How should we act on Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

[Auxora]

I am on the us side for most things, but in this case i am having trouble agreeing with the administration. What would we in the US do if Canada had nukes, had a revolution, and English speaking Canadians were being attacked by French speaking Canadians, and were begging to join the US. There would be a strong case to intervene both for humanitarian and security reasons. And after Iraq, on the other side of the world, although granted not annexed, seems hypocritical.

[Bluesftw]

the same we did when usa invades other countries for oil : nothing at all

[Fullmetal89]

I don't know a part of me doesn't want Russia to do whatever the hell it wants but another part of me knows that the U.S. can't afford to keep getting involved in everyone else problems. I'd like to say this a European problem let them deal with it, but we know how well that will work out. So the only viable option I see is sanctions on Russia, even if Putin laughs them off. We would have to go back to Cold War status with them in terms of diplomacy.

[Angella]

If international conflicts were handled by mmo champion armchair generals the world would be over by now. No one will risk WW3 over Ukraine get over your selves. The West cannot do anything and will not do anything.

Wouldn't be WW3 as Putin is pretty smart and has no interest getting into a war he'll lose. Heavy sanctions and moving military assets should be sufficient. If you can't stomach even that brand of response I'm not sure what to tell you.

[truckboattruck]

I am on the us side for most things, but in this case i am having trouble agreeing with the administration. What would we in the US do if Canada had nukes, had a revolution, and English speaking Canadians were being attacked by French speaking Canadians, and were begging to join the US. There would be a strong case to intervene both for humanitarian and security reasons. And after Iraq, on the other side of the world, although granted not annexed, seems hypocritical.

this will sound crazy (right now), but it has grain of possibility
canada would benefit from merging with the usa

they dont have the resources to get at the arctic oil
and they dont have the military to stop russia from taking it

but 'merica does

[Angella]

doing nothing only emboldens putin to push harder

he has his eyes set on canadian territory in the arctic so they can drill for oil
you think this makes him more arrogant or less?

they want that region of the ukraine because of its resources
not out of the "goodness of their heart"

Naw. Capturing Canadian territory would 100% force a US military response. Putin is too smart for that.

[Wafffles]

Do nothing, but not because "it's not our problem" or "we can't afford it." Do nothing, because it'll be nice to see someone else be the world's big evil everyone-hates-them-and-all-the-world's-problems-are-because-of-them scapegoat for awhile. Also, if this isn't an isolated incident (which it won't be), then the next conflict will have the big old 'told ya so' stamp approval for US intervention if that decision is made. If you don't let the bully thrash around for awhile, they're going to come across like the victim. Much like WWII, it's better get involved late and hear "you idiots waited too long" than get involved too early and here a bunch of people convinced that "you idiots stuck your noses in and made a mountain out of molehills. NO ONE would have found the allies justified in beating up on Germany during mere rearmament or invasion of the smaller countries; without a time machine, the only option is to let it happen until people are sufficiently convinced that maybe, just maybe, the US isn't the only aggressive country in the world. In fact - gasp - other countries may, from time to time, actually be worse than the evil, evil USA.

[Angella]

this will sound crazy (right now), but it has grain of possibility
canada would benefit from merging with the usa

they dont have the resources to get at the arctic oil
and they dont have the military to stop russia from taking it

but 'merica does

Um no? Canada has plenty of resources to get at it's oil. Trade links between the USA and Canada and NAFTA mean Canada gets almost all the benefits of being from the US without all the ridiculous debt and paralyzed politics. Also the US would assuredly come to Canada's aide in a crunch. Really there is no incentive for Canada to join the US. None at all.

[truckboattruck]

Naw. Capturing Canadian territory would 100% force a US military response. Putin is too smart for that.

is he really? i think he is drinking his own koolaid at this point
and if he gets away with taking what he wants in ukraine?

his view of himself and his abilities are becoming distorted
his military daring is relative to his personal opinion of his abilities

- - - Updated - - -

Um no? Canada has plenty of resources to get at it's oil. Trade links between the USA and Canada and NAFTA mean Canada gets almost all the benefits of being from the US without all the ridiculous debt and paralyzed politics. Also the US would assuredly come to Canada's aide in a crunch. Really there is no incentive for Canada to join the US. None at all.

well....good luck with that

[Maxilian]

I still don't know why Russia is invading Ukraine, can someone tell me why? (i know they want something, but what? freedom (Aka oil)?

[Laize]

The number of people simply stating "do nothing, Ukraine is not our problem" concerns the SHIT out of me.

[Yadryonych]

I still don't know why Russia is invading Ukraine, can someone tell me why? (i know they want something, but what? freedom (Aka oil)?

because of this

Russia was beating nazis of Ukraine for 8 years AFTER World War II, we don't want this shit near our borders again

[Reeve]

A fairly friendly democraticvally elected president was ousted in a coup only supported in one area of ukraine. The worst thing that could happen is civil war, if that happens i believe russia will intervene. I pray that that never comes to pass.

I feel that the EU and the US have already fucked Ukraine up enough right now though.

How did we fuck the Ukraine up? By offering them the chance to join the EU?

[greysaber]

the 'international community' is going to do exactly jack shit on this.

Russia could reclaim nearly all of it's old Soviet territory and the west will look the other way.

Now, if they start encroaching on actual EU clay, things may change. Notice how nervous Poland is. Also look to see something happening in Moldova soon™.

[Laize]

A fairly friendly democraticvally elected president was ousted in a coup only supported in one area of ukraine. The worst thing that could happen is civil war, if that happens i believe russia will intervene. I pray that that never comes to pass.

I feel that the EU and the US have already fucked Ukraine up enough right now though.

You ARE talking about the Democratically elected president who refused to sign amendments to the constitution that would have made it easier to impeach him? The one who was voted out (according to those selfsame amendments) by parliament not even a week ago?

That guy?

[ringpriest]

You ARE talking about the Democratically elected president who suspended the constitution right?

That guy?

What's wrong with suspending the Constitution? The US does it all the tim, and doesn't even need to have democratically elected presidents do it - court-appointed ones are just fine.
https://www.aclu.org/national-securi...tion-free-zone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

[Deleted]

Well, we definitely can't respond by weapons, that would be desastrous for the world. But we definitely can't let Russia do whatever they want, I know Crimea is inhabited by russian people but, with what happened on Georgia, letting Russia annex Crimea would feel like they could do whatever they want. It has to stop.

[Boricha]

I'd rather just let Europe / Russia handle that themselves.

[StayTuned]

I'm really sorry Ukraine, but I don't really care that much about you to go to war with Russia. The world should stay diplomatic and resolve the issues with politics. This ain't 1940 anymore and the only one who doesn't see it is Russia

[Deleted]

How did we fuck the Ukraine up? By offering them the chance to join the EU?

Well here is what happened. We tried to push NATO on them in 2008ish. They rejected it. By push I mean force. 2/3 of Ukrainians reject it. It was quietly abandoned. Then we have resorted to 'us or them' mentality game which has done nothing but tear the country in half. Neither Russia or the EU tried to compromise because its about geostratigic policy and we couldnt really give a fuck about the people there on a political level. The Western govenments have effectively overthrown a corrupt (but democratically elected) leader with ultranationalist militias. They didn't just get rid of the president they chased off most of the cabinet and completely destabilized the country. Then Russia launched a counter revolution with pro russian militias because of the power vacuum.

What has happened is that Russia can decide what to do with Crimea at will but is just using it to influence Ukraine as a whole atm. Crimea is already lost.

What are the consequences?

Russia win any war physically. Nato and the US will not fight militarily much like in the Russia–Georgia War. However war with Ukraine would be a economic, political, and cultural catastrophe for Russia. The prestige of NATO and the European Union would be shattered. And both groups in Ukraine have been drawn into a bigger conflict because they have allowed themselves to be manipulated by Russia and the West instead of choosing solidarity on thier common interests that vastly outweigh thier differences.

Who wins this? China. Although economically it could cause them to suffer, having America distracted for another decade is a huge plus for them. And Russia would become politically and economically dependant on China if they are hit by big sanctions.

Who loses? The common man in Ukraine.