Blizzard Store: How much is too much?

[Templis]

Yes the reward is killing the boss but also being very high (as high as possible) ranked on the worldladder. A lot of raiders are raiders because they want to be competitive towards other guilds (be it on their server or not). If you give everyone full heroic epics BiS, there are a whole bunch of people suddenly capable of surpassing YOU or YOUR guild because you did not buy BiS gear. While normally due to skill and dedication you would be nr 1 or some other high number.

See 1. I am quite sure that you are empathic enough to see how this could leave a bad taste in peoples mouths like those described.

Again this is not an advantage on the grand scheme of things. You as a character HARDLY will make a dent in anyone's progress pvpwise if you decide to jump to 90. Besides EVERYONE gets a free 90 who buys WOD.

Actually, when you use the term 'grand scheme of things', it is the only way it could be viewed as an advantage. Less time invested in leveling a character means more time invested in gearing a max level character. It is only not really an advantage if we consider that in WoW there is no goal except for the one you set for yourself.

What is the issue with other players surpassing you gear wise? How does it affect your character or your guild? Does it hamper your progression or interfere with your game? I understand that some players set their own goals with world, server, faction and class firsts, but again, these are independently set goals. If skill and dedication are the determining factors then a random player with gear shouldn't be a problem, unless that player is actually more skilled and dedicated. I don't see a connection with gear and skill in the same way you do. Dedication maybe, but it takes a certain amount of dedication to level to 90 as well.

If you are against selling heroic gear, how would you feel about selling gear that makes you 'heroic ready', so basically normal mode gear, maybe halfway through a tier. This would save a lot of players the grind of going through lfr, flex and eventually normal modes.

[Zka]

WoW has already gone P2W, so I don't care. 8.33%

[Eyes pop out] 8% of people think that WoW is pay to win. I wonder what the hell can I win with my money here. I can't even begin to figure out. Next tier I'll buy a fancy mount to win the progression race I guess.

[darthslayer]

Mounts are the only thing I never liked, it makes no sense. I want to grind a mount for months, get it and have a unique item. I don't see the point when people buy a mount, log in and that person is surrounded by 20 of the same mount, what's so fun about it when everyone has the same mount as you with 0 effort?

My enjoyment of a mount has nothing to do with how many other people have that mount. I like the Iron Skyreaver because it has awesome flight animations. I don't care that I bought it, I don't care that somebody playing the game for only the past month can buy it and enjoy it as well.

For me, having one particular mount is no special deal. Having ALL the mounts? Now that's an achievement to strive for!

[Zka]

So 1/4 of their yearly gross comes from ALL fees across ALL of their games. Doesn't seem like a hell of a lot to me.

So if you had a company, you would forego 25% of your income just because that's not a lot of money?
LOL

[GoldNSilence]

With the WoD changes especially with the proving grounds requirement I'm not really so opposed to instant 90s anymore. I won't use the service though.

[Xintho]

So if you had a company, you would forego 25% of your income just because that's not a lot of money?
LOL

No, I'm saying that people have a misconception as to just how much of Activision/Blizzards income comes from WoW subscriptions fees. If you would have read what I said it mentioned that the 25% is from ALL fees/micro-transactions/services/DLC in ALL of their games and even then it's 1/4 of what they bring in during the year. I swear, do people on here just like to argue to hear themselves talk in lieu of caring about actual facts or numbers or even logic?

[Ryme]

WoW has already gone P2W, so I don't care. 8.33%

[Eyes pop out] 8% of people think that WoW is pay to win. I wonder what the hell can I win with my money here. I can't even begin to figure out. Next tier I'll buy a fancy mount to win the progression race I guess.

Boosts have always been in the p2w spectrum, though. You win a level 90 in an instant as opposed to days of played time, is that not enough?

This image from 2012 is something I generally agree with: http://moarpowah.com/wp-content/uplo...win-chart.jpeg

[Deleted]

A profession boost to, say, 600 to complement the boost to 90, I don't see any major issues with. It would still require you to skill it up to 675.

Anything that affects your characters end game progression - gear, buffs, etc - is crossing the line for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Boosts have always been in the p2w spectrum, though. You win a level 90 in an instant as opposed to days of played time, is that not enough?

This image from 2012 is something I generally agree with: http://moarpowah.com/wp-content/uplo...win-chart.jpeg

It's all in how you DEFINE pay 2 win.

I mean, if you want to argue that anything that saves time is pay 2 win, then we've had that for a veeeeery long time - it's called the Recruit a Friend.

[Saphyron]

pay to win is where i set my stand.

Anything below i am up to happening.

With pay to win = Raid gear and above
bonus damage
bonus healing
more reliance... i think you get the idea.

[Amnaught]

Things that are not P2W:
Experience Boosts (You can technically get +300% through RaF to level 85, multiboxing. Paying for it wouldnt be much different.)
Transmog Gear, Pets, Mounts, Minor Glyphs. (Recolors > totally new models that could b used in other places, though. Would like to see sub-40's in "plate," too.)
Portals/charges of teleports (Hey, you wanna pay for a [Veteran's Hearthstone], you go for it.)
Level boosts (Hey, I can get there, you can get there, pay for it if you want. I'd actually like to see a cheap level 15 boost so i dont have to wait for dungeons anymore.)


Things that are P2W:
Rep boosts (You have to grind just as much as I have to grind.)
Anything that gives gear that increases your stats beyond mine for less time invested. (I.E. raid gear, normal geat, quest gear, bonus rolls, bonuses TO rolls [wtf?])
Speed increases anywhere but flightpaths and teleports
Profession boosts
gold boosts
less repairs
extra stats on items, including gems, enchants, tertiary stats etc
anything that helps in any way towards any achievement, save for pets and mounts.
Things that alter a character's spells in any way, other than aesthetically.
Mounts pre-20

[wow2011]

pay to win is where i set my stand.

Anything below i am up to happening.

With pay to win = Raid gear and above
bonus damage
bonus healing
more reliance... i think you get the idea.

This sentiment is completely ridiculous for a sub based game and I hope people stop thinking this way -_- Think things through before spewing none sense.

How would you feel if Blizzard stopped creating new art assets for gears from this point forth and put all newly created art asset as store purchases? Dance studio? New druid animal forms? New race skins? You really wouldn't care if all these are accessed through store with real money?

[Wildtree]

when people buy a mount, log in and that person is surrounded by 20 of the same mount, what's so fun about it when everyone has the same mount as you with 0 effort?

Unless you are still in kiddie age and mama/daddy pays, last I've checked, those mounts cost money. And money doesn't grow on trees, but has to be earned through work. Least amount of people making a net $25.00 an hour or more... So they've worked for the money to buy the mount. And it is save to say, that a couple hours of work are way more effort than clicking a few buttons in a video game to destroy some pixels.
And if you are a kiddie, learn to appreciate your parents earned money. They've worked for it.

- - - Updated - - -

Things that are P2W:
Anything that gives gear that increases your stats beyond mine for less time invested. (I.E. raid gear, normal geat, quest gear, bonus rolls, bonuses TO rolls [wtf?])

Already in the game..... It's called BMAH...
Now you could argue - rightfully so I have to say - it costs gold, and that has to be made.
Yes, I agree.... If it wasn't for gold sellers where people go and buy the gold instead of farming it.

Regarding quest gear, that too is in the game. Pretty much every Pandaria zone has a vendor where you can buy zone appropriate item level green gear to make questing easier.

[HeedmySpeed]

Seeing that the general consensus in these threads tends to be "it doesn't affect your gameplay", then they should be able to sell anything and everything, and the majority of players will accept it.

If store-only mounts, pets, 90's, etc doesn't offend you, raid gear shouldn't either.

Essentially. Sucks to see so many fanbois suckling at the teet of their all mighty leader, Blizzard. It's like Korea up in this bitch.

[Xintho]

This sentiment is completely ridiculous for a sub based game and I hope people stop thinking this way -_- Think things through before spewing none sense.

How would you feel if Blizzard stopped creating new art assets for gears from this point forth and put all newly created art asset as store purchases? Dance studio? New druid animal forms? New race skins? You really wouldn't care if all these are accessed through store with real money?

Think things through before spewing non-sense. Has this happened yet? No. You are jumping to assumptions to fulfill your own irrational reasons behind your hate for the Blizzard store. They aren't going to stop releasing content because people will actually be upset. Those of you complaining about the Blizzard store are the VOCAL MINORITY. Meaning that you only see people complain about it because the people who don't care don't have a reason to talk about it.

What happens when the majority actually becomes upset with something? Take a look back at their old forum changes that were going to come with the new Real ID feature. They were going to have you post from your real name as listed on your account rather than whatever character you would decide to hide behind. They thought it was a good idea. They like the idea. What happened though? They backed out of it because the MAJORITY, not the vocal minority, explained why they didn't want it to happen.

No one is getting pulled from doing art for other things to design store items. They have said so themselves with countless "Well we would like to design X or Y but that would mean one less raid tier." They aren't going to stop making new armor sets because that would destroy the feeling that the game has had for the last 9 years.

Now is when people will be like "Well they have already ruined it with all these new mounts and pets in the last 2 years." Let's take a step back to September of 2005. ZG was released there was content all around and class fixes were rolling in. One month later Blizzard decides to launch the WoW: Trading Card Game. What did this bring? Not just pets and mounts but new items. Things that changed how your hearthstone worked or the graphics on the ground when you walk. New art, new spell effects. Go forward from that, BC was released. In what was arguably the best time to play the game, here was this off project requiring resources for in game items that were purchased with real life money. Going forward it still remained the same. Blizzard selling in game items for real money isn't a new concept. It's been around for almost as long as the game has, yet people are just getting butthurt because there is now a button that you can click on instead of just logging onto ebay. Eight years and after all that time they added in something that wasn't cosmetic yet people are up in arms about how IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE that in the next 5 or 6 months they will start forcing people to design art for things that will cost us content. Please, look at the grand scope of things before you start pointing fingers at Blizzard for ruining the game, that or just find something else to play and stay out of these forums.

[therayeffect]

Things that are not P2W:
Experience Boosts (You can technically get +300% through RaF to level 85, multiboxing. Paying for it wouldnt be much different.)
Transmog Gear, Pets, Mounts, Minor Glyphs. (Recolors > totally new models that could b used in other places, though. Would like to see sub-40's in "plate," too.)
Portals/charges of teleports (Hey, you wanna pay for a [Veteran's Hearthstone], you go for it.)
Level boosts (Hey, I can get there, you can get there, pay for it if you want. I'd actually like to see a cheap level 15 boost so i dont have to wait for dungeons anymore.)


Things that are P2W:
Rep boosts (You have to grind just as much as I have to grind.)
Anything that gives gear that increases your stats beyond mine for less time invested. (I.E. raid gear, normal geat, quest gear, bonus rolls, bonuses TO rolls [wtf?])
Speed increases anywhere but flightpaths and teleports
Profession boosts
gold boosts
less repairs
extra stats on items, including gems, enchants, tertiary stats etc
anything that helps in any way towards any achievement, save for pets and mounts.
Things that alter a character's spells in any way, other than aesthetically.
Mounts pre-20

Your definition of pay2win is really off. Pay2win is when someone uses money to gain an advantage over someone else that wouldn't otherwise be obtainable without that money.

[Wildtree]

Essentially. Sucks to see so many fanbois suckling at the teet of their all mighty leader, Blizzard. It's like Korea up in this bitch.

And what makes you think, how everyone who's okay with the store is automatically a fanboi? That's a totally idiotic assumption.
The opposite statement would be, how everyone who hates on the store is just a jealous poor loser who cannot afford to buy anything there.
See.. 2 opposite absolutes, and with that both are incredibly stupid.

I personally don't give a shit about what they sell or don't sell in the store. I've bought a few pets. I've bought one mount as a gift.
The rest, I don't care. Would I buy p2w items? Nope.. My money is earned too hard to spend it on disposable stuff like gear etc. I don't even spend gold on the AH for such stuff.. Why wasting anything on something that's to be vendor trash a little bit down the road?

[Nerraw]

Pets, mounts, cosmetics, levelling services, I don't care. Just as long as they don't sell anything with actual stats on it.

[Sierra85]

Just as long as they don't sell anything with actual stats on it.

Anything that effects actual performance in pvp or pve is too far.

Selling cosmetic vanity rubbish, go ahead.

[lopk]

Like I said in a previous thread, it's more so about quantity as opposed to what the items do. Cosmetics? Cool. EXP boost? Sure. Faster honor gain? I would prefer that it not be implemented, but I'd get over it.

Things being released on a weekly basis? Too much.

[wow2011]

Think things through before spewing non-sense. Has this happened yet? No. You are jumping to assumptions to fulfill your own irrational reasons behind your hate for the Blizzard store. They aren't going to stop releasing content because people will actually be upset. Those of you complaining about the Blizzard store are the VOCAL MINORITY. Meaning that you only see people complain about it because the people who don't care don't have a reason to talk about it.

The sentiment I was talking about is "as long it's not P2W then it's ok to be in store". That is the sentiment that I consider absolutely wrong. Why should Blizzard sell unique armor sets in store instead of putting it in game when we still pay monthly sub? Why should Blizzard design dance studio and put a fee on that when we still pay monthly sub?

Some people might want to say "slippery slope" and say dance studio wouldn't be paid feature so let me give you a real example. Do you know what remoate AH and remote guild chat are? Do you know this used to be a paid feature (as in, if you don't pay, you don't have access to it)? People were upset and complained but Blizzard did it anyways. However, not many people felt the feature was worth the price so Blizzard eventually provided this feature for free.

A new feature being accessible only with real money on top of monthly sub has already happened. If people keep on saying "as long as it's not P2W then it's ok to be in store" then Blizzard might just take that up at face value. "No brown orc? It's ok, we can add that in as paid brown skin orcs. Our subscribers are ok with this since it's not P2W. Also, let's put dance studio and charge extra too since it's just dancing and doesn't affect player power".