is a monk, in BoA gear, with daily XP bonus, with lvl 25 guild perks, and tags in his roommates to play while he is asleep/at work.

Anyone who is not a monk, with any of those perks, or said roommates, would take at leat 40 hours of play time. I would rather spend $60, and spend that same 40 hours getting to level 100 and then leveling my profs.

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That means you can level while questing, doing dungeons, and battleground,

And those of us who have exhausted those items as resources, including Pet Battles, Exploration, and multiboxing for the RaF bonus and group XP, a boost is the next step in the evolutionary chain. I took one character from 1-90 doing just pet battles at Half Hill in the surrounding area (since there are no mobs around). Took a week, but it kept me out of the dungeons, and the old world and gave me something new to do. That is the main issue. Finding something NEW in the old content. New expansions always focus on end game. They never change or add content for leveling. Not since Cata. I get that this bothers you, but you are just going to have to find a way to cope. Cause it is happening, and we will be taking advantage of it.

[rhorle]

Then why didn't Blizzard address this problem instead of putting a very expensive band aid on it. People have offered solutions like scaling down gear so you can level with your friends, or increased exp boost while grouped with friends. Anything would be better than just saying "give us money and we'll give you lvls".

Do RaF and you and your new friend can play together. You can summon him, get increased rep and experience, and grant levels. The level boost is addressing a very specific scenario, that of returning players. Level scaling still won't help them as they would still have to go through old content just to get to the new content that all of their friends are consuming.

The same advantages people have said a boosted character gains by being boosted would be lost by scaling yourself down to help a friend. Scaling new content is silly and removes any drive to level. It would also have a whole slew of balance issues when a player doesn't have X ability because of their level not earning it yet. Balance is easier and works far better when the abilities players have are fixed.

Besides this isn't a band aid. It is an evolution of RaF and SoR. Two popular programs for several years now. Programs that the community has embraced both for returning players, and for boosting their own characters up.

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Instead, in classic Blizzard fashion, they cashed out and you're buying it.

Nothing is stopping you from creating that social interaction yourself. Just being grouped with a low level person and helping them run instances, letting them ride on your two-person mount is enough to give them a boost to experience (through faster completion/kills). Blizzard hasn't cashed out. The only one not buying it is you, because you are not willing to do the fix you say is so much better.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8965476593 is a 11-16 hour power leveling service someone was selling for gold back in December (2013). You could do that for free for new players and use those same spots to boost them yourself. Teach them about their classes, impart knowledge.

The problem is that most people who ask for more social activities are unwilling to do them when forced or when highly rewarded for doing them. It isn't something that they are willing to do when they have the choice to do so.

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I've played WoW for years and I'm passionate about it. Blizzard selling boosts in their very own game is a giant hit to WoWs integrity, and in that regard it does effect me personally.

Then you would know, if you've played for years, that Blizzard has sold boosts for years in the form of SoR and RaF. That integrity is not suddenly changed just because they are offering it in a item shop. They've also given them away for free during Cataclysm (with gear whose look was exclusive to SoR, boost, and a free copy of Cataclysm). The integrity of the game with stood that.

I'm aggressively selfish because I support options for players? Everyone can level how they want, why is that bad? Someone buying levels won't impact you because Blizzard hasn't stopped support of leveling. Your leveling experience is exactly the same pre and post WoD boost. Blizzard also isn't gouging their player base as the boost is the cost of SoR yourself (they weren't gouging until now apparently) and is the cost of buying a second game license and leveling up the character yourself.

The cost is also 4-5 months of game time (4x15, or 5x13). That isn't gouging their player base. It is pricing it at exactly what they said the direct sale of a boost is designed for. Replacing the Account Merge shuffle of buying multiple boosts. Even if Blizzard wasn't selling the boost directly the cost would be the same but you wouldn't be running around like a chicken with its head cut off about gouging, integrity, or aggressive selfishness.

[TylerGamer84]

I'm still against the concept in general, but why slap a big pricetag on it, as opposed to making it a free service?

If it's so irrelevant, and if it's driving new players away from the game (both arguments hold some merit) then why isn't there a free OPTION to skip the content?

Pardon me for being cynical, but as a new player, buying WoD, MoP, battle chest etc, then receiving a free 90, then realizing if they want another character they have to either spend weeks in content for which they couldn't care less about (why would they care, they were able to skip it the first time) OR pay a whopping 60 DOLLARS (which is FAR more than the cost of a AAA game, for the record), you could imagine being more than a little peeved.

If the content's tedious and irrelevant, either find a remedy to this or make it SKIPPABLE for everyone, not just those with disposable income. How does that make any sense whatsoever? Is only their time worth something? This is a FANTASY game - why should IRL circumstances come into the equation, beyond paying for the game and subscription in the first place?

If the content's relevant and interesting, on the other hand, why offer the service to skip it in the first place? It still tells an amazing story, after all.

I think we all know the answer to this though.

$

OT - cookies to whichever mod renames the thread to "Reasons" instead of "Reason's"

Weeks? Have a friend who had never played and he got to 90 in less than a week. He quested and did dungeons and only played a few hours here and there because he has a job (so no playing the "he must have been on 24/7" card).

[-Superman-]

Weeks? Have a friend who had never played and he got to 90 in less than a week. He quested and did dungeons and only played a few hours here and there because he has a job (so no playing the "he must have been on 24/7" card).

90 levels still takes close to 40 hours of playtime. It is worth the $60 to spend that 40 hours doing something else.

[Halicia]

Pay2win ? Attaining level cap hasn't been seen as " winning " since Vanilla, get real...

What possible part of the game could you 'win' at, without attaining level cap ?

[-Superman-]

What possible part of the game could you 'win' at, without attaining level cap ?

Never really "win" anything in an MMO since it never ends and is constantly expanding. "Win" is a very fluid and subjective concept and really has no place in an MMO.

[Radish Spirit]

Weeks? Have a friend who had never played and he got to 90 in less than a week. He quested and did dungeons and only played a few hours here and there because he has a job (so no playing the "he must have been on 24/7" card).

90 in less than a week playing a "few hours here and there?"

Seriously? Why say something so obviously untrue? That's not even mathematically possible.

[rhorle]

90 in less than a week playing a "few hours here and there?"

Seriously? Why say something so obviously untrue? That's not even mathematically possible.

Well it is mathematically possible. People were selling power leveling (for gold) that would take 11-16 hours for 1-90. Thats only 1.5 to 2.3 hours a day of play. It all matters how you use your time played. Most people are inefficient, and don't care that they are.

[-Superman-]

Well it is mathematically possible. People were selling power leveling (for gold) that would take 11-16 hours for 1-90. Thats only 1.5 to 2.3 hours a day of play. It all matters how you use your time played. Most people are inefficient, and don't care that they are.

Even ignoring Professions, and not gathering anything, and using my Zygor with all the short cuts, 1-90 is still at MINIMUM 30 hours of play time. Even the guy doing it ON video for a world first as a monk with all the perks still took 23 hours.

[Pann]

Well it is mathematically possible. People were selling power leveling (for gold) that would take 11-16 hours for 1-90. Thats only 1.5 to 2.3 hours a day of play. It all matters how you use your time played. Most people are inefficient, and don't care that they are.

It is not possible to level from 1-90 in 11-16 hours unless boosts such as RAF were used and even then it would still be difficult to reach level ninety in this time frame.

[rhorle]

Even ignoring Professions, and not gathering anything, and using my Zygor with all the short cuts, 1-90 is still at MINIMUM 30 hours of play time. Even the guy doing it ON video for a world first as a monk with all the perks still took 23 hours.

Being power leveled by someone drastically speeds up that process.

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It is not possible to level from 1-90 in 11-16 hours unless boosts such as RAF were used and even then it would still be difficult to reach level ninety in this time frame.

Then you don't know how to be efficient and work the system. 85-90 is possible in 5-6 hours and there have been several methods to do it that way over the course of the expansion.

[Pann]

Being power leveled by someone drastically speeds up that process.

How? They might be more experienced than the average player and know the best zones or quests to take but they are still limited by the game's levelling mechanics.

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Then you don't know how to be efficient and work the system. 85-90 is possible in 5-6 hours and there have been several methods to do it that way over the course of the expansion.

Obviously not, perhaps you could explain how to work the system?

[-Superman-]

Being power leveled by someone drastically speeds up that process.

As I mentioned, unless it is all those perks PLUS RaF gifted levels, it cannot be done in less than 23 hours. I do calculations as part of my job and have been playing for 7 years. Anyone who says it is done in under 23 hours is using RaF or SoR, or is a liar and doesn't want to lose face.

[Gray_Matter]

90 levels still takes close to 40 hours of playtime. It is worth the $60 to spend that 40 hours doing something else.

Isn't the 40 hours supposed to be fun? When it becomes "work" that justifies a payment to get around then there is a problem. All of the suggestions are around getting to max level as quickly as possible. How about making it more interesting? That's why I suggested a paths approach. Let people work their way through the content by doing zones but skipping a large number of them. Just give level appropriate XP for up to 5 levels higher than the zone. At the end of the zone have a choice of scenarios which take the person to another zone. That way, alts could be relatively fresh with people skipping large parts on one char and then do other zones on the next char. They could easily make the leveling experience fresh for up to 5 or 6 chars. It would also be a lot faster to level.

[-Superman-]

Isn't the 40 hours supposed to be fun? When it becomes "work" that justifies a payment to get around then there is a problem. All of the suggestions are around getting to max level as quickly as possible. How about making it more interesting? That's why I suggested a paths approach. Let people work their way through the content by doing zones but skipping a large number of them. Just give level appropriate XP for up to 5 levels higher than the zone. At the end of the zone have a choice of scenarios which take the person to another zone. That way, alts could be relatively fresh with people skipping large parts on one char and then do other zones on the next char. They could easily make the leveling experience fresh for up to 5 or 6 chars. It would also be a lot faster to level.

Here's how I could see leveling working:

1. Reduce the number of quests per zone to 15. Each zone should take 30-40 minutes to clear.
2. Adjust XP to scale based on gear, or provide toggle on BoA gear to maintain all stats except XP gain (for certain people)
3. Open/unlock the next Flight path when a zone is cleared
4. Allow different quests to pick from each NPC. This changes the "routine" questing and customizes your story path more.
5. Eliminate XP in Dungeons to prevent over leveling. Dungeon XP is disabled by default and has to be enabled in the interface. This keeps the Dungeon in line with the story being told in the zone.
6. Allow account wide rep, toggled off by default. This prevents unnecessary grinding on multiple toons.

This would improve the leveling process and provide alternatives. Would it work? I think so. Would I likely level again if I could level in 12 hours of gameplay instead of 40. Will Blizz ever implement something like this? No. They know they can make money on an optional service and the more you have to play, the more they get paid. Now, the less you have to play, they are still getting paid.

People need to concern themselves less with how others spend their own money. If we thought Blizz might listen, we might try. But since they don't really listen or care, at least they are offering an option to bypass shit I've seen hundreds of times.

[Deleted]

Isn't the 40 hours supposed to be fun? When it becomes "work" that justifies a payment to get around then there is a problem. All of the suggestions are around getting to max level as quickly as possible. How about making it more interesting?

Exactly my thoughts.


And if they really are that clueless, they could have given us free 90 boost with very long cooldown (like one year) to prevent mass boosting instead of the $60 scam. There are people that are really sh1tting with money irl, and it wont do ANYTHING to prevent them boosting whole account. I know it means more MONEY for Bobby Kotick, but at least stop with these stupic excuses about $60 being "barrier price", because it really isnt.