SoO dps

[Alvito]

Flex: 200k (just a guess)
Norm: 330k (Raidbots 25M)
Heroic: 450k (Raidbots 25M)

But the answer, as well as the question, is pointless.

Bad news then, by looking at your WoL numbers you aren't fit to raid normal on many fights and only protectors in heroic.

[Count Zero]

I've done 330k in 560 on juggernaut a couple times (likely with some luck) and the pieces I'm missing are a weapon a trinket and a neck, it's also possible they had some warforged inflating.

If they're more consistent/better/slightly better geared/luckier/better class I could see 350k being doable. I main enhancement shaman which is already quite high up the single target list though with only a handful of specs above.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...all/14/60/p95/

Juggs 25 normal, all parses ... 350k is over 95th percentile for that spec, which means only about 4% of Enhammies do more dps on that fight

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...100/14/60/p80/

Even sorted by top 100 you'd be just over 80th percentile for Enhammies ...

Impressive

[Toffie]

Flex 140-200k
(530-545 ilvl)

Normal 180-250k
(545-560 ilvl)

Heroic 270-450k
(560-575 ilvl)

Flex: 200k (just a guess)
Norm: 330k (Raidbots 25M)
Heroic: 450k (Raidbots 25M)

But the answer, as well as the question, is pointless.

LOL WHAT?
Those numbers are WAY OFF.

[Jiigeri]

I've done 330k in 560 on juggernaut a couple times (likely with some luck) and the pieces I'm missing are a weapon a trinket and a neck, it's also possible they had some warforged inflating.

If they're more consistent/better/slightly better geared/luckier/better class I could see 350k being doable. I main enhancement shaman which is already quite high up the single target list though with only a handful of specs above.

Of course it's possible if the boss dies fast enough. For most people that's definately not the case. Haven't done normal juggernaut for a while and we're doing that silly outranging stuff in 10m heroic, so my current personal record is at ~403k dps for HC Juggernaut. Might be able to push a tad higher without outranging. That's as combat rogue and I think I had 575-576ilvl at the time. Atm sitting at 578ilvl, can't break my personal record due to bad RNG / timing due to ever changing raid-dps.

But yeah TLDR; DPS expectations from certain ilvl range(s) is a bit silly and shouldn't be done.

[Deleted]

500k as Elemental on something like Iron Juggernaut HC would be a clear World Number 1 by 50k DPS.

Also the post I'm quoting also said "players could do ~25% more depending on what class they play" - a Feral Druid being crazy good on single target (by his reasoning) would be expected to 600k+ (do you not see how ridiculous that is?)

Doing 480k DPS on IJ as a Feral Druid would put you in the top 40, let alone this 25% more thing.

The only log of you doing IJ you did 350k DPS (and got ranked with it), not 460k-480k, your guild has probably stopped logging.

Yeah his numbers are exaggerated. I wasn't aware that elemental was that bad at single target though.
The problem about Iron Juggernaut is that many guilds, mine included, still get knocked back during phase 2, which makes it quite horrible to do good dps. That 350k number is probably quite old, as we've had a break for a month during Christmas, have not been logging farm on WoL since then [I believe]. Considering that I only had an 80% uptime, wasn't using DoC or treants, I am completely convinced that I could do a lot more damage.
The 480k number was from a Norushen log where I did about 500k dps on personal recount. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done
Take away the cleave and a bit of the trinket uptime and I would judge that 460k-480k is possible for me single target.

[Raiju]

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...all/14/60/p95/

Juggs 25 normal, all parses ... 350k is over 95th percentile for that spec, which means only about 4% of Enhammies do more dps on that fight

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Iron_Jugg...100/14/60/p80/

Even sorted by top 100 you'd be just over 80th percentile for Enhammies ...

Impressive

I don't do 330k consistently although usually aim over 300k :P

[Notdev]

Setting timespan to one year and looking at average parses from the start of SoO is a better guess at what minimum dps nowadays should be.

~120-150k is a good minimum for the earlier normal fights. You likely won't run into DPS issues for a little while if everyone is capable of pulling those numbers and aren't normal geared.

Nowadays, all things considered, ~200k is "average" for normals. 200k is more than enough to clear all normals and many of the early heroics.

Minimum entry heroic DPS is probably 180-250k. Average DPS nowadays in heroics is probably ~300k, probably a little higher.

For flex, if everyone's pulling 120k single target, you'll be fine. However with a lot of the retardation going around in Flex, you probably want 150k-200k for flex 3/4 to be certain.

I heal our main raid, but I have a Frost Mage alt. Last week I did 315k on Normal 25 Juggernaut with 562 gear. Still stuck using the ToT Valor trinket...

[britishbubba]

I think I can sum up this thread really well.

"I don't understand that shorter kill times will artifically inflate my dps, so I think 375k dps on juggernaut in full normal is a completely reasonable expectation."

Spoilers, if you have a 20% uptime on bloodlust, it means you overgear the encounter. Let alone if you kill a boss inside your 3 minute CD cycle.

[Count Zero]

I don't do 330k consistently although usually aim over 300k :P

Ah damn, misread your first post, somehow saw 350 instead of 330

[Raiju]

Ah damn, misread your first post, somehow saw 350 instead of 330

I did 341k on malkorok today ^_^ (563 ilvl), still got my flex wep. Kill was a little shorter than the usual (3:30-4mins)

[Normie]

Even this would be slightly higher than it should be because of people doing normal in heroic gear.

Raidbots data is hugely problematic and all the problems make typical/achievable DPS look higher than it really is.

Numerous selection biases (only characters who are logged, only "popular"/"good" specs, "good" players tend to play only "good" specs meaning that "bad" specs are represented only by "bad" players ...)

No ability to filter by gear level, or attempt to normalize for gear level

Et cetera.

The graphs are interesting to look at but by and large they are garbage.

[Radio]

Reroll Brewmaster, solo-tank Blackfuse (normal) and do a 9.36 million keg smash crit on a shredder, then you have enough DPS.

- - - Updated - - -

Raidbots data is hugely problematic and all the problems make typical/achievable DPS look higher than it really is.

Numerous selection biases (only characters who are logged, only "popular"/"good" specs, "good" players tend to play only "good" specs meaning that "bad" specs are represented only by "bad" players ...)

No ability to filter by gear level, or attempt to normalize for gear level

Et cetera.

The graphs are interesting to look at but by and large they are garbage.

If you do a 2 week average sample or so for relevant classes/specs it feels pretty close to 'achievable'/'average' numbers, though it doesn't work for tank DPS whoring, the tank DPS averages on raidbots are absurdely low.

[GoKs]

Flex: 200k (just a guess)
Norm: 330k (Raidbots 25M)
Heroic: 450k (Raidbots 25M)

But the answer, as well as the question, is pointless.

WoW so the World First guilds pulled 450K with more or less 563ilvl gear....
Damit why are all the rest slacking so much, wonder what they are pulling now that they have Full BiS...... 800K-900K?

Come to think about it, they propably had much lower ilvl gear, since they had only one week of raiding before HC mode opened round 556-558?

[Durantye]

Raidbots data is hugely problematic and all the problems make typical/achievable DPS look higher than it really is.

Numerous selection biases (only characters who are logged, only "popular"/"good" specs, "good" players tend to play only "good" specs meaning that "bad" specs are represented only by "bad" players ...)

No ability to filter by gear level, or attempt to normalize for gear level

Et cetera.

The graphs are interesting to look at but by and large they are garbage.

Raid bot dps is actually extremely low if using the 'all parses' option the top 100 doesn't fit guilds progressing on that boss though, but the top 100 logs are very good to look at if attempting to rank.

But I'd say asking for a dps number by difficulty isn't really effective since dps varies in a huge way on a fight to fight basis, single target though I'd say flex groups should aim for 150k plus, normal groups should aim for 250-300k this late in the tier and heroic is looking at 350-400 highly dependent on RNG, raid dps, and spec though, such as; a Shadow priest participating in a progression kill will probably not see over 300k on the fight.

[Normie]

Raid bot dps is actually extremely low if using the 'all parses' option the top 100 doesn't fit guilds progressing on that boss though, but the top 100 logs are very good to look at if attempting to rank.

But I'd say asking for a dps number by difficulty isn't really effective since dps varies in a huge way on a fight to fight basis, single target though I'd say flex groups should aim for 150k plus, normal groups should aim for 250-300k this late in the tier and heroic is looking at 350-400 highly dependent on RNG, raid dps, and spec though, such as; a Shadow priest participating in a progression kill will probably not see over 300k on the fight.

People asking "what is a good DPS for X instance" are usually asking "what do I need to progress through X instance," and 99% of what you see on Raidbots is farm logs. Which is not the same thing by a long shot.

There is no case ever in which Raidbot DPS is "extremely low." When I say it's "way too high" I am referring to "all parses." "Top 100" is just such a stupid set of numbers that they should be ignored/deleted outright.

[Durantye]

People asking "what is a good DPS for X instance" are usually asking "what do I need to progress through X instance," and 99% of what you see on Raidbots is farm logs. Which is not the same thing by a long shot.

There is no case ever in which Raidbot DPS is "extremely low." When I say it's "way too high" I am referring to "all parses." "Top 100" is just such a stupid set of numbers that they should be ignored/deleted outright.

All of the Raidbots dps averages are extremely low when used in the 'all parses' section no matter how small or large you make the timeframe, Immerseus 25HC 254k for Destro warlocks on it is the 'average' dps however doing that much places you at directly 50th percentile, extremely easy to obtain assuming you aren't extremely undergeared. All of the 'average' all parses are extremely low and easily obtainable, these numbers aren't useful for much but you said they are extremely high which is completely not the case at all.

The top 100 parses are useful just not for you perhaps, the top 100 takes the very best and averages it out, in other words if you wish to rank these are the numbers to aim for. For the average player these numbers are incomprehensible but as you progress through the raiding scene you'll see they are not as hard to obtain as first glance portrays. They are only slightly higher than they should be from bugged parses, but also for unpopular specs the Top 100 option helps a high-end player understand what to aim for such as if I wanted to see how well i'm doing in Demonology I would be able to use the top 100 logs to see what the best demo locks are doing.

[Bllets]

The top 100 parses are useful just not for you perhaps, the top 100 takes the very best

Very best and padding aren't really the same thing. These people are most likely good players, but the numbers aren't all that trustworthy either, mainly because:
1. Their fights are more than likely way shorter than people doing progress (We're talking progress DPS here)
2. They are most likely padding meters, using TotT, etc.
3. Some of those numbers aren't worth jack because they are from 30-60 seconds fights.

And all the other crap. You might use those top100 for comparing your own farm kills to them, but how is that relevant for this thread, were it was about minimum DPS required for the various difficulties?

[Durantye]

Very best and padding aren't really the same thing. These people are most likely good players, but the numbers aren't all that trustworthy either, mainly because:
1. Their fights are more than likely way shorter than people doing progress (We're talking progress DPS here)
2. They are most likely padding meters, using TotT, etc.
3. Some of those numbers aren't worth jack because they are from 30-60 seconds fights.

And all the other crap. You might use those top100 for comparing your own farm kills to them, but how is that relevant for this thread, were it was about minimum DPS required for the various difficulties?

Our argument is separate from the base of the forum simply arguing that he is calling them useless when they clearly are not, yes they are padding and yes there are bugged parses (though not exactly many to destroy the parses) which I also mentioned. I posted my original thoughts on perhaps numbers to do difficulties, and yes they are far shorter but if it was all padding then the boss wouldn't go down so fast would he? Yes there is much padding but it is also something to look at. My argument was that the site isn't as broken as people make it out to be and has it's uses.

[Bllets]

Our argument is separate from the base of the forum simply arguing that he is calling them useless when they clearly are not, yes they are padding and yes there are bugged parses (though not exactly many to destroy the parses) which I also mentioned. I posted my original thoughts on perhaps numbers to do difficulties, and yes they are far shorter but if it was all padding then the boss wouldn't go down so fast would he? Yes there is much padding but it is also something to look at. My argument was that the site isn't as broken as people make it out to be and has it's uses.

All statistics has its uses, but people rarely use raidbots or statistics in a correct way. Using raidbots top100 as the needed dps for progression is just terrible wrong.

[Deleted]

Jesus, the guy simply asked for guidelines of "okay" dps for flex/normal/hc and ofcourse it derails into a epeen-thread.