New/returning raiders.. why even try raiding?

[IllidariCouncil]

So to new & or returning old raiders. Why even try raiding right now in WoW?

Seriously.. Ive raided since late LK up to DS in a really good raiding guild. MoP came out so I went and tried PvP for a while and 5.4 I wanted to get back into raiding. So when did raiding become a elitist fest? 540+ flex.. 550+ normal? Must have cloak? Shitting me? So you're telling me that you have to have a item level above what you cant even achieve to do flex/normal and only way to get that item level is to do those? Timeless isle & LFR is the only options for people that dont meet these crazy requirements. Hows a casual suppose to raid? I guess in this new raiding world.. you dont. Not evenyone can play ya know 10 hours or more a day. for item levels. Remind you I am not complaining for me, because after a week or so of searching I found a guild not even from my server, not even someone from my guild that is willing to carry me and help me out to gear up. My own guild wont even run their low level geared players through flex to help gear them up. So me & a few guildies have left and I have just been raiding with a guild where I know no one.. dont even know the leader and right off dont even remember the guild name & they run me through flex and normal no questions asked, no ilvl bullshit nothing & been doing it for 2 weeks now. So my question is now, why should someone thats new to raiding be subject to put up with this none sense of people thats been raiding all expansion put a number you have to get to be apart of raiding. It doesn't matter what item level you have obviously so I wouldent be getting runs right now. My dps is right up there with the people that has 540+ (mine being 515) I just dont see why someone that would want to raid put up with the restrictions on getting into pugs. The guild aspect is simple, if a guild wants you to raid, tells you to get a higher item level then you can raid with them well then one option, leave. If someone isn't willing to help you out, you should not stick around to help them.

Its funny really, Im raiding with a guild cross server with people I dont even know that I found on OQ, and friends/guild mates on my own server aren't willing to spend a hour from sitting in org doing nothing to help out their own guildies. Sorry its just a little rant I had to get off my chest. Let me have some feedback, if you're new to raiding.. what your experiences have been like. I know 99% of ppl on here will complain but oh well.

Note: Why not join another guild then? Im on a high pop server, Ive been in 5+ guilds since 5.4 released & I started to try and raid. Its these kids attitudes and disrespect for new comers that leave sourer taste in peoples mouths.

[Glurp]

To find a guild in preparation for WoD?

Your entire post seems like a whingy pile of crap because you're too lazy to commit to a raid group and only want to pug. You should also probably stop using casual as an excuse because it's a very bad one. I know plenty of casual players who have the required skill level to do anything, saying you can't join a guild because your casual is stupid, there are ten of thousands of guilds who all raid at different levels and have different attendance/time requirements, sure you're not going to join Blood Legion as a casual player but that doesn't mean you just give up and make cry posts on forums all day.

[Zharradan]

I came back to raiding in the middle of this patch, about 3 months ago, I play 2 days a week (saturday and sunday) mostly, Your crying because you can't convince people to let you in? lel

[IllidariCouncil]

Your crying because you can't convince people to let you in? lel

Like I said, I finally found people that will take me into raids without having stupid high requirements. Im mostly commenting about the time it took to find what I found & how I did. Its people with your attitude that makes me want to quit raiding all together and go back to pvp. The game is suppose to be fun, why should people have to deal with everyone telling them to get better gear, better this and that to have fun?

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To find a guild in preparation for WoD?

Your entire post seems like a whingy pile of crap because you're too lazy to commit to a raid group and only want to pug. You should also probably stop using casual as an excuse because it's a very bad one. I know plenty of casual players who have the required skill level to do anything, saying you can't join a guild because your casual is stupid, there are ten of thousands of guilds who all raid at different levels and have different attendance/time requirements, sure you're not going to join Blood Legion as a casual player but that doesn't mean you just give up and make cry posts on forums all day.

Im just stating that making someone have certain requirements to join your guild or pug is stupid. Must have 14/14exp like stfu. People can do just fine with what they have. Im not using causal as an excuse, I play around 2 hours a day 3 days a week. You tell me how other than LFR/timeless you can get 540ilvl without a guild or pug to help you out? Read the post, dont just say its a crying thread, post a smarty remark and leave.

[Bllets]

Seriously.. Ive raided since late LK up to DS in a really good raiding guild. MoP came out so I went and tried PvP for a while and 5.4 I wanted to get back into raiding. So when did raiding become a elitist fest? 540+ flex.. 550+ normal? Must have cloak? Shitting me? So you're telling me that you have to have a item level above what you cant even achieve to do flex/normal and only way to get that item level is to do those?

It's been like this since fucking Vanilla, how can you have been raiding for two expansions and not notice this? You most likely did it yourself, and never thought about it until now when you are on the other side.

The reason for the high requirements are because people want a smooth run to get 1-2 specific items and a chance at killing Garrosh and most of the time a high ilvl shows the character has done some or all of the content before.

You can reach 530 and 540 even without stepping inside Flex and be completely clueless about mechanics, but at least 540 means you invested in your character.

I recently joined a 555 Flex group to clear from 1-4 and it went smoothly all the way and was a fast clear. When I did the same about 3 weeks ago in a 525 group it took 4½-5 hours and was a pain in the ass.

[britishbubba]

Im just stating that making someone have certain requirements to join your guild or pug is stupid. Must have 14/14exp like stfu.

Their group, their rules. Having full normal exp for a pug isn't something new, I remember it being VERY common back in cata.

You tell me how other than LFR/timeless you can get 540ilvl without a guild or pug to help you out? Read the post, dont just say its a crying thread, post a smarty remark and leave.

I've gotten into pug flex groups on sub 530 alts before, just have to be willing to look. And then there is two pieces of 553 crafted gear (belt and pants) that you can get to shove your ilvl up. Celestials for 550/553 gear, and ordos for 559 gear.

[klogaroth]

Seriously.. Ive raided since late LK........ So when did raiding become a elitist fest?

So you raided in late LK and you don't remember gearscore?

I call shenanigans.

[IllidariCouncil]

I've gotten into pug flex groups on sub 530 alts before, just have to be willing to look. And then there is two pieces of 553 crafted gear (belt and pants) that you can get to shove your ilvl up. Celestials for 550/553 gear, and ordos for 559 gear.

I appreciate your comment. Before finding the group I run with now, trust me on OQ I was in many many pub flex raids that did nothing but wipe on trash and bosses all day. I have tried. Yeah alot of things drop gear, doesn't always mean you will get a piece and for someone coming in a month ago to try and raid that hasent got those chances. Its hard, its more than hard.. its not possible. But thanks for a comment that wasn't just saying "boohoo get over"

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So you raided in late LK and you don't remember gearscore?

I call shenanigans.

I remember gearscore. I how ever dont remember your own guildies after countless guilds not willing to help you gear up.

[Bllets]

I remember gearscore. I how ever dont remember your own guildies after countless guilds not willing to help you gear up.

That just means you need to find a better guild, nothing about the requirements for pugs.

[toomes211]

My friend recently rerolled on my server to raid with us. It has been a pain gearing him up, but my guild and friends on my server have been helpful with carrying through flex/starting to do carries on norm to get him geared to heal for our 25m. He's been 90 for 12 days, gotten almost no drops from LFR and absolutely nothing from flex, and worked his pants off just to get to 530 to get into our norm raid.

That said, I also know people that only run LFR every week, along with world bosses, and are currently sitting at 553 ilvl. It's not HARD to get that, but it takes a long time.

[Tyler-Stormrage]

You can get a 554 ilvl without setting foot in a flex. Not that hard. this is assuming all pieces are double upgraded.
I saw in your recent posts that you have been playing a warlock. BiS list (destro), 554 ilvl, no flex, normal, or HC pieces.

(536) Immaculately Preserved Wand
(536) Revelations of Y'shaarj
(536) Hood of the Horned Nightmare
(567) Penate's Perilous Pendant
(536) Mantle of the Horned Nightmare
(608) Xing-Ho, Breath of Yu'lon
(567) Ulmaas' Robes of Crushing Magma
(567) Bjam's Blasting Bracers
(561) Gloves of the Horned Nightmare
(567) Venruki's Venerable Sash
(561) Leggings of the Horned Nightmare
(550) Prideful Gladiator's Treads of Cruelty
(550) Prideful Gladiator's Band of Accuracy
(550) Prideful Gladiator's Band of Cruelty
(536) Purified Bindings of Immerseus
(536) Kardris' Toxic Totem

I included the Legendary Cape and the drops off Ordos because the cape is easily obtainable even in LFR. I have 2 characters who have their orange pixels without ever setting foot in a normal or flex raid. Even without those, your ilvl can still be as high as 546.

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Its hard, its more than hard.. its not possible.

Yeah, Definitely possible. Joined a raid team on my alt enhancement shaman after being 90 for a week and a half. Now progressing on heroic Shamans. Stop blaming the world and take some initiative. Become a better player, let your logs speak louder than your ilvl. Anyone can get more gear, its much harder to find someone who isn't shit at their class.

[Deleted]

Maybe just make your own group? Instead of crying that someone wants smooth runs for flex and dont wanna wipe there hours because you need to carry someone there just put your own group up.. You said that your ilvl is 515. Run more LFR and Flex 1-2, kill Celestials and use bonusroll. Wont take long and you are in flex 3-4 groups.

I did flex 3 couple days ago. +535 14/14 flex exp req and i also asked to explain some boss tacs before i invited them to group. We did flex 3 in 35-40 mins. And after that part 4. Smooth and fun. And if i dont make my own group i dont even join groups who dont ask experience and high enough ilvl.

Also it's really stupid to cry about your guild who dont wanna boost you trough flex and get free gear for you? How about you join guild who is running flex only? My guild is atm doing flex and it sucks to boost and carry people there who have no idea how to play and we are planning to drop those flex runs out. PuG it and if you cant then it's too bad. I'm happy that we have good 10 man team so we can run normals.

[klogaroth]

I remember gearscore. I how ever dont remember your own guildies after countless guilds not willing to help you gear up.

This is nothing new. There were people who couldn't be bothered boosting the second there was any sort of gap to boost people over. Both of us actually missed the time when boosting was much more of a pain in the ass - attunements. It's a sure bet that there were people who wouldn't have wanted to go back and do old content so someone returning could join in.

Yes it sucks that people don't want to help you catch up, but don't pretend it's something new.

[Aqua]

It's hard to get into raiding for a reason.

It's tough, it requires time commitments. It may feel like hoop jumping to you, but once you've invested the time in getting there, the raid group now knows you're at least half way there to being committed. Harsh? Maybe. But it makes heroic raiders.

You can get the gear you need to enter most normal pugs quite simply, those bars set? Usually aren't as high as you believe. As implied by above posters. All of us put in the effort. We didn't just collectively decide as a hive mind to be the ubr spr seekret elite club (which I am only a fringe member of these days) and put ourselves on top. We all clawed our way through trials and tribulations to get renown and gear and prove ourselves to our fellow players. Because we like a challenge, and we like challenges that force us to work with other people and make friends.

That really is it. That may blow your mind. If that's not your cup of tea, you're struggling for nothing. If it is? It's a cathartic scratch behind the ears like no other and I enjoy the hell out of it, otherwise I'd be out the door of WoW so fast you wouldn't even see my dust trail. It would already have dissipated.

So my question is now, why should someone thats new to raiding be subject to put up with this none sense of people thats been raiding all expansion

This? Stupidest question ever. Why is a starting player not instantly on the same level as someone who's been playing for 3 hours and is facing down the final boss?
BECAUSE GAME. DON'T LIKE GAME? DON'T PLAY GAME. Want game at end game? Play game. Don't like playing to game? Then play another game.

I'm making this sound harsher than it really is, but it's a choice like any other, do you want to struggle for (I assume normal? Heroic) raiding? Is it something you truly think you'll enjoy? Well the journey and struggle is half the game. If there's no block to it. Then why is this game not simply called 'raids'.


Raiding has always been the pinnacle of elitist snobbery. Right back up at the dawn of molten core (that douche with one purple always thought he was so sick didn't he) So why is this such a shock to the system to you?

[Deleted]

I kind of felt the same way when I returned early January this year. The thing with pugs is, you need time to find the right ones. And most people who do pugs don't have that time. I was kind of lucky with my Burdens of Eternity and got to ~515 gs and then found a nice group for flex 1. The following week I got some more upgrades and with having the exp from part 1 it was easy to find another pug, I progressed one flex part each week pretty much.

The thing that most people forget about is, getting into pugs mid-tier has always been tiresome if you haven't been raiding that tier at all. And regarding your point about guildies not wanting to help you gear up, this late into progression, people are mostly filling up spots of people who left. They don't want to get someone going from the start. What they want is someone who can join their progression. My advice: Either 1) gear up by going the PuG-progression path, 2) find some friends, 3) or get into a newly formed guild (pretty rare mid-tier).

[Zervek]

Gonna be a lot harder for you to find a guild once the first raid releases next expansion.

[klogaroth]

Not sure on your continent, faction or available times.......

But here's a flex run that's asking for 500+ ilvl. Not the 540+ that trade asks for.

http://openraid.eu/events/view/171811

There are raids out there that don't ask for silly ilvls, just in case anyone didn't believe me.

It's just a matter of spending some time finding them, as it always has been.

EDIT:

It's also worth remembering that if you are going in a group of appropriately geared characters to expect the content to be more challenging than roflstomping it with a bunch of normal/heroic geared characters in the raid. Nobody said it was going to be a walk in the park now.

[Constraint]

Do a tiny bit of research. There are SO MANY GUILDS taking in new people for normals! Sure, you won't find them if you just post in trade chat a few times - just look on a few recruitment forums.

Not to mention WoD - so many 10-man guilds are recruiting ruthlessly for WoD - just prove you're a decent player and lots of them will give you a chance.

It's just a matter of a tiny bit of effort. I've never been declined to a guild regardless of my gear level in all my years playing WoW - just write up a good application, put a bit of heart into it, tell them why you'll make a great addition to their raid team.

Even if your experience isn't that great, if you show you've researched your class, you know how to play etc, the overwhelmingly vast majority of guilds will give you a chance. Trust me on this.

[clevin]

Look, anytime you take off for most of an expansion and then come back in t he last patch (and LATE in the last patch) you have these issues. My question is the same, but meant differently... if you've taken off most of an expansion why do you want to raid at the very end when everything is over with?

[IllidariCouncil]

It's hard to get into raiding for a reason.

it's a choice like any other, do you want to struggle for (I assume normal? Heroic) raiding? Is it something you truly think you'll enjoy?

I dont know about anyone else but I just love being told Im not high enough, good enough geared enough to get into something. Thats just a ton of fun I love it.