WoD's proposed Mistweaver changes

[apepi]

But based on their frequently-asserted intentions, we can translate this as "Crane will not go live as is" — either it will get nerfed down, or Serpent will be made too good to refuse.

Too be honest Serpent Stance right now in blizzard current alpha iteration is very easy to refuse.

On Crane's Zeal vs Serpent stance I am not so sure. Blizzard has said that we should be healing around 50% of a healers heals, whether that factors in Crane's Zeal I am not sure. Even if it doesn't we would then have 70% of a healers heals, but that might be worth it to not have to channel and etc. I would like to see blizzard respond to how much mana crane stance/fistweaving will cost in mana, it still looks like 8% so far. Though ths all could change once we get some real gameplay numbers in here.

Oh and, Glyph of Surging Mist now only works in Spirited Crane. I don't see why but hey

Really? No losses here.

It seems like they changed it +295.747% spell power(115.747% up from the current one). How much spell power does it take to turn a bad spell into a good one?

[ryklin]

hey, mine is only an alt and I'm not sure if I'll level it, but what's the point on having soothing on my bar if it doesn't give chi and I don't have a 1s gcd on surging from casting it

and isn't making chi becoming a conscious mana-expenditure choice pretty much removing the only real gameplay difference from pallies (imo, the one that actually makes mw fun too)?
as opposed to now where you get it all the time with soothing

also, the surging only working as a smart-heal in crane is because they originally intended that glyph for easy fist-weaving without changing targets, and also because if soothing doesn't generate chi, I expect we'll see a LOT of just surging casting, possibly even jab-jab-uplift if jab is available in any form in serpent (jab currently is lower cost than surging right now, and with soothing not giving chi)

I hope it won't be worth it to stance dance to throw ReM, but I know that'll often be the case

and yeah, it currently looks like crane will be more effective at healing than serpent

also, CMs will be borderline impossible as monk (at least significantly harder than other classes) unless EM gets some major changes? at least with increased chi costs it'll seem less weak and less stack able, but I'm also afraid of it becoming too hard to cast due to mana drain

will we just punch stuff while running around on top of the tank with the path talent instead I guess?

[Totaltotemic]

Something worth noting, AoE damage is considerably more rare in Warlords and we know this for a fact.

Things like Thok won't happen ever again, but considering everyone else still has largely the same healing tools (barring Divine Star not being the most OP ability in the game anymore) and some classes are getting even more, and the fact that MW itself is keeping the same level of AoE healing with SCK/RJW, I think fights with Paragons or Siegecrafter levels of raid damage will generally by the norm. It's only on spread fights that MW is getting absolutely kicked in the balls, creating a very Cataclysm Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman feel where the MW is going to ride the bench of a fight like Grand Empress shows up with heavy raid damage but the raid is spread out.

Don't get me wrong, the level 100 talents are great and detonate chi is great.... for stacked up healing. Crane stance is great too, it's not too limiting. But what exactly is a MW supposed to do when the ranged are all spread out and SCK/RJW/Detonate/Chi Burst/BotS/Chi Explosion/Chi Torpedo are all completely useless? Spam Surging and Uplift? How do you compare on that kind of fight Chi Explosion and a Shaman's High Tide that lets Chain Heal bounce to all Riptide targets, which has a 20 yard bounce range when glyphed?

I'm seeing a giant, gaping hole that is the void left by Jab/Jab/Uplift, then filled by Soothing spam, and is now just empty again.

[apepi]

Things like Thok won't happen ever again, but considering everyone else still has largely the same healing tools (barring Divine Star not being the most OP ability in the game anymore) and some classes are getting even more, and the fact that MW itself is keeping the same level of AoE healing with SCK/RJW, I think fights with Paragons or Siegecrafter levels of raid damage will generally by the norm. It's only on spread fights that MW is getting absolutely kicked in the balls, creating a very Cataclysm Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman feel where the MW is going to ride the bench of a fight like Grand Empress shows up with heavy raid damage but the raid is spread out.

Don't get me wrong, the level 100 talents are great and detonate chi is great.... for stacked up healing. Crane stance is great too, it's not too limiting. But what exactly is a MW supposed to do when the ranged are all spread out and SCK/RJW/Detonate/Chi Burst/BotS/Chi Explosion/Chi Torpedo are all completely useless? Spam Surging and Uplift? How do you compare on that kind of fight Chi Explosion and a Shaman's High Tide that lets Chain Heal bounce to all Riptide targets, which has a 20 yard bounce range when glyphed?

I'm seeing a giant, gaping hole that is the void left by Jab/Jab/Uplift, then filled by Soothing spam, and is now just empty again.

But don't worry! Surging Mist is stronger!

Maybe they could make make Breath of the serpent a radius spell instead of a cone spell and make it 40 yards or something, but then that would be too easy.

[Lovestar]

I'm seeing a giant, gaping hole that is the void left by Jab/Jab/Uplift, then filled by Soothing spam, and is now just empty again.

Surge Surge Uplift!

For 6 seconds!

Until you OOM!

While the RSham dropping 4 Healing Rains on top of each other laughs at you!

[apepi]

Surge Surge Uplift!

For 6 seconds!

Until you OOM!

While the RSham dropping 4 Healing Rains on top of each other laughs at you!

Tbh, hasn't this always been one of our weaknesses?

[Spotnick]

Resto shamans have always been bad first tier of xpac, don't worry about them.

Not so sure why anyone would use Uplift instead of Chi Explosion unless people are spread out though.

Uplift is still linked to the RNG factor of renewing mist, Chi Explosion is just linked to proximity, you'll heal the full melee group by hitting the tank with it.

And it doesn't have a cast time, just a cooldown, so you can cast it on the move apparently unless I can't read tooltips.

Of course it's easy to say that with the mindset of SoO encounters, but, IDK, seems like doing SCK/RJW and use Chi Explosion to dump chi will make us the melee kings. That is assuming regen won't be an issue. Of course you'll still be standing in healing rain and efflorescence which requires a lot less work for probably a similar thoughput, but still.

[Lovestar]

Not so sure why anyone would use Uplift instead of Chi Explosion unless people are spread out though.

Well, spread heals is what we're fussing about atm though.

And it doesn't have a cast time, just a cooldown, so you can cast it on the move apparently unless I can't read tooltips.

ChiEx has no CD and a 1.5s cast in Serpent. It's instant in Crane, but it does the DPS stuff in Crane, not the healing stuff (ie, its healing in Crane is entirely a function of Eminence).

You may be confusing Detonate Chi, which blows up your healing spheres and is instant with a 15s CD.

[Totaltotemic]

The thing is that there are 4 major patterns of raid damage. Stacked raid-wide, spread raid-wide, stacked random, and spread random. MW is awesome at both kinds of stacked healing, SCK/RJW/Chi Burst/Chi Explosion/BotS/Chi Torpedo, whatever, great at stacked healing.

When it comes to spread raid-wide healing, MW is still okay because you can either steadily build chi and Uplift if it's Garalon style, or you can bank chi and save Brew for bursts and just spam Uplift up to 4 times in a row. It's not great, but it's manageable.

When it comes to spread random healing though, the ReM/Uplift interaction is still completely broken. While other healers press Wild Grown, Prayer of Healing, Light of Dawn, or glyphed Chain Heal to cover the people that get hurt, the MW uses Uplift and has to pray that an ReM that jumped anywhere between 2 and 20 seconds ago landed on a target that is being damaged right this second. Except what used to be covered up by mass chi generation and spamming Uplift so that it doesn't matter if only 3 or 4 targets are actually healed by it will now completely expose MW as a very weak healer.

All it takes is one fight in a raid tier or even an entire expansion to make guilds consider a spec a liability for consideration as part of the main raid. As soon as the next Grand Empress, Malkorok, or Paragons fight comes around in WoD that has a "hits all players within 8 yards" mechanic and extra random raid damage on top of it, people will see that MW doesn't have a critical tool that it needs and it can't be covered up by Uplift spam anymore. It's very disappointing that the broken as hell Renewing Mists mechanic seems to be the "core" part of the spec that everything revolves around and they didn't have a change slated for it.

[Master Po]

Renewing Mist will generate 1 Chi.
So is it really so bad that Soothing Mist does not give one Chi if they want us to use Surging Mist more often and as it generates 1 Chi?

[Deleted]

One main thing I'm confused about right now is how they've removed Blackout Kick's cleave because they "don't balance healing around potential targets". Teachings of the Monastery is now only in Serpent Stance (SCK's heal aura), meaning that either SCK/RJW will give more healing with more targets - or RJW will be an entirely useless ability for fistweaving.

[Acupuncher]

EM is fine in pvp..well it is pretty good. Well it is not the best but when everyone is full health and people are only going on one guy, use that chi to help a brother out.




Just thinking how we will not be using chi as much is just hurting my mind how we will compete with other healers. Our heals will have to heal for so much to make up for it. And we will just be sitting their for pretty much of the time. This is how I imagine mistweaver playstyle will be in wod:

LOOOOOL! So much like! And in the same breath, so very true

[Deleted]

Hope the info in this thread gets to teh peeps at Blizzard. Used my 90 boost on a Mist weaver and enjoying it, did have one before but nearing 530 ilvl on this. It seems to have a nice balance atm with FW and MW im free to do both. It does feel a bit uplift spammy but then again, 90% of the time in raids im spamming chain heal on my Resto main...

Seems they have no clue what to do MW, but running around dropping bubbles seems so sh**...

[Bartolo]

With sooting no longer generating chi, how are we supposed to sustain single target healing with enveloping?

[Master Po]

With sooting no longer generating chi, how are we supposed to sustain single target healing with enveloping?

You gain Chi by using Surging Mist, and Renewing Mist.

[Liff]

I'm actually a bit sad at all the raid CD removal from dps/tanks. Means I can't make up for my lack of decent CD by bringing dps that have 'em (on fights that it matters).. >_>
Hope they fiddle Revival and Cocoon a bit!

[Supliftz]

One reason we have much more changes known because we(mistweavers) have been tweeting the shit out of Celestalon/etc. So just looking at the patch notes does not tell us everything.

I am still scared on monks having nothing to do while moving. We can renewing mist and um...thats all.

Expel Harm, Chi Torpedo, SCK/RJW, Detonate Chi, Chi Wave/Zen Sphere.

I don't think it's a big deal to have fewer things to do on the move, considering mistweavers are getting mobility buffs out the ass in WoD.

All this doomsaying is kinda dishearting though, and people thought I was bad lol. We have bigger things to worry about in our toolkit, like EnM, Zen Med and Revival.

Chi gen is going to be fine with the buffs to surging mist healing/mana costs. Even if Blizzard wants chi gen to matter more, they'll probably buff uplift's numbers to make it more meaningful relative to it's chi cost.

[Liff]

I would like to see blizzard respond to how much mana crane stance/fistweaving will cost in mana, it still looks like 8% so far. Though ths all could change once we get some real gameplay numbers in here.

This kind of thing?
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...96178424872960
Or you mean how much the actual stance button will cost (to change stance)?



Surging glyph is great atm, but with their overall healing goals, we shouldn't need a glyph in order to avoid a 1 second cast being completely sniped.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think it's a big deal to have fewer things to do on the move, considering mistweavers are getting mobility buffs out the ass in WoD.

Gimme? :O I only noticed the roll & transcendence perks.

[Jamie081]

Is Chi Brew changing? A new talent was data mined
http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=152173
Chi Brew would be a pretty mandatory talent considering the whole new slower chi generation idea

[Supliftz]

Well Transcendence and Roll perks are already pretty big. But Glyph of Soothing going to be pretty strong for mobility.