Does anyone else hate the idea of less linear raids?

[Zantos]

I recently started progression in heroics and already my guild is haven't issues with progression. Its not the challenge of a new boss, but its our own raid leader. You see, he keeps jumping from boss to boss before we have Time to learn the mechanics well enough to get a kill. We even managed to get 1 boss to enrage, but instead of keeping up with it and switching up the strat, we immediately moved on.

During the start of Cata, I had similar issues with my old guild. When there were 3 raids to try, we were finding progression very slow. On more then one occasion we would go a whole raid week without getting a boss down. The problem was again, we kept jumping around from boss to boss. Once our gm had enough and told the raid leader to focus on one, we found steady progression and managed to get more bosses down in one week then we had in the month before.

Now we are going into WoD with the devs wanting raids to be less linear so we can pick and choose where we go and when. I for one an opposed to this. Sure, its fun and is very nice. I like it over all. However, the problem comes when guilds have issues with progression on one so they move to another. They could also be spending too much time trying to learn 2-3 bosses all at once to not be spending enough time killing one. So I am just wandering if anyone else is dreading a raid with a lot of choices in which direction you go. Mostly because some guilds will bounce around too much to make real progress.

[Deja Thoris]

The game giving choices is a good thing.

If you choose to spend your raid time with ADD raid leaders who hop from one thing to the next that's your problem, not the games.

[Buttfear]

So app to a decent guild...

[Serem]

This sounds more like a problem with guild leadership than having choices imo. (Or rather, whoever is running as raid leader in this case.)

[Boricha]

The problem isn't the raid, just the raid leader. I love the idea.

[Zantos]

I love the idea too, but too often the raid leaders end up wanting to bounce around. They give various reasons like boosting morale or a change in scenery. Choices are great. I just would like something added to it so once we make our choice, we are stuck with it. Just a fail safe for idiot raid leaders.

[Bllets]

When i was raid leading back in Wrath and our team had a pretty bad record from Naxx, I had absolutely no experience in raid leading and I took it as it came.

When it came to doing hard modes in Ulduar and I did the same thing your raid leaders did at first. We tried FL+4 early and got our ass kicked, XT kicked our ass as well and Hodir did the same. As those were the easier hard modes, we did not really try any of the others at first.

It became clear to me what was wrong when we were failing on Hodir and we started doing things in another way.

But why jump between bosses like that? Well for me as an very inexperienced RL it was because I pretty much thought that we might be better suited for another hard mode, or that people were better prepared for some other hard modes, because they would consider them more "fun" i.e. Hodir in Ulduar. While obviously it was the wrong thing to do with our raid group, it isn't sure it is the same for yours, because some people just grow tired of doing the same mechanics over and over, and start to fail due to being annoyed, tired or something else. A new boss can be a breath of fresh air and it might tell your RL something new about your group.

It could also just be because your RL can't stand wiping over things he think is piss easy to understand and he can't believe people can fail it, like focusing adds or stop doing DPS at X stacks, or maybe your RL just suck?

It really is hard to say why without anymore information.

Regarding your title I hate linear raids, and I loved Ulduar where I could pick between Mimiron, Hodir, Thorim, Freya and Cat Lady. As well as between XT, Razorscale and Ignis. I loved Naxxramas for the same reason. SoO feels much more linear and I generally don't enjoy myself as much, because you can't really make it interesting or change it up.

[Feali]

Choices are a good thing.

[topapagaramonde]

Hey Zantos,

Bad decisions come in many flavors, if a RL is not decisive, he/she can also wipe you an entire week on the same boss by switching strats every pull. SOO is the longest linear raid that I have played and I hope never to have to do this again. More choices are only good for the raid.

[Yalingo]

Sorry mate but that sounds like a problem with your raid leader, not the game's design.

Linear raids are fun killers.

[Constraint]

I recently started progression in heroics and already my guild is haven't issues with progression. Its not the challenge of a new boss, but its our own raid leader. You see, he keeps jumping from boss to boss before we have Time to learn the mechanics well enough to get a kill. We even managed to get 1 boss to enrage, but instead of keeping up with it and switching up the strat, we immediately moved on.

During the start of Cata, I had similar issues with my old guild. When there were 3 raids to try, we were finding progression very slow. On more then one occasion we would go a whole raid week without getting a boss down. The problem was again, we kept jumping around from boss to boss. Once our gm had enough and told the raid leader to focus on one, we found steady progression and managed to get more bosses down in one week then we had in the month before.

Now we are going into WoD with the devs wanting raids to be less linear so we can pick and choose where we go and when. I for one an opposed to this. Sure, its fun and is very nice. I like it over all. However, the problem comes when guilds have issues with progression on one so they move to another. They could also be spending too much time trying to learn 2-3 bosses all at once to not be spending enough time killing one. So I am just wandering if anyone else is dreading a raid with a lot of choices in which direction you go. Mostly because some guilds will bounce around too much to make real progress.

I personally love freedom of choice.

At the end of the day, it comes down to leadership. If you think your guild's erratic leadership is hurting your guild's progression, I'd suggest having a chat with the Officers/GM about it. If nothing comes of it, you'll have to either put up with it or find a new guild, sadly.

I personally love as much choice in bosses as possible. As a raid leader, I loved having the choice between, for example, Mimiron, Freya, Hodir, Thorim and Auriaya in Ulduar, based on how switched-on people were at the time, and group make-up. Sure, if I jumped between bosses whilst learning their hard-mode mechanics, I'd have been damaging my guild's progression chances, but that's just absurd - why would I do that?

[dean771]

my guild is haven't issues with progression.

.......


before we have Time to learn the mechanics well enough to get a kill.

Sounds like you are having issues with progression

[Spotnick]

They said they wanted to do something like Blackwing Descent.. so you had choice between Magma and Omnitron, then choices between Maloriak, Atramedes and Chimaeron.

I don't think anyone every complained about that raid, just complained about the stupid travelling time between raids.

[Zoaric]

I rather enjoy non-linear raids.
Firstly, when soloing, they are far more entertaining as you may end up doing the same
one for years waiting on that one special drop... looking at you, Black Temple...
And secondly, it gives more variety during progression, and feels more the way I feel
like a compound would be set up. I mean, who builds a base in a straight line?!

[Nitros14]

They said they wanted to do something like Blackwing Descent.. so you had choice between Magma and Omnitron, then choices between Maloriak, Atramedes and Chimaeron.

I don't think anyone every complained about that raid, just complained about the stupid travelling time between raids.

God forbid you spend 5 or even 10 whole minutes travelling through a world instead of instantly teleporting everywhere.

[prwraith]

God forbid you spend 5 or even 10 whole minutes travelling through a world instead of instantly teleporting everywhere.

You know that's great and all the first time, maybe the first dozen times. God forbid we input a fast track method like, have group will travel, so that 5-10 minute trip for the 40th time can be averted.

[Zka]

No, most people like choices.

[Senka]

I know it sounds like a bad omen for your guild, but it may actually be not so bad. Think about this design choice in the context of the next expansion. Mythic (current Heroic) raids will FINALLY be their own thing. That means a 100% separate raid (except for saving, I think). They specifically said this means you won't be able to bounce around in bosses. You have to defeat them in order; even the non-bosses will be Mythic level which has never happened before. A less linear raid design will mean you can still bounce around a tiny bit, but it won't be like right now where guilds that aren't quite good enough just cherry-pick what's easier for them.

[Nitros14]

You know that's great and all the first time, maybe the first dozen times. God forbid we input a fast track method like, have group will travel, so that 5-10 minute trip for the 40th time can be averted.

That seems very impatient. I think it's important to preserve the travel time to create a sense of scale in the world. Otherwise why have the world at all? Why not just make raids, dungeons, capital cities and pvp instances and scrap the rest?

[Tenjen]

You can't build something good based on the bad behavior of a few.

your problem with the raid leader sounds familiar, I think you made a topic about it right? that's just it, its not a problem with this system. its your raid leader.

The benefits of non-linear outstrip the VERY minor disadvantage brought by the stupid behavior of a very miniscule population of people who will behave the same whether the raid is liner or not.