What paladin spells will be removed in WoD?

[Jester Joe]

I don't think Guardian of the Ancient Kings will be touched honestly. Keep in mind it's also the 50% damage reduction for prot, which all tanks have some big CD equivalent, so it will at least stay for them, but from what it seems each class is keeping 2 big CDs, which, without Holy Avenger, is what Ret really has anyway, so they might chop Holy Avenger as a talent though maybe?

[Lucyrotten]

I don't really understand all the whinging about Inq tbh. Pretty much every class has something they're supposed to keep active.

Emancipation is one of the few ret spells not even on my bars and can go. Blinding Light is good as an instant but as holy it's not worth the cast time.

I don't understand why everyone wants to get rid of HoSalv. I use it all the time. It's great for dps with big opening burst. I use it on fights with adds to get them off healers or a dps that grabs some initial threat. Hand of Purity is one that I don't really think quite lived up to it's potential. It's been really fantastic on a couple fights but really only when that content was fresh and we were all undergeared. Later in each tier Clemency became a better option for the same situations since 2x Sac > HoPu plus 2x the rest of the hands as well.

[anaxie]

HoSalv is borderline mandatory for me to survive in a PuG environment. Removing it would be silly.

[Fredzilla]

Even in pvp gear if i get randomed into AV or something, i have to salv myself so i dont end up tanking drek and everyone else in there.

[Deleted]

I don't really understand all the whinging about Inq tbh. Pretty much every class has something they're supposed to keep active

I think its because no one ever asked for this ability its just something that came out of the blue and whats worse is that its a complete copy of slice and dice, not only did we get the rogue combo points but also their finishers its kinda dumb.


For the people who think we dont have any abilities that needs to be removed, you need to get real. As Blizzard said a lot of abilities has niche uses and theres really no point in having an ability that you use once or twice per raid.

We should expect so see stuff like Hand of Salv and Protection, blinding light, turn undead, crusader strike (for holy), hammer of wrath (for holy) removed and almost all cooldowns will be merged so you can expect to have 1 big cooldown and 2 if you pick holy avenger. Hell with the reduction of CC in PvP we might even see Hand of Freedom removed.

[Role Unknown]

First and foremost: Inquistition (note: I dont hate it....im just stating its the most likely to go)
I can see HoF and Emancipate being merged.
I can also see HoP and HoSac being merged/changed.

I am really hoping Blizz adds a passive that allows Ret pallies to utilize a 1h and shield(like DK's Might of the Frozen Wastes), that way Blizz can merge Hammer of the righteous and shield of the righteous

Im also hoping that Blizz can somehow merge Seal of Righteousness' effect into Divine Storm, and do away with the need to constantly seal dance.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I don't get what people cry so hard about Inquisition for.
is it just keeping it up?
is it the holy power cost?
is it that you don't notice it?

Just explain why Inq is bad. No, "boring" is NOT a reason. I'm not exactly giggling like a schoolgirl when I hit Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Judgement or Execution Sentence (or any talents in that tier) So I'm seriously curious about the reasons for all the hate towards it.

[gutnbrg]

i dont see any hands going away

[Wimt]

I don't get what people cry so hard about Inquisition for.
is it just keeping it up?
is it the holy power cost?
is it that you don't notice it?

Just explain why Inq is bad. No, "boring" is NOT a reason. I'm not exactly giggling like a schoolgirl when I hit Exorcism, Crusader Strike, Judgement or Execution Sentence (or any talents in that tier) So I'm seriously curious about the reasons for all the hate towards it.

because Inq mechanic is bad, let me explain.
You use HanofSal because u overaggored,
You use HandofFree because u want to move faster,
You use flash because u want to heal yourself,
You use Inq because .... YOU HAVE TO!
whats the point of having/tracking ability that gives u a passive buff (i'd rather have it a base passive and use glyphed WoG from time to time on target)
ppl hate inq cuz it forces us to click an ability because "we have to"
inq would be better if blizz adds there some additional mechanic that gives us some choice like examples above

[Krekko]

I agree getting rid of lights hammer is a good idea. Replace it with consecration, but bake the glyph in, and make a glyph that lets you have it the old way instead.

I'd hate to see the great graphic of LH lost, so as long as we have the option for a glyph for visuals, or we get LH's graphic on something else, I'd be happy.

HoSalv is borderline mandatory for me to survive in a PuG environment. Removing it would be silly.

Yeah, I'd much rather not lose Salv. It's not really that big of a deal having it on the bars either though, it's not something that actively demands attention.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Well you also HAVE TO:
- Use Divine Protection to avoid damage.
- Use GoAK + AW as much as possible (also stacking them as often as possible.
- Use Templar's Verdict when you have 3+ Holy Power.
- Use HoPo generating abilities to get HoPo to use for Templar's Verdict

Inq is a HUGE dps increase to use, you're basically saying you don't like it because you don't like it.
And no, it's not a "choice" to use hand of freedom. If you're slowed and you're gonna die if you don't get away quick enough or you can't dps if you get to somewhere (someone) quick enough... that's not a choice, that's using your abilities as they're intended to be used. If you don't use FoL or healthstones or whatever you can to save yourself from dying then you're bad, nobody wants to be bad (I hope) so again, not a choice. You do it because it's required of you.

Point is, almost everything in wow is designed for you to use appropriately (by design of class or individual ability) dislike Inquisition all you want but then you might as well dislike 90% of all the other spells and abilities in the game because ALL of them have intended uses. Yes some are less significant than others but Inquisition is a VERY major dps increase for Retribution to use.

[Krekko]

I just think it's that there are higher hopes for what a maintenance buff can be, rather than what Inquisition is.

On the basic level it's simple, get 3 HP and use it, then you can break it down further, naturally, but really there is just an illusion of depth and complexity to the spell. At least, speaking personally, If Inquisition were to go somewhere I'd want it to be replaced by a much more dynamic and requiring me to make a choice of using it or not outside of the last final seconds of the fight. Something which is not just another "use it or you're bad" spell.

I think as Paladins we have much more room for that than most other classes for an interesting maintenance buff, and I, once again, personally, hate to see that passed up for just a gain 3, consume 3 and wait buff.

[Wimt]

move inq to passive give me consecrate/glyphed WoG/new skill and i'll be happy
and btw. u dont want to use tv/judg/exo/anything before inq is up (because its a passive that u HAVE to use -> u dont have choice)

[papajohn4]

Only thing I want to be removed is Inquisition cause is just dumb and no fun at all.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Only thing I want to be removed is Inquisition cause is just dumb and no fun at all.

Again the "fun" argument is thrown, what is fun? DPS? Inq ups your dps dramatically.
Combustion is a core ability for Firemages, I can't imagine it's "fun" for them to watch their combustion addon waiting for it to go above a certain point and then clicking it either. Or for Moonkins to hit Starfall every 45seconds (roughly).

Just because something isn't "fun" doesn't mean it's bad gameplay.

[Zabannith]

It's amazing how many people want Inq to be passive... you just want a free 30% holy dmg with out having to do anything else for it? I just don't get it...

I'm 100% on the side of INQ staying.... it's the biggest dps increase ability ret has at the moment,get rid of it and they will literally need to re-tune all of our dmg to be based around not having it , not to mention the Inq and hand of light synergy , mastery will need reworking as well... do you guys remember how horrible we were at the start of cata when they had to rework the class to this degree? ret was broke as hell.

We just hit a point where mechanically we the best we have ever been , and getting rid of Inq, causing the snowball of re balancing will make us broke again ... we all know blizz won't get ret right the first time ,, its a historical fact that we usually take a whole expansion to be fixed to the point where we should have been at the start of the expansion...

[Wimt]

in that case give Inq some additional mechanic that will give me choice of not using it every 5x secs
lets say (oh i have 30s inq up and only 2 hopo but i can use it again cuz of the secoundary "put smth here" will be better")

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

There's ONE problem I can see people having with maintaining Inquisition and that is that there's no blizzard UI effect that tells you that it's active and how long it has left before you have to refresh it (same for feral druids with savage roar or whatever).
Let me ask you this if you could see a big button on your screen that shows you how long your Inquisition has left would it be better? (get weak auras until blizzard makes their own)

Also, here's an idea. What if they removed Inquisition and instead gave us a 1minute CD 30% holy damage buff that lasted for 60 seconds? Sounds awesome right?

[Wimt]

i'm using TMW that tells me how long Inq last.
and nope 1 min cd buff will be just the same (for me it feels exactly the same cuz i dont see any difference bettween refreshing non cd buff every 1 min and using 1 min cd buff every 1 min)

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

That's my point. People are complaining about a 1min cd that increases your holy damage by 30%.
Why aren't people complaining about a 2 or 3 minute cd that increases your damage by 20% and 15% or whatever? Because that's what AV and GoAK is.
I'm honestly having problems understanding why so many (at least here) are having problems with a 1minute "cooldown" is a problem but a 2 and 3 minute one isn't...