[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[anaxie]

Total ballbusters. I'm gonna give Bear a noogie at next Blizzcon.

[DingDongKing]

For Final Verdict to be anywhere near useful in its current iteration, they'd need to give it a pretty decent boost. That and Seraphim needs to be way cheaper. 5 Holy Power for 10 seconds is still pissing me off. I'd rather it be 1 Holy Power for 10 seconds along with a cooldown that changes according to how much Holy Power you've used.

[Vash The Stampede]

/Tinfoil hat on

Everyone here should understand the big picture, rather the little numbers. Numbers don't matter right now. Think like a corporation that likes money. Blizzard lost what I mostly assume are casuals. The game is overflowing with dps that has to wait long queue times for LFR. They're making gear interchangeable with specs, and removing raid utility like Devotion Aura that will be Holy only.

To me it seems that Blizzard wants to pigeon hole hybrids into healing or tanking roles again. Cause without any unique utility, we will be entirely reliant on our capability to dps. Don't think the pure classes are losing their utility. It's still too early to cry wolf, but I urge you to keep an eye out for this. WoD may have more in common with TBC then just it's world.

/Tinfoil hat off

[Smitus]

They should just put seals on a 10 second cooldown, but take them off the GCD

[Dremall]

From the wow insider interview. http://wow.joystiq.com/2014/04/05/te...alks-warlords/

There have been different amounts of patch notes released for different classes. Paladins have been complaining that they haven't got enough, rogues have been really happy that not much has changed. Is it safe to assume there's more to come? This is just step one?

There's definitely more coming. Like, for example, paladins had relatively few patch notes, and a lot of that is we were relatively happy with how things played out, at least for ret and prot, with the exception of a few things we can solve with tuning – changing numbers. So a lot of what you see in the patch notes now is what we call design changes, so the mechanics that we want to change so we can get to some design that we like.

There's still going to be a balance and tuning pass – several of those -- that come on later on, and we think ... I think it's fair to say that ret is not terribly strong on live now. I wouldn't say they're terrible or anything but they're a little on the weak side, and I think that the problems they have are not design problems, they're a little underpowered numbers-wise and we can solve that by tuning numbers.

So pretty much the best we can expect from Blizzard is number tweaking, perhaps an increase. Mechanically we're still going to be the same. Not sure if I should be disappointed, or relaxed that they're going to leave us alone.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I like it when all the good boys tell us to reroll if ret is weak.
Dogs can't compete with direwolves. Would you tell dogs to reroll, too?
Is it dog's fault if its pitted against direwolves?
Ret requires buffs, there's no denying it.

[rad586]

IMO with crit damage being toned down from 200% to 150%, crit rating will be dead last in stat priority for rets. So much for Blizzard wanting to make haste/crit/mastery equal.

[Lumineus]

That's only in PvP. Although I can't see taking crit over multistrike. Especially if it procs seals, which might even make it the top stat over haste, depending on how it scales per point of rating.

[rad586]

That's only in PvP. Although I can't see taking crit over multistrike. Especially if it procs seals, which might even make it the top stat over haste, depending on how it scales per point of rating.

Was it really only for PvP ? I don't remember them saying that was the change only for PvP.

Though it makes me wonder if our stat priority will heavily depend on level 100 talents (in their current version).

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Total ballbusters. I'm gonna give Bear a noogie at next Blizzcon.

And i might have to give you a wedgie, would be best for all of us if you don't wear that pink thong I gave you.

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For Final Verdict to be anywhere near useful in its current iteration, they'd need to give it a pretty decent boost. That and Seraphim needs to be way cheaper. 5 Holy Power for 10 seconds is still pissing me off. I'd rather it be 1 Holy Power for 10 seconds along with a cooldown that changes according to how much Holy Power you've used.

The problem with Final Verdict is that it has to bo strong enough to compete with other lvl 100 talents without being OP in pvp if coupled with Holy Avenger, yes it's possible but from experience it'll end up being mediocre.

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They should just put seals on a 10 second cooldown, but take them off the GCD

Not 100% sure how you mean that, 10sec CD on all seals if you change to another seal or 10sec cd on the seal you changed to?
If we're stuck in "wrong seal" for 10-11 sec (Seraphim duration) then that's kinda meh. Looking forward to how they'll make it playable if it makes it through beta.

[Maegor]

Thoughts on what could be best aoe talents?

[Monoroth]

Thoughts on what could be best aoe talents?

At this point Seraphim + HA for insane quick AoE burst or Empowered seals ( seal twisting) which will be usefull on long AoE fights with sustained AoE (e.g. Windlord in HoF). But once we get numbers we'll have to see if Seraphim + DP can outweight seal twisting on sustained AoE.

[rad586]

Thoughts on what could be best aoe talents?

Currently I would go with Divine Purpose, Light's Hammer and Empowered Seals for AoE.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Thoughts on what could be best aoe talents?

Depends on a lot still but Final Verdict is obviously a no go for aoe fights, note that just because a fight is "aoe" doesn't mean that you need 15 dpsers (or however many dps you'll need) have to do aoe to kill the boss.
Just for straight up sustained aoe dps I'm guessing DP + Seal dancing in some form but to be honest I expect a few talent's to change or just be replaced, I'm kinda surprised that Templar's Verdict isn't just changed to how Final Verdict is described as standard. Spending a talent to make a spell deal holy instead of physical damage is extremely simple/boring, ignore how good or bad the talent might end up and compare the gameplay gained from picking Seraphim or the seal dancing one...

Talents should be something unique right? Especially the max level ones, it would also be good if they looked at Execution Sentence as that's now just a "hit once a minute" ability (like Inquisition).

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At this point Seraphim + HA for insane quick AoE burst or Empowered seals ( seal twisting) which will be usefull on long AoE fights with sustained AoE (e.g. Windlord in HoF). But once we get numbers we'll have to see if Seraphim + DP can outweight seal twisting on sustained AoE.

I think Seraphim + Light's Hammer can be somewhat interesting if they just make Light's hammer follow you with a glyph or something, that's the major reason why we ore or less never used Light's Hammer throughout MoP. Mobs move and I'm kinda amazed that Blizzard didn't anticipate that problem early on... oh well let's hope Light's Hammer gets replaced with Consecration!

[Zabannith]

wowdb is updated, wings 20 sec duration.

Did anybody check the other cds in the game to see if they are all up to 20 secs? could still be a data error at this point, we wont know until we get a beta client and somebody with an invite to try it out for sure

[Sforza]

Its just me, or Seraphim seems to scream cd stack? (pvp wise)
Didnt blizz say they wanted to tone down cd stacking? Nvm heres your cd stacking cd so u can use.
Not that im complainig though, Cant wait to stack it in 3´s with Double jeopardy + WoG glyph + AW + HA + Trinkets.

[Maegor]

Its just me, or Seraphim seems to scream cd stack? (pvp wise)
Didnt blizz say they wanted to tone down cd stacking? Nvm heres your cd stacking cd so u can use it with AW + HA + Trinkets

100% cd stack, even Celestalon (I think it was him) said you should use to stack CDs since it is temporary readiness.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry I just do not like Seraphim or the Seals talents at all, they seem anything but straightforward talents.

I like final Verdict, TV now does more damage (particularly useful against high armour), It's a nice simple talent that gives TV the power that it deserves and makes that spell more intimidating to others.

With seals, I would never enjoy pressing a new seal every 20 sec for the sake of getting a buff (I don't mind inquisition tho) or Seraphim the really complicated talent that no one seems to really know if you cast it every 30 seconds or wait for cds.

[Dremall]

Not too keen on the seal twisting myself. From what I heard from some paladins who played back in Vanilla the seal judge seal judge sucked horribly then. I can only surmise ti will suck now.

Serraphim is just horrible.

FV is going to be the go to talent coupled with DP. Pretty much we're being forced to go back to the Cata version of ret through talents. Without reforging I wonder if we'll even be able to get close to the haste that we need to feel smooth.

[anaxie]

FV is particularly strong vs players bosses are around 30-35% armor but players dps ones get to around 40-45% mitigation in plate late into expansion holy paladins closer to 50% i THINK. Definetly a powerful talent pair with the HA pvp burst talent.

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Not too keen on the seal twisting myself. From what I heard from some paladins who played back in Vanilla the seal judge seal judge sucked horribly then. I can only surmise ti will suck now.

Serraphim is just horrible.

FV is going to be the go to talent coupled with DP. Pretty much we're being forced to go back to the Cata version of ret through talents. Without reforging I wonder if we'll even be able to get close to the haste that we need to feel smooth.

Wars get double crit chance on bloodthirst. Their giving agi classes baseline crit. Are wars getting the 1 sec GCD Entirely free?

I feel like we have reason enough to complain for 10-15% base melee haste on SoB to be functional with gemming / reforging removal if they are happy with ret NOW.

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that would give us raid buffed about 20% haste. MAYBE closer to 21% since I do believe the 5% melee haste raid buff is multiplicative it was in the past if I recall.

Exorcism needs to be added to sword of light scaling and art of war reworked as people have said. Personally I would prefer AoW didnt reset cd but gave a DP like buff that allows its use while its remaining cooldown ticks down. Kinda pointless if it resets its cd with 2-3 seconds left on it no?

Would make an Art of War proc worth more. Then just flesh Exorcism out. I really want it to actually be exciting to hit.