Let me get this straight. Classes aren't viable end-game? Only Jobs?

[SodiumChloride]

If base classes don't work at end-game ...

What's the point of having so many classes then?

Not to mention their lack of viability is not 100% due to their class design. If I'm right, there is a stat boost involved when you take a job and jobs have better gear choices - i.e. not helping ...

Class vs Job was suppose to be a trade between flexibility/versatility and specialized unique actions. No?

Tell ya what SE, let Summoners summon Carbies in addition to the elementals - just rename the spells to summon the elementals to "Summon <Elemental's name>" ... etc. Done.

PS: I would post on the official forums but ... "Temporary Session is invalid. Please try again."

[zito]

It is a bit complicated, imo too complicated for words but in short Jobs have certain specializations (more tools) for specific tasks that work well in group settings. Classes have great hybrid flexibility which is amazing for soloing. Jobs can also only take a few ability's from 2 specific classes while Classes can take more abilities from any of each other.

Some people also view classes are the training wheels of the job system and when they add new jobs they can tie them into already existing classes to make some interesting cross class combos.

[Grym]

The base classed are not supposed to be generally viable for end game.

In a solo situation, it is better if you can equip your character with whatever you need to be self sufficient, melee take some heals and may be even Protect and such, while healers try to get more offensive abilities.

In a end game senario, you will be playing in a team. Why would you as a dps would need a lot of healing and support abilities when there are healers and BRD in your group? In this case, you would, and should, specialise in what your class do best, hence the Job.

There are times that if your FC allow you, maybe you can try something interesting, like when 2 healers not needed, can a BLM or SMN switch back to class and equip some healing and support abilities and just use 1 healer? Possibly, it is up to your group (if your group not allow you to do that it is down to the group, not the limitation of class). But as a dps, a BLM would be more powerful than a THM, just because they are more focus and specialised. In time there may be more abilities out there that worth taking that may (or may not) make THM more appealing, but as it is now, in a end game enviornment, you would be specialised in your specifc role, hence a diversed class wouldn't be as welcoming.

[Arkenaw]

Jobs are better period. Honestly, anyone that does class instead of job for cross abilities even solo is probably terrible at the game. It's like using a level 100 magikarp.

[Kutartwo]

Two things.
1. Storyline. The story has you completing quests for your class. Lets use an example of THM. You do a bunch of quests and trials for the THM guild. Once you reach your peak of the THM (as in the guild can't teach you anymore) as well as learning a bit of another class, the more powerful job takes notice of you and offers you to train above and beyond what any regular THM can become, ie the Black Mage.

2. From what I understand the original design wasn't meant to be 1 job per class, there were meant to be more. As patches and expansions are added they will be putting more jobs in with classes so you can branch off.

Jobs were designed to be more powerful, and they expected you to use them in end game. There was a point the Lancer was more powerful than the dragoon because of Cross class abilities from the archer. But they nerfed those as it became clear people would rather play end game content with the lancer and achieve better numbers.

[SodiumChloride]

Why let you level the base class to 50 then?

Wasn't the design intent to allow you to choose between Cross-Class Actions and unique more specialized Job Actions - that only your job has.

Also certain jobs replacing certain class abilities makes me sad, e.g. Carbies get replaced by Egis. I wouldn't mind the SMN so much if they let me keep the Carbies.

Speaking of specialization for group content ... Why the Titan-Egi then? You will get kicked if you pull that out in a group.

[Sorrior]

Well in say PVP from what I know Marauders are stronger then WAR and in say Titan HM if acting as DPS then MRD also has some advantages...

But I think the general summary is supposed to be Jobs excel at groups Classes at solo...Though IN GENERAL the differemces are negligable and in some cases jobs are just plain better(see WAR getting more self heals).

[Realsykes]

I can see many of you did not play Dungeons and Dragons back in the day....shameeeeeeee

[TipTopPoet]

From what I understand the original design wasn't meant to be 1 job per class, there were meant to be more. As patches and expansions are added they will be putting more jobs in with classes so you can branch off.

This. They will be adding more jobs as the game progresses.

[SodiumChloride]

The original intent was that Classes could be more versatile and Jobs were more focused.

Of course, in a trinity based game where each role really needs only excel in their one role, this wasn't an idea that was going to hold up. So here we are!

That said, I wonder if this Jobs only set-up is "self imposed".

In WoW there was a strange phenomenon with Flex groups (dungeons that allowed anywhere from 10 to 25 players; content scales with players) where the player based decided that 14 is the magic number of players to have ...

So in FFXIV, if a DPS does slightly less damage but gains survivability ... it could be compensated by a tank that does more damage but takes a slight hit in survivability. In the end, the amount of damage a healer has to heal is the same, assuming it designed properly to balance out, as the DPS needs less healing while the tank needs more. Other combinations are also possible ...

[PuppetShowJustice]

I can see many of you did not play Dungeons and Dragons back in the day....shameeeeeeee

You give SE too much credit. This isn't based on D&D style class advancement. This is just SE not knowing what to do with their own classes -- just like in FFXI.

[zito]

Right, but then both people aren't doing their job as well.

Depends on how much of the job they need to do. I mean there are some videos of healers solo healing extreme mode titan and such but what about those healers that almost solo it but just needed that tiny bit a support? A class would be suited here.

It's just too.... specific in general though.

[Sorrior]

Right, but then both people aren't doing their job as well.

Granted in 99% of situations it doesn't matter. But it's still contrary to the role design of the game.

One good example actually is DF titan HM in 2.0. Almost nobody wanted a WAR tank and as a WAR I had to que due to the quest. Welp a few times I qued as MRD instead for a little extra DPS it works.

Plus some jobs if not many open field wise are worse then classes if only due to just a bit more survivability.

Then there is the whole thing with how supposedly in PVP MRD is better then WAR.

[SodiumChloride]

Right, but then both people aren't doing their job as well.

Granted in 99% of situations it doesn't matter. But it's still contrary to the role design of the game.

Again. Who is to say what each player's job is?

Why define it so strictly?

[Lyese]

Again. Who is to say what each player's job is?

Why define it so strictly?

Because it IS defined so strictly. Job in the literal sense of "PLD/WAR = Tank roles," etc.

[Sorrior]

Because it IS defined so strictly. Job in the literal sense of "PLD/WAR = Tank roles," etc.

True but WAR and MRD at least get asked to be DPS often enough. Then at lower levels especially pretty much any class can tank. Still laugh at the idiot who thought that a LNC/DRG coupdn't handle totorak(tank dropped was in 2.0 maybe just after 2.1ad con and an ACN...The ACN kept insisting we let his pet tank and that "LNC AREN'T TANKS SO THEY CANNOT TANK ANYTHING MY CARB IS A TANK HEALER JUST NEEDS TO HEAL HIM"

joke is I was only there to help a FC mate who was the dc'd tank.

moral of the stpry is we're not as absolute as we could be.

[SodiumChloride]

Because it IS defined so strictly. Job in the literal sense of "PLD/WAR = Tank roles," etc.

That doesn't mean the game can only be played strictly a singular way.

That if your role is DPS, you must max out DPS at the expense of everything else. That if you are a tank, tanking should be all you ever do, that specing for a bit of damage will get you burned at the stake.

I don't recall any announcements to that effect.

Half of the "classes" in the game are "flexi" classes - i.e. Everything that isn't a Job. The design of the game allows customization.

Why bother if the flexi classes (i.e. Classes) aren't usable at end-game?

This is why I wonder if it's a player self-imposed restriction or if game balance is really broken - and if it's the latter, it needs to be fixed.

[zito]

Why bother if the flexi classes (i.e. Classes) aren't usable at end-game?

Because the end game focuses on performing specific rolls that fit jobs more. When they make content specifically to be used with some flexibility (which will probably be never outside of FATES and quests) classes will have a consistent viable end game roll.

But I can see a professional healer going a class for a dungeon run to do some hybrid healing + dps on the side or something. Or even in crystal tower because lolcrystaltower final boss does what?

[SodiumChloride]

Because the end game focuses on performing specific rolls that fit jobs more. When they make content specifically to be used with some flexibility (which will probably be never outside of FATES and quests) classes will have a consistent viable end game roll.

But I can see a professional healer going a class for a dungeon run to do some hybrid healing + dps on the side or something. Or even in crystal tower because lolcrystaltower final boss does what?

That's the thing. There is no reason why a DPS tank can't be compensate with a off healing DPS. The throughput of the group should in theory be the same.

To be honest, IMHO they should make it adjustable on the fly where you can adjust your contributions (within limits) to each role depending on how the group is working out.

There is no reason why they should constrict players 100% to one role only. Given the way their classes are designed, I don't believe that's what they have in mind either.

[zito]

There is no reason why they should constrict players 100% to one role only. Given the way their classes are designed, I don't believe that's what they have in mind either.

Can you not equip a class weapon anywhere? No? Then you are not constricted to a role.