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  1. #81
    High ilvl requirements are because legendary cloak buffs ilvl, so anyone under 540 is usually useless.

    For getting back into raiding it's really the same as it's always been, if you're legitimately a good player you shouldn't have any problem. I was only 550 ilvl a few weeks ago and because I had good logs from earlier in the xpac and past xpac experience I got into a guild that's 11/14 heroic and I'm close to being caught up in gear.

  2. #82
    Maybe I'm thinking too much like a Business major when I see a post like this...

    If they're wanting an high ilvl for a normal/flex, its probably because they are:

    (a) reducing the number of people that will ask to join their run (reducing the supply of raiders to fill their demand)
    (b) want an overqualified person (or people) on their run to make it smoother (increasing the quality of such supply of raiders, especially if very few are needed)
    (c) do not want to carry someone barely qualified or struggle with farm content (ensuring that "work" is completed at a set time)

    If you are already in guild with these people, why not discuss things rationally? Ask to sub in on a farm boss to show off what you can do with your ilvl and the potential to grab unneeded gear? Ask for their services (crafting mats, alt run) that would be a bit more work yet pay off in the long run? If you can get into a raid with them and they find that you're a competent player that just needs a helping hand, most groups will help you out, especially if you bring a good attitude and are likable. Remember, there needs to be some incentive for them to take you... you just need to get your foot in the door for them to find that incentive.

    If you tried the above and they still won't take you, then maybe its a bad fit and you should look elsewhere for your raiding needs.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavalashlol View Post
    See if he sat down with me or an officer in my guild and could give us a reason to bring him, Ilvl doesn't matter. He could go stand in a corner and collect loot, but he needs to articulate his worth to us, and when he's geared, he needs to prove it or be removed.
    You don't even need to go that far, you can tell a quality of a player by how much the person improves while collecting gear.

  4. #84
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by IllidariCouncil View Post
    True, thats why you avoid guilds like that and when they start to lose people.. it wont be as easy to replace them. You know with the long 2 hours or so to do all four wings of flex to gear up some of their lowbies.
    Thats not at all how it is, its rather the opposite. Progressing raidguilds have no trouble finding likeminded raiders that actually makes an effort to fit in guilds terms.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    High ilvl requirements are because legendary cloak buffs ilvl, so anyone under 540 is usually useless.

    For getting back into raiding it's really the same as it's always been, if you're legitimately a good player you shouldn't have any problem. I was only 550 ilvl a few weeks ago and because I had good logs from earlier in the xpac and past xpac experience I got into a guild that's 11/14 heroic and I'm close to being caught up in gear.
    This is very true. If you have a history of quality play any experienced GM or raid leader can figure this out though examination of your "resume" or body of gaming history, a basic interview and a few raids.

    I know this sounds like a lot of serious work for a game but look at it from a GM's perspective. A GM of a good guild has put a lot of work building a gaming environment that their other gamers/raiders/guildies trust him/her to maintain. It's not fair to the other players who have put their faith into the GM to allow players who may not fit in with their style of gaming complete initial freedom and trust. So.....the application, interview, trial.

    This is why I don't understand why so many people guild hop. If they were applying to solid guilds, done their homework, survived the whole vetting process, why dump guilds over small differences of opinion? That's like getting a divorce becasue you leave the toilet seat up or drink out of the milk carton.

  6. #86
    Deleted
    I'm sorry but 515 is a joke of an ilvl to try and do anything nowadays. Isn't that what you get first reset of dinging 90? Not sure, haven't leveled/geared an alt in a while.
    553 belt and legs crafted.
    522 helm and boots crafted.
    496 gloves and chest crafted.
    496 bracers from HoF on AH too if you're lucky.
    6 world bosses you can get lucky on.
    2 guaranteed burdens for 535 pieces that you can chose for slots where you struggle to find something.
    Grind some coins on timeless isle to buy 535 trinket.
    Bit of pvp for 498 weapon (or whatever the ilvl of the conquest weapon is).
    522 ring from valor.
    Any slots you haven't filled yet can be taken care of in ToT lfr where you can pretty much use endless coins on 1 or 2 specific bosses.

    There, we haven't even done SoO yet and even with absolutely no drops you're probably already passed 515.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feio View Post
    I kind of felt the same way when I returned early January this year. The thing with pugs is, you need time to find the right ones. And most people who do pugs don't have that time. I was kind of lucky with my Burdens of Eternity and got to ~515 gs and then found a nice group for flex 1. The following week I got some more upgrades and with having the exp from part 1 it was easy to find another pug, I progressed one flex part each week pretty much.

    The thing that most people forget about is, getting into pugs mid-tier has always been tiresome if you haven't been raiding that tier at all. And regarding your point about guildies not wanting to help you gear up, this late into progression, people are mostly filling up spots of people who left. They don't want to get someone going from the start. What they want is someone who can join their progression. My advice: Either 1) gear up by going the PuG-progression path, 2) find some friends, 3) or get into a newly formed guild (pretty rare mid-tier).
    This guy gets it btw. Rome isn't built on 1 day. Expecting to get into a full flex or normal group with an ilvl of 515 is hilarious considering you can get that easily in first week of hitting 90. You're mostly asking to get boosted and not much else. Find a guild that is willing to or suck it up and progress through pugs, which may be slower than you want, but pugging is not and never will be charity.

  7. #87
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oradraffe View Post
    It's very hard to "earn" it when you cant get in to pugs cause you need Experience, yet you cant get any cause of the requirement, and guilds ask the same. So you pretty much have to know someone just to get you into raiding. So People like me who would love to work hard for gear, dont get the chance.
    Bullshit. Run flex via openraid or oqueue. There you go, 540 drops. LFR? 528 and you don't even need to meet anyone's requirements. Have gold? there are some 553 crafted pieces. Have the legendary cloak? Kill Ordos. Don't have it? Take a shot each week at a Celestial for current tier in 2 slots.

    Everyone like you wants to start raiding normals the week you decide "Hey, I want to raid." and that's not reasonable. You've put off raiding until the last tier of the expansion and more than that (if you're starting now) until 5 months into that tier. Get off your ass and go LFR and Flex. Get at least close to what normal mode guilds want, then raid normals.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyadore View Post
    This is not REALLY true but kinda true.

    A lot of guilds don't have the variety of players/variety of experience I remember many guilds used to have. So many guilds have thinned their rosters to only have a certain type of player (heroic raiders don't have as many active social members, gear runs for alts are not as common, etc).

    BUT...I think that will change in WOD. With the expansion of flex raiding to include all raiding except Mythic, guilds will be willing to be more "flexible" with people who are coming in at different points in an expansion. Our guild is a heroic raiding guild and we have all kinds for raiding. Alt runs, normal runs, heroic progression, Flex Night, and social stuff. We let people show us what they got and filter into whatever they are capable of. However, I think our guild is more the exception than the rule nowadays.
    Nope, it's been like this the entire time. Guilds that have always achieved good rankings and fast progress do so for a reason. Efficiency.

  9. #89
    I had alts at 515 ilvl 6 months ago, and 4 of the 6 months between then and now I didn't play at all.

    - crafted 522 helm and boots
    - crafted 553 belt and pants
    - 522 chest gloves neck ring cloak and trinket from vp
    - 535 timeless trinket for 50k coins

    Only notable exemptions are shoulders and second ring...would recommend saving burden of eternity for those. Rest are super easy to farm. Should have you in the 530 range. Doesn't sound like much but I've had freshly dinged alts over 500 ilvl within the first week of dinging with minimal effort (timeless isle 496s plus vp neck and crafted 553s).

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpette View Post
    I'm sorry but 515 is a joke of an ilvl to try and do anything nowadays. Isn't that what you get first reset of dinging 90? Not sure, haven't leveled/geared an alt in a while.
    553 belt and legs crafted.
    522 helm and boots crafted.
    496 gloves and chest crafted.
    496 bracers from HoF on AH too if you're lucky.
    6 world bosses you can get lucky on.
    2 guaranteed burdens for 535 pieces that you can chose for slots where you struggle to find something.
    Grind some coins on timeless isle to buy 535 trinket.
    Bit of pvp for 498 weapon (or whatever the ilvl of the conquest weapon is).
    Note: you can get 522 items from honor now thanks to the new PvP season. Boom 522 weapon/OH

  11. #91
    Game is hard brah.



    idk, maybe like try playing for awhile. You're not going to go anywhere big Day 1 returning or new, nor Day 20. Yeah you need all the shit they are requesting because its their fucking requirements.

  12. #92
    I really don't understand the problem at all.
    I don't think you can play even more casual than I have played during the last months plus I have rerolled from an US to an EU server and that means I had to start from the scratch again. No gold, no gear, level to 90 and all that stuff. That was close to the end of ToT.
    There have been weeks where I did not play the game at all because work was really busy for me during those weeks.
    Still I am on the last part of the legendary quest on both main US toons (inactive now), on one EU toon I have the cloak since several weeks and on the other one I will have it in 1-2 weeks.
    Again, this with playing only a few hours/week starting very late in the expansion and not in a raiding guild. (Haven't even set foot in normal mode at this point).
    If I had only invested a couple more hours a week I would have the cloak easily on 4 toons. So yes, it takes a little while but it is also not THAT hard or time consuming as people claim.

    With the cloak and some LFR items acquired on the way (+luck with celestials/ordos) you will easily be at an ilvl of 535/540. If you have really crazy trade PUG requirements on your server for Flex or just want an easy way to group with other people get oQueue, use the forums and you WILL find groups for Flex and kill some bosses there. Get some flex gear, upgrade it and you will be at around ilvl 550.

    Grats, you now meet the gear requirements of a lot of raiding guilds and if you don't suck completely there might even be a chance you get to kill some internet dragons.

  13. #93
    It has ALWAYS been like this.

    Needing full t4 to get into Kara pugs in TBC.

    Needing full ICC gear to get into ICC pugs etc.etc


    If you can't get into any Flex raids with iLvl 520 you either only join grps with retarded raid leaders (the same guys who want to get carried and are usually dogshit themselves), or you aren't trying enough.


    As for normal runs, taking a guy with Cloak over the guy without, is a perfectly good way to go, since the Cloak (and LMG) is at least 50k free Dps for every class (more the better your gear gets). Still, I don't have any problem joining normalmode pugs with my alts around 540 iLvl (without Cloak or LMG).
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  14. #94
    As the quality of the average player deteriorates due to lower standards to complete entry level end game content, the requirements to enter pug groups that want a real shot at killing things will continue to rise.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by IllidariCouncil View Post
    Like I said, I finally found people that will take me into raids without having stupid high requirements. Im mostly commenting about the time it took to find what I found & how I did. Its people with your attitude that makes me want to quit raiding all together and go back to pvp. The game is suppose to be fun, why should people have to deal with everyone telling them to get better gear, better this and that to have fun?
    And how are people supposed to have fun, when they are wiping on the first boss, because someone does not know the mechanics nor has the gear for it? Other people don't know that you have raided for who knows how long and they don't care. The only thing that makes you better then the other, is your ilvl. Don't expect other people to boost you through...

  16. #96
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IllidariCouncil View Post
    Bleararrgh wall of text emo self-entitled bitch-fest
    Something I'll never understand: This whole "You're my guildy! You have to help me!" thing some people expect. Unless they know you, you're just another schmuck asking them for something that happens to share a guild tag. They're not your friend or automatically obliged to help you.

    Successful guilds are all about reciprocity and goodwill. You get back what you give.

    Keep in mind too that you're probably jumping into a pool full of players who are very late-expansion and honestly don't want to be slowed down carrying people.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  17. #97
    The cloak doesn't take any effort, and really not that much time. Most of it is gated, that is to say that the "time" requirement is just waiting on the next lockout to expire. This significantly boosts your item level.

    Burden of eterneties significantly boost your item level. They aren't "cheap" exactly, but if you do the right rare spawns (maw, dreadship, cinder, huolon, arch), they come pretty damn quick, and you should at least be able to get one a week as a casual.

    LFR gear can boost things like your weapon and slots that you are just having a bad time filling through timeless isle.

    And then with all this gear, you can upgrade them too. And that counts for a lot. Two pieces of timeless gear a week means you'll get 543s in all your slots eventually.

    And get on oqueue if you don't want to put up with the high ilvl requirement for pugs. I have no problem on my mage, who is 530, and was just 512 a week ago.

  18. #98
    Dreadlord MetroStratics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IllidariCouncil View Post
    My dps is right up there with the people that has 540+ (mine being 515) I just dont see why someone that would want to raid put up with the restrictions on getting into pugs. The guild aspect is simple, if a guild wants you to raid, tells you to get a higher item level then you can raid with them well then one option, leave. If someone isn't willing to help you out, you should not stick around to help them.
    Most of what is wrong with this post can be seen here.
    Unfortunately, there is no way anyone with 515 ilvl should be doing the same as people 540+
    The gear scaling is enormous this expansion and honestly annoying. I am glad they are addressing the numbers with 6.0, but the difference from 515 (heroic first tier) to normal SoO is easily 100+ k dps.
    If you are doing the same dps as them, they are very unskilled or not trying.

    In terms of flex, this isn't the case. You can always find a group that is willing to take you, so please don't act like 100 percent of groups require that item level.
    520-525 is plenty for flex, so if some one turns you down just wait it out.
    Make sure you are using the new raid browser feature to find as many groups as possible.

    Further in, you make a statement about putting up restrictions to raid, but this is even more inaccurate. You don't need to pug to raid, you find people with like minded and same progression and run with them. You can also start your own pug raids and set your own "restrictions," so once again please do not make sweeping generalizations as if this is Blizzard's fault.

    In terms of your final statements about guilds, this is also pretty misguided.
    You should be finding a group that is friendly and interesting BEFORE joining, not just joining random guilds then trying to get in their group. The best option is to apply to guilds and speak to their leadership and explain your situation. Tell them you are undergeared, but dedicated and will work hard to improve your ilvl and get your cloak ASAP, but you could use some help.

    Furthermore, it is NOT a guild's job to gear some one up through flex. Hopefully you understand now that it is EASILY puggable and the things you complained about are avoidable entirely.

    Another great issue now is doing Celestials for a chance at the 550 pvp gear. Its actually really strong, as pvp stats are no longer part of the budget.

    Hope you can find a group before WoD!

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by IllidariCouncil View Post
    So to new & or returning old raiders. Why even try raiding right now in WoW?

    Seriously.. Ive raided since late LK up to DS in a really good raiding guild. MoP came out so I went and tried PvP for a while and 5.4 I wanted to get back into raiding. So when did raiding become a elitist fest? 540+ flex.. 550+ normal? Must have cloak? Shitting me? So you're telling me that you have to have a item level above what you cant even achieve to do flex/normal and only way to get that item level is to do those? Timeless isle & LFR is the only options for people that dont meet these crazy requirements. Hows a casual suppose to raid? I guess in this new raiding world.. you dont. Not evenyone can play ya know 10 hours or more a day. for item levels. Remind you I am not complaining for me, because after a week or so of searching I found a guild not even from my server, not even someone from my guild that is willing to carry me and help me out to gear up. My own guild wont even run their low level geared players through flex to help gear them up. So me & a few guildies have left and I have just been raiding with a guild where I know no one.. dont even know the leader and right off dont even remember the guild name & they run me through flex and normal no questions asked, no ilvl bullshit nothing & been doing it for 2 weeks now. So my question is now, why should someone thats new to raiding be subject to put up with this none sense of people thats been raiding all expansion put a number you have to get to be apart of raiding. It doesn't matter what item level you have obviously so I wouldent be getting runs right now. My dps is right up there with the people that has 540+ (mine being 515) I just dont see why someone that would want to raid put up with the restrictions on getting into pugs. The guild aspect is simple, if a guild wants you to raid, tells you to get a higher item level then you can raid with them well then one option, leave. If someone isn't willing to help you out, you should not stick around to help them.

    Its funny really, Im raiding with a guild cross server with people I dont even know that I found on OQ, and friends/guild mates on my own server aren't willing to spend a hour from sitting in org doing nothing to help out their own guildies. Sorry its just a little rant I had to get off my chest. Let me have some feedback, if you're new to raiding.. what your experiences have been like. I know 99% of ppl on here will complain but oh well.

    Note: Why not join another guild then? Im on a high pop server, Ive been in 5+ guilds since 5.4 released & I started to try and raid. Its these kids attitudes and disrespect for new comers that leave sourer taste in peoples mouths.
    Wait, you think this is new?? Hah, guess you didn't pug much back in ICC because you would remember Gearscore (which is now just ilvl) as well as achievement linking which is still around.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladis View Post
    You don't even need to go that far, you can tell a quality of a player by how much the person improves while collecting gear.
    This. Not too long ago my guild recruited a particular player and we gave him some decent gear that nobody else wanted, and yet he never could beat the DPS of either tank in my raid. Heck, he did less DPS than the smiting Disc Priest. After two weeks of this the raid got fed up with it and he no longer raids with us.

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