[WoD] Protection Paladin Megathread

[Kortane]

Let us hope this is just a significant typo/error.

It is indeed! I don't think they would make Divine Purpose utterly useless.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...47563166900225

[Deleted]

How is 10% block bad?

Block is just utter crap so 10% block is just utter trash.

[Raeph]

Looks like the new weapon enchants have been datamined:

http://beta.wowdb.com/items/112160-e...k-of-blackrock - proc 81250 armor for 12 secs, only procs below 50% hp
http://beta.wowdb.com/items/112164-e...ark-of-warsong - proc 162500 haste, diminishes by 10% every 2 secs
http://beta.wowdb.com/items/112165-e...-the-frostwolf - proc 81250 multistrike for 6 secs, can stack up to 2 times
http://beta.wowdb.com/items/112115-e...-of-shadowmoon - proc 81250 spirit for 15 secs, only procs below 50% mana
http://beta.wowdb.com/items/112093-e...shattered-hand - proc a bleed on your target that lasts 6 seconds

Shadowmoon is obviously for healers. Shattered hand is a bleed and frostwolf at current stat priorities multistrike is low priority to us. Warsong and Blackrock though...hmm...

On an side note, the proc values appear to be pre-squish amounts. If you multiply each by 4% you get more reasonable values, in keeping with current datamined gear examples. So Blackrock would be 3250 armor and Warsong would be 6500 haste.

6500 haste is 81% haste at current stat values (80 rating per 1%), the rating diminishing by 10% every 2 seconds.
should work like:
proc - 6500 - 81%
2 sec - 5850 - 73%
4 sec - 5200 - 65%
6 sec - 4550 - 57%
8 sec - 3900 - 49%
10 sec - 3250 - 41%
12 sec - 2600 - 33%
14 sec - 1950 - 24%
16 sec - 1300 - 16%
18 sec - 650 - 8%
20 sec - 0

Not sure on armor value currently.

[Rewyn]

When you block, which is physical attacks only, you reduce it by 30%. It ends up being just north of 3% mitigation to physical attacks.

Gladiator Stance gives 5% resist all(magic, physical, a bad day, etc).

As a tank, given Cel has even said the damage/thorns mechanic of HS is rather insignificant, what would you rather have? 3% phys resist or 5% resist all and the option to go in an offensive stance to burn a boss or in the rare situations where you don't need to tank for the rest of a fight?

[Ansekh]

didn't gladiator stance prevent you from entering or exiting it mid fight?

http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=152276

but still holy shield remains compared to gladiator's resolve bad or to our own lvl 100 talents.

[Pigglix]

If you pick Gladiator Resolve, you cant switch stances in combat. People really need to stop thinking Gladiator Stance will be something for off tanks.

Its a dps spec meant to be competitive with arms/fury baked into prot spec. period.

[Deleted]

When you block, which is physical attacks only, you reduce it by 30%. It ends up being just north of 3% mitigation to physical attacks.

Gladiator Stance gives 5% resist all(magic, physical, a bad day, etc).

As a tank, given Cel has even said the damage/thorns mechanic of HS is rather insignificant, what would you rather have? 3% phys resist or 5% resist all and the option to go in an offensive stance to burn a boss or in the rare situations where you don't need to tank for the rest of a fight?

Due to have combat tables work it is far less than 3% and it is extremely non reliable.

[Gemini Soul]

Good, let's start talkin' about the note:


As a protadin you (actually) gain no benefit in gearing for crit, as opposite to a Prot war where you have mechanics as Ultimatum or sword and board(iirc).
what do you think about this?

Also, it seems that the change about seal of righteousness to morph CS to hammer when activated was reverted, good.

That is a great change, with out reforging. This passive effectively makes any crit on our gear into a tank stat. Will allow us to share gear with Holy/Ret

Also with them giving prot seal of insight baack, does that make Empowered seals great for prot now.

[nightfalls]

Heavy Handed causes the Butcher to attack the player closest to his current target with a copy of all of his melee attacks. These attacks can be mitigated and avoided as usual. If another player is not close enough, the second attack will trigger on the primary target.

Why am I already thinking people are at least going to try solo tanking this?

[Deleted]

That is a great change, with out reforging. This passive effectively makes any crit on our gear into a tank stat. Will allow us to share gear with Holy/Ret

Parry is not a tank stat though. Crit is still only useful for damage really.

- - - Updated - - -

Heavy Handed causes the Butcher to attack the player closest to his current target with a copy of all of his melee attacks. These attacks can be mitigated and avoided as usual. If another player is not close enough, the second attack will trigger on the primary target.

Why am I already thinking people are at least going to try solo tanking this?

Challenge accepted.

[Rewyn]

If you pick Gladiator Resolve, you cant switch stances in combat. People really need to stop thinking Gladiator Stance will be something for off tanks.

Its a dps spec meant to be competitive with arms/fury baked into prot spec. period.

That is not the point. Ignore the 'main' aspect of that talent.

Its 'passive' aspect is 5% mitigation. That in and of itself is better than holy shield. The fact it also lets you assume a DPS spec (even if you cant swap back out of it) is just jelly on your biscuit.

Its not a case that Glad Stance is too good, its Holy Shield is ~that~ bad. 10% block and mediocre thorns damage is terrible. This talent could have been a number of other things (most logically, an enhancement to Shield of the Righteous, adding some secondary effect to it) but Celestalon has a hard on right now with nostalgia with Paladins, wanting to re-imagine failed old mechanics (seal twisting, holy shield) and bring them back.

[Rewyn]

So inner light was removed in the data mine, Celestalon confirms its going back to Seal of Insight. So that means, in effect, we are going back to Seal of Insight as our 'tanking' seal. I was kind of excited to have 'inner light' and actually get to use Truth and Righteousness as a tank. Hell the idea of it was kind of liberating! I'm pretty bummed to see Inner Light was removed.

In fact, it just feels like nothing interesting is being done at all with Prot in WoD. We more or less will play the same way, just not as well as we do now. Hard to get excited over anything. Does someone else have some silver lining they can share with me? Shining Defender seems pretty boring, and most of our other items just seem to be helping with our rather poor aoe (100% conc, 5 target shield, increased wrath). No rotation changes, or additions, other than the obvious loss of haste from SoI.

The other concern I have is 3 weeks ago Celestalon says Holy Shield is "seriously undertuned", then says in recent tests it looks fine without any changes. He says a month + ago righteousness will be improved, yet there have been no touches to it so far (other than being weakened, but thats a number thing). We got the crazy seal change that was reversed, then we got Inner Light that was removed....

So I get the sense there is no clear vision/understanding of the spec at this point. Over dramatic of me?

[Deleted]

It's so bad , I don't even know what 'Seraphim' is :X. :X :X :X :X

I think it is some kind of seafood.

[Promdates]

I was kind of excited to have 'inner light' and actually get to use Truth and Righteousness as a tank. Hell the idea of it was kind of liberating! I'm pretty bummed to see Inner Light was removed.

It makes me wonder if they want us to seal swap at all. Truth gives a 15% ap buff for 20 seconds and Insight gives a 5% hp heal every 2s for 20s. Theoretically you could swap once every 20 seconds (or <15 if you want to keep up a 5 stack of Censure for "bonus" damage) and receive both buffs. That might be a bit much though and probably not worth it.

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the new weapon enchants have been datamined:

If you check wowhead, the haste one is listed as 100*10, reducing 10% every 2s. So it looks like it's going to be 1k haste and going down 100 every 2s.

[Rewyn]

It makes me wonder if they want us to seal swap at all. Truth gives a 15% ap buff for 20 seconds and Insight gives a 5% hp heal every 2s for 20s. Theoretically you could swap once every 20 seconds (or <15 if you want to keep up a 5 stack of Censure for "bonus" damage) and receive both buffs. That might be a bit much though and probably not worth it.

- - - Updated - - -



If you check wowhead, the haste one is listed as 100*10, reducing 10% every 2s. So it looks like it's going to be 1k haste and going down 100 every 2s.

@SealTwisting: The loss of HP from lost GCDS and its impact to damage, healing and mitigation is simply so much that for Blizzard to make those seals 'worth it' just does not seem realistic, to be honest. Lets say every 5 swaps = 3 HP, imagine the damage reduction from 3 seconds of the last SoTR, damage and the lost stack of bastion; does it seem worth it? Don't know. Hard to imagine it would be to be honest.

It simply does not fit in the playstyle, even if its slowed down with the lost of haste from SoI; we hit buttons, very quickly. Adding more GCD's as a 'tax' to maintain buffs seems awkward to implement.

[Deleted]

Heavy Handed causes the Butcher to attack the player closest to his current target with a copy of all of his melee attacks. These attacks can be mitigated and avoided as usual. If another player is not close enough, the second attack will trigger on the primary target.

Why am I already thinking people are at least going to try solo tanking this?

As long as you don't have any melee DPS i'm assuming it'll be possible, and then they'll either leave it be or hotfix it to kill a random target if it can't hit a second melee target. Your Rogues will probably get pissy if you get them 1shot :P

[Deleted]

Not to say we called them re-introducing saberlash mechanics, but we kinda called them re-introducing saberlash.

Sigh. Maybe if they'd incentivize bringing tanks rather than force us into bringing them, we could have interesting fight mechanics and not this garbage?

[Deleted]

Not to say we called them re-introducing saberlash mechanics, but we kinda called them re-introducing saberlash.

Sigh. Maybe if they'd incentivize bringing tanks rather than force us into bringing them, we could have interesting fight mechanics and not this garbage?

To be fair, it is a bit better than saberlash now with him important AM is. But still yeah. I never got the idea of enforcing two tanks. If a boss fight can be solo tanked, so what? Two tanks should be encouraged by boss design by having so much work or tanks to do that two is needed, not enforced.

It is just a silly as if they designed a fight that could easily be solo healed but put in a mechanic that wipes the raid if you got less than two healers.

[Deleted]

To be fair, it is a bit better than saberlash now with him important AM is. But still yeah. I never got the idea of enforcing two tanks. If a boss fight can be solo tanked, so what? Two tanks should be encouraged by boss design by having so much work or tanks to do that two is needed, not enforced.

It is just a silly as if they designed a fight that could easily be solo healed but put in a mechanic that wipes the raid if you got less than two healers.

Ah, yes, now if only they weren't also nerfing tank self-sustainability into the ground, maybe tanking might still be some shade of fun in WoD.

But no. They're nerfing our self-heals into the ground (they've admitted to this, for the record, although the exact culprit escapes me), to a degree where it looks like the only difference between a tank that uses AM perfectly and one that doesn't use it at all is how fast they die if the healers suck. Just wonderful. Can't wait to rely on healers for my continued well-being. It's gonna rock!

[Raeph]

If you check wowhead, the haste one is listed as 100*10, reducing 10% every 2s. So it looks like it's going to be 1k haste and going down 100 every 2s.

Just saw that. So that means the proc is about 12% on proc, losing 1.2% haste per tick. Still not bad..depending on the proc rate.