SoO dps

[Durantye]

All statistics has its uses, but people rarely use raidbots or statistics in a correct way. Using raidbots top100 as the needed dps for progression is just terrible wrong.

I didn't say that top 100 is good for progression use, I posted 150k for flex 250-300k for normals depending on spec and 350-400 also depending on spec single target, I also raid 25-man so my numbers might be a bit higher compared to 10 considering more raid cds.

[Anzen]

Jesus, the guy simply asked for guidelines of "okay" dps for flex/normal/hc and ofcourse it derails into a epeen-thread.

You can always sort of guess the threads it'll happen to.

I always cringe when I see a thread that mentions DPS, progress, or anything related.

[sn0wman]

What a stupid thread this ended up in.

There is no static number how much dps anyone should do, depends on your role in the fight, class, specc, is there adds? is your class good for aoing? is there much going around? etc etc.. so many factors. Im raiding heroic and most of our dps are 570ish ilvl. They go normal from 270-330 with some peaks up to 400-500ish if they can tunnel the boss without caring much for anything else. But most are around 300k ish in a normal heroic fight.

[Normie]

Jesus, the guy simply asked for guidelines of "okay" dps for flex/normal/hc and ofcourse it derails into a epeen-thread.

It's sort of a wondrous thing to watch isn't it.

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The top 100 parses are useful just not for you perhaps, the top 100 takes the very best and averages it out, in other words if you wish to rank these are the numbers to aim for. For the average player these numbers are incomprehensible but as you progress through the raiding scene you'll see they are not as hard to obtain as first glance portrays. They are only slightly higher than they should be from bugged parses, but also for unpopular specs the Top 100 option helps a high-end player understand what to aim for such as if I wanted to see how well i'm doing in Demonology I would be able to use the top 100 logs to see what the best demo locks are doing.

I doubt that there is a single publicly available top 100 parse that ever reflects anything other than a mixture of overgearing and padding and just dumb luck DPS.

It's not any better a number "to aim for" than INFINITY is. It's a number that is not -- not ever -- achievable on the average by any player. That is not a number you will ever achieve legitimately other than by accident or deliberate padding.

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Using raidbots top100 as the needed dps for progression is just terrible wrong.

Someone who gets it!

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Immerseus 25HC 254k for Destro warlocks on it is the 'average' dps however doing that much places you at directly 50th percentile, extremely easy to obtain assuming you aren't extremely undergeared.

You think that "all parses" raidbots for a boss that has been farmed for months reflects anything even remotely resembling the DPS needed to get that boss down?

Like I said, every single distortion in raidbots serves to drive the numbers up to ridiculous, unnecessary, and/or unobtainable values. There is nothing in the aggregation of data from raidbots that in any way makes the data useful for determining what DPS is needed for progression. The only meaningful result you can obtain from looking at "all parses" data is "whatever it is, it's a lot less than this."

If I had access to combat logs and player profiles in the way that Blizzard does, I could tell you very precisely what DPS is needed for progression. With access to the fairly bad/unreliable data that logging sites have, I could still produce a decent guess. But the logging sites do not IN ANY WAY give you the answer to a question like:

"What do we need to progress, and/or can we expect to see as we progress, through the bosses in this raid?"

[Deleted]

Very best and padding aren't really the same thing. These people are most likely good players, but the numbers aren't all that trustworthy either, mainly because:
1. Their fights are more than likely way shorter than people doing progress (We're talking progress DPS here)
2. They are most likely padding meters, using TotT, etc.
3. Some of those numbers aren't worth jack because they are from 30-60 seconds fights.

And all the other crap. You might use those top100 for comparing your own farm kills to them, but how is that relevant for this thread, were it was about minimum DPS required for the various difficulties?

I honestly doubt that there are as many people padding as you seem to think. Only very few top parses have far below average kill times, amazing trinket procs and/or are padding meters. For a player that knows his class well, the average dps is way above 50th percentile.

OT: The dps that you NEED for progression and the dps that you WANT for progression is a way different number. That's where people in this thread are going wrong. You don't NEED 300k dps from each player for 10hc Blackfuse. God knows you want that, because it shortens the fight to like 6 minutes which is way easier to sustain.

[Deleted]

When soo came out my guild ilvl was around 545, meaning we had full hc gear from tot. We overgeared every boss until siegecrafter which was first boss that required atleast some tactics. Now in full hc tot gear ppl pulled roughly 200k in single target fights, and with that damage we overgeared whole normal mode, meaning that 150k dps in first half of SoO is enough if you know tactics.

[Deleted]

Flex doesnt req. DPS.. Normal is around 200K.
Depends on gear. SoO trinkets, meta and leg. cloak gives you a big step up on the dmg.

[Deleted]

Flex: 200k (just a guess)
Norm: 330k (Raidbots 25M)
Heroic: 450k (Raidbots 25M)

dps depends very well on wich bossfight it is, wich class and spec you are playing and simply the tactic that your guild is using, 450k dps is doable on quite alot of fights in hc gear, but it will still depend on the way your guild does the fight

[Deleted]

I do over 9000 dps at times.

[Deleted]

I sometime wonder if people throw around absurd hyperbole like "every top 100 parse is from padding or insane RNG" because they need something else other than their own skill level to blame their lack of performance compared to others on. OT: it's obviously impossible to quote one number to cover every class/spec/boss, but given the amount of time that SoO has been out for, if you've been playing anything like actively, the gear you should have makes the dps checks utterly irrelevant.

[Bllets]

I sometime wonder if people throw around absurd hyperbole like "every top 100 parse is from padding or insane RNG" because they need something else other than their own skill level to blame their lack of performance compared to others on

No one but you said "every top 100", but I guess you referring to me at least, and I don't compare my DPS to raidbots top100, since first and foremost I don't have that gear and second I rather aim at hiting what I sim at on those single target fights where it is possible or use the Sim as a guidelines on rest.

Ignoring padding, Speed/farm kill and bugged fights and say that top100 is a good guideline for maximum possible DPS on progression is a equally bad standpoint as saying every top 100 parse is padding or insane RNG.

[Deleted]

I doubt that there is a single publicly available top 100 parse that ever reflects anything other than a mixture of overgearing and padding and just dumb luck DPS.

Oh look, someone did.

I never said anything about using top 100 logs to judge what good dps is for progress (it's clearly not), I just wanted to point out that the majority of high ranks are down to skill (and gear yes, but most people that are good enough to rank that high have pretty similar gear levels).

[Etherius]

Here's what I'd consider some estimates for each difficulty (apart from LFR):

Flex: 125k - 175k
Normal: 175k - 250k
Heroic: 250k - 350k

You could probably pull the low end of those numbers for the first 8 encounters. Of course, there's factors like AOE segments (Galakras) or downtime mechanics (Nazgrim or Immerseus) but for the majority that's I think a fair ballpark.

The dps that you NEED for progression and the dps that you WANT for progression is a way different number.

Very much this. I wouldn't say you need enough DPS to push garrosh into Phase 3 before a 2nd empowered whirling corruption or even a 3rd intermission. It's doable. More DPS simplifies sustaining and in some instances can surpass tougher / more mechanics.

[Toiran]

Whenever I'm sad, I just come back to read this thread.

10/10.

[Anzen]

The 480k number was from a Norushen log where I did about 500k dps on personal recount. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done
Take away the cleave and a bit of the trinket uptime and I would judge that 460k-480k is possible for me single target.

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but you deal 25% increased damage to the Amalgam when you're purified.

Just re-read this thread, put a smile on my face.

[Deleted]

Don't mean to burst your bubble, but you deal 25% increased damage to the Amalgam when you're purified.

As far as I'm aware that is not the case. Being purified should only cause you to do normal damage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here please.

[Qualia]

^ Having 0 Corruption cause you to do normal damage (Corruption spell has a damage reduction mod.). Having Purified (de?)buff increase your damage and healing done. I don't remember the exact number, but yes, being Purified increase your damage done (to the Almagation?)

[Deleted]

^ Having 0 Corruption cause you to do normal damage (Corruption spell has a damage reduction mod.). Having Purified (de?)buff increase your damage and healing done. I don't remember the exact number, but yes, being Purified increase your damage done (to the Almagation?)

This one right? http://www.wowhead.com/spell=144452#see-also-other
How long does it last? Anyway... embarrassing that I never realized.

[Qualia]

Until the boss is dead or you lose your Purified (de)buff = you soak something (purified even lasts through death), which we probably don't as DPS =)

[kamuimac]

from what i rememebr from progress my guild had average dps of +/-220k on garosh normal but component of it was defintly aoe from p1 so u need around 200k to clear normal i would say +/- 175 k up to garosh. all those who claim how they had higher numebrs were simply padding meters all along ,

but i guess its nice to stroke ur epens when most of those who do, play in hardcore guilds not in one of average hc guild which is now stuck on thok hc or siegecrafter hc.

if u are a really good player just admit it openly and dont pretend how "shitty" u are and how eveyrbody around u should do exackt ur numebrs when u play in top 0.5 % of raiders. its just showing how small person u are in reality not how modest u are when u twist facts to put others in bad spot deliberatly