Reason's behind disgust at 60$ for level 90 chars

[Deianeira]

I don't want to rain on your parade but there are a few things I'd like to mention.

Today it doesn't take as long to level as it did in the past. Back in the day it took infinitely longer to level 1-60 then it does today to level 1-90. Unlocking a dungeon was a major benchmark. Sometimes you spent weeks or months grinding Deadmines, Scarlet Monastery or Uldaman. Getting to from 30 to 40 was a massive achievement that took endless grinding. This situation persisted pretty much all the way until WotLK when Heirlooms and lowered mount costs and level requirements made alts a viable option.

While leveling today teaches you nothing, (you can pretty much afk dungeons, bot BGs or autorun quests 1-90) in the past it did teach you tons of stuff. One of them being patience. Like when you had to run 10 minutes back an forth on foot just to pick up and deliver a single quest that only rewarded 2% of your xp bar and was 5 levels under yours because it was in a zone that was 10 levels over the quest level you learned that 1, Dying was not fun (corpse run on foot at normal runspeed) 2, You preferred to go the long way round a group of mobs because it was safer.

What leveling used to teach you wasn't your classes abilities, but patience and situational awareness. Plus it gave you time to learn about things like addons, agro, other class abilities.

I'm not against the level 90 boost. I used it myself. What bothers me is the total and utter lack of a learning curve in the game at this moment. You can go 1 to 90 without learning anything about being a team player, about being aware about your environment or anything. You hit 90 (booster or not) being utterly unaware of anything, go into 5 man HCs and you stay utterly unaware of anything (let's be honest 5 mans are a joke), you go to Timeless Isle, running around doing nothing staying utterly unaware, then you step into LFR or Flex and is a total and utter disaster as both are totally out of your league. Unfortunatly you might get lucky in LFR get carried, again learn nothing, which means you are "ready" for Flex or Normals.

WoW needs some of type of a learning curve back in the game. One that works, is not utterly broken, and actually teaches people to play the damn game again.

Damn all you jsut said is SPOT ON!! This is the problem. One dont "really" learn your class by levelling 1-90 manually!

[Giscoicus]

Tell me exactly WHAT i do win when i use this service?

Realize that the term P2W has NEVER meant having a big YOU WIN!!! Screen popup. It is buying an advantage, and always have been. This is buying an advantage, plain and simple.

You shit logical can be applie to selling gear as well, as you don't WIN anything by having gear.

[Pozz]

*snip*

This bloke hits pretty close to my feelings on the subject. I dislike new people being able to buy their way to 90, due to them not knowing how to play. Personally I'm fine with people that already have a few max chars being able to (preferably by some other means than $$) boost their way to the 'fun end of the spectre.'

At the same time I do realize there's not really any point of the leveling system any more as the above person said, everything is so damn easy you don't have to adapt and learn at all.

In its current state, leveling might as well not exist as it serves no purpose. You don't learn anything, there's no challenges and the story you get is outdated compared to current expansion. All it is here for is to delay hitting max level, and you can now pay for that unnecesary delay to go away, this bothers me. Either Blizz should work on making leveling purposeful, or remove it altogether (this said as a person that actually likes leveling new characters, but sadly gets bored due to un-challenging content) not try to spin gold out of the lackluster content.

In short. I don't mind people with prior high level toons to skip content, my belief is that new people should experience the world and be challenged in it before moving to the end game, and that paying to skip lackluster content might be a good move from a money-making point of view, but it does taint my view on the Blizzard team a bit from an ethical and moral point of view.

Just my 0.02$

[Merpish]

3)They didn't EARN it like I did!

Because leveling 1-90 is really earning something.

[Giscoicus]

Because leveling 1-90 is really earning something.

It is though. It's not as big of an accomplishment as other things in the game, but it is still an accomplishment.

What defines something as being small enough to pay to skip over? I wouldn't say LFR or BGs take much more than leveling, would there be a problem with buying gear to skip those? Is winning a random BG such an accomplishment that paying for honor would be ridiculous?

[Lochton]

Mod-note: Merged two threads together as they are basicly the same topic. Please do avoid making multiple threads of the same topic to help keep the forum a little more clean. This current post is the front/First starting post from this user's thread "Why so much hate for boosting to 90"

[Deleted]

I don't want to rain on your parade but there are a few things I'd like to mention.

Today it doesn't take as long to level as it did in the past. Back in the day it took infinitely longer to level 1-60 then it does today to level 1-90. Unlocking a dungeon was a major benchmark. Sometimes you spent weeks or months grinding Deadmines, Scarlet Monastery or Uldaman. Getting to from 30 to 40 was a massive achievement that took endless grinding. This situation persisted pretty much all the way until WotLK when Heirlooms and lowered mount costs and level requirements made alts a viable option.

While leveling today teaches you nothing, (you can pretty much afk dungeons, bot BGs or autorun quests 1-90) in the past it did teach you tons of stuff. One of them being patience. Like when you had to run 10 minutes back an forth on foot just to pick up and deliver a single quest that only rewarded 2% of your xp bar and was 5 levels under yours because it was in a zone that was 10 levels over the quest level you learned that 1, Dying was not fun (corpse run on foot at normal runspeed) 2, You preferred to go the long way round a group of mobs because it was safer.

What leveling used to teach you wasn't your classes abilities, but patience and situational awareness. Plus it gave you time to learn about things like addons, agro, other class abilities.

I'm not against the level 90 boost. I used it myself. What bothers me is the total and utter lack of a learning curve in the game at this moment. You can go 1 to 90 without learning anything about being a team player, about being aware about your environment or anything. You hit 90 (booster or not) being utterly unaware of anything, go into 5 man HCs and you stay utterly unaware of anything (let's be honest 5 mans are a joke), you go to Timeless Isle, running around doing nothing staying utterly unaware, then you step into LFR or Flex and is a total and utter disaster as both are totally out of your league. Unfortunatly you might get lucky in LFR get carried, again learn nothing, which means you are "ready" for Flex or Normals.

WoW needs some of type of a learning curve back in the game. One that works, is not utterly broken, and actually teaches people to play the damn game again.

This a thousand times. Also, personally I don't think there's any major difference in leveling from 1-90 in MoP than it is to get the actual boost to 90. Oldschoolers have complained about how easy it is to level in MoP as it is and this boost is sorta what tipped it over the edge, I guess.

[-Superman-]

Realize that the term P2W has NEVER meant having a big YOU WIN!!! Screen popup. It is buying an advantage, and always have been. This is buying an advantage, plain and simple.

You shit logical can be applie to selling gear as well, as you don't WIN anything by having gear.

Pay to win is a subjective term. It means something different to everyone. Otherwise, your insult to this person might never have happened.

[Merpish]

It is though. It's not as big of an accomplishment as other things in the game, but it is still an accomplishment.

I guess it's subjective, I've leveled so many times that hitting 90 for me is just a "meh" feeling. I generally hit 90, then start another toon, mostly because I'm sick of the character that I just leveled.

[Deleted]

I guess it's subjective, I've leveled so many times that hitting 90 for me is just a "meh" feeling. I generally hit 90, then start another toon, mostly because I'm sick of the character that I just leveled.

I look at my fresh 90 and go "meh" because it will struggle to kill a Timeless Isle mob without losing 75% of its health. And realise I just left one grind to hit another.

[-Superman-]

I guess it's subjective, I've leveled so many times that hitting 90 for me is just a "meh" feeling. I generally hit 90, then start another toon, mostly because I'm sick of the character that I just leveled.

Off topic: Love your signature line Looks very familiar.

On Topic: I agree. Every feeling in this game is subjective. Just because I am saddened by southshore, does not mean some hordie won't come in and laugh, and tell me how much better it is now.

[rhorle]

Try being in a lfr with a bunch a pay to boosts dps in nothing but greens, and no knowledge of their class.... that's why the hate!

You do realize that the boost only gives you 483 greens? And there are no 496 greens. But the item color matters little as long as the item level is there as that is all that matters anymore in WoW. Knowledge of your class might be a bigger problem with boosted characters but it still exists because leveling your class doesn't teach you end game play.

And a skilled player will be able to play any class because the basic mechanics stay the same. So you are only complaining about bad players which existed before the boost was offered.

[Jotaux]

Well what price do you want it to be? It can't be like $600 because then people would just buy a new game and xfer a insta-90 over. It can't be too low because then we would have millions of these fresh 90s running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I think $60 is a good price, and I am considering boosting a warlock.

[rhorle]

If I had to put the effort into it - so should you.

So did you also clear every raid before leveling in the new expansion? Did you only use gear and abilities from launch? Effort involved being reduced by new changes is nothing new to MMO's and nothing new to WoW. If that is still a concern for you then you probably dislike far more then a simple character boost. One that won't impact you, if you've already put the effort in. Because you've already reaped the rewards for putting that effort in one hundred fold if not more.

[-Superman-]

You do realize that the boost only gives you 384 greens? And there are no 496 greens. But the item color matters little as long as the item level is there as that is all that matters anymore in WoW. Knowledge of your class might be a bigger problem with boosted characters but it still exists because leveling your class doesn't teach you end game play.

And a skilled player will be able to play any class because the basic mechanics stay the same. So you are only complaining about bad players which existed before the boost was offered.

I'm sure you meant 483 gear, not 384.

[rhorle]

How would selling LFR gear be different?

Because you are circumventing mechanics to grant gear. Everyone is only allowed one chance at loot per lock out, and a second chance if they use a bonus roll. By selling gear you are creating an unfair advantage because you can't get that third chance at gear for that week with out paying real money. While the boost does offer some in-game items you can't get through normal leveling up the meat of the stuff gained is experience. The same experience you gain with out using the boost. The same levels, the same level based achievements, the same period.

A boost 90, and a leveled 90 are the same mechanics wise. That is why selling gear, of any sort, is different then selling experience.