[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Smitus]

I've specced Light's Hammer (so has the other ret in my guild) for the stack and heal fights in MoP when we were in progress and our healers were undergeared. Most of all I think it's the low cd on Light's Hammer is what makes it a kinda good utility heal ability for encounters where you stack up.

I've only been main spec ret for progression for this tier (Holy before) and maybe I've just been spoiled by good healers but the only fight this tier I can think of that LH would be best would be Thok (using it on garrosh would be out of the question), but our healers were able to reach 30 stacks without much issue even on our first 25m thok kill so it never even crossed my mind. Maybe in 10m where healer options are much more limited I could see it coming into play more.

I mean as a mean's of comparison to use ele/enh shamans again, healing rain is a super strong, on-demand, low cooldown, doesn't require respeccing out of single target damage, heal from a hybrid dps. It just seems it would be much much more favorable to have shamans drop HR rather than having your ret's dropping LH.

[Bonkura]

I've specced Light's Hammer (so has the other ret in my guild) for the stack and heal fights in MoP when we were in progress and our healers were undergeared. Most of all I think it's the low cd on Light's Hammer is what makes it a kinda good utility heal ability for encounters where you stack up.

How much healing do you usually get from LH on a fight like Thok?

[Zabannith]

I'm not a fan of Divine Purpose outside of spin to win when stacked with our 4pc

that being said I think we could really use another finisher for single target , either in the form of a consumable debuff that makes our tv hit harder based on the hp we spend to apply that debuff, or a dot maybe ,

Id also still love to see another proc to track that requires some decision making , ala what I've suggested before with CS crits proccing 1 charge of HoW use

But alas this is probably wishful thinking.

On another note , what do you guys think they will do to our current abilities as we level up, they've stated they will make our current core skills change and evolve as we level from 90-100

[Smitus]

I'm not a fan of Divine Purpose outside of spin to win when stacked with our 4pc

I actually agree, DP being in the single target rotation feels really clunky

Id also still love to see another proc to track that requires some decision making

I agree but I think the proc should be not another button to hit (HoW) but an enhancement of a current spell.
For example if all our attacks had a chance to make Exo do double damage on the next use. This way we don't over ability bloat (keep the core abilities the same through expos) but whenever it procs our priority changes up requiring dynamic decision making.

On another note , what do you guys think they will do to our current abilities as we level up, they've stated they will make our current core skills change and evolve as we level from 90-100

I BELIEVE (don't quote me on this) they said that abilities will mainly scale numbers wise. Like @ lvl 95 our TV now hits 30% harder or whatever

[Kickbuttmario]

So which horde race would benefit the paladin the most? The tauren has increased hp and 2% crit bonus for heals and damage. Is the 2% crit bonus for heals and damage really a big deal when blood elf gets 1% crit and buff on their racial. I ask because honestly I am kinda interested in the new updated character appearances.

[Smitus]

So which horde race would benefit the paladin the most? The tauren has increased hp and 2% crit bonus for heals and damage. Is the 2% crit bonus for heals and damage really a big deal when blood elf gets 1% crit and buff on their racial. I ask because honestly I am kinda interested in the new updated character appearances.

It's impossible to know without having a full model of what ret pallies will be in WoD. We can only speculate and never actually know what the order of value is on racials until we can determine stat weights for the class as a whole

[Fredzilla]

Proccing HoW use or making exo do more damage or whatever sounds much more appealing than going back to DP. We've already tried that route and I don't wanna go back to it, even with better HP generation. Something that makes the rotation more interesting without making or breaking our dps based on how much it procs (and DP was never really "interesting" gameplay anyway. Followed the same rules we have for our rotation without it really. About as exciting as inq is (note: this is not me complaining about inq for all you people out there who rage about inq or about those raging about it)).

[Zabannith]

.
For example if all our attacks had a chance to make Exo do double damage on the next use. This way we don't over ability bloat (keep the core abilities the same through expos) but whenever it procs our priority changes up requiring dynamic decision making.

We don't have bloat right now we have tv cs judge exo and how ..if anything id say we could use 1 more finisher ....and besides my cs suggestion would not add another button to hit.. we would still have the same amount we use throughout the duration of a fight

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

How much healing do you usually get from LH on a fight like Thok?

Been months since I used it last but from what I can remember it averaged like 80k hps for the 15sec duration or whatever it was.
Obviously not amazing or anywhere close to what a healer can do but if you have 2 rets then that's a lot of healing considering it's just one gcd you sacrifice for it.
in raids with my ilvl it heals 13k per tick (non crit) so I guess just multiply that with the number of ppl it would hit (23 usually), but like mentioned I only did it when healers struggled or we dropped a healer to try to beat dps which made certain phases or mechanics tough to heal. Probably 1 or 2 fights each tier where it's been of any use really.

[Smitus]

We don't have bloat right now we have tv cs judge exo and how ..if anything id say we could use 1 more finisher ....and besides my cs suggestion would not add another button to hit.. we would still have the same amount we use throughout the duration of a fight

I guess my qualms with CS having a chance to give us a HoW use is that
a) during CD's (assuming SW is left untouched) it would be worthless
b) sub 20% it would be worthless
c) if we are not at 5hp HoW is always the top priority in our rotation, so the proc would always be used instantly outside of situations described in a and b, in which case it wouldn't be useful at all

Maybe if the proc also reset the cooldown of HoW, but at this point its a very strong proc that could add a good amount of "RNG" in our rotation. And this change on really addresses my b point and not a/c.

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Been months since I used it last but from what I can remember it averaged like 80k hps for the 15sec duration or whatever it was.
Obviously not amazing or anywhere close to what a healer can do but if you have 2 rets then that's a lot of healing considering it's just one gcd you sacrifice for it.
in raids with my ilvl it heals 13k per tick (non crit) so I guess just multiply that with the number of ppl it would hit (23 usually), but like mentioned I only did it when healers struggled or we dropped a healer to try to beat dps which made certain phases or mechanics tough to heal. Probably 1 or 2 fights each tier where it's been of any use really.

It would not be 13k*23 because LH has a target "cap" of 6 or 8? (I forget which)
it would be 13k*(6/23)

[Reghame]

i would like to see something happen with crit, i long for the stat to be worth something outside of being your hits are now really big!
maybe they could add in something like your TV crits allow you to cast hammer of wrath regardless of health.
as far as the topic on exorcism is not that the proc and spell itself is bad, but that the spell scales SOOOOOOOO bad. i bet not one of you would dislike exorcism if it hit hard during the proc like it use to.

id also like to see Inq stay, but maybe add more than one finisher for pure damage, maybe another finish that has a cooldown? or a finisher that does more damage after TV? so many possibilitys that will likely never happen due to blizzard wanting to squish spell bloat :/ one can dream that we just end up with a somewhat appeasing play style and some viability in mythic raiding.

As for the level 100 talents, im honeslty somewhat upset that seal of faith went over final verdict. seal of faith is an example of a good talent, it changes your play style and how you approach each fight, while final verdict could for all purposes, just be what the spell SHOULD be. i also like how the seal twisting talent works as well( forgetting the name, oh well!) i would just like the notable ones for righteousness and truth change oh so slightly, maybe make truth judgement increase ap by 5%, stacking 5 times for 30 seconds, and make righteousness judgement increase your haste by 5%, stacking 5 times for 30 seconds. just a thought, might be too difficult to keep track of both, while counting in the GCD use of seal twisting but sounded cool in my head, so why not.

last note id like to add before your heads explode with the giant wall of text would be on the level 90 talents, make them scale with SOMETHING other than just spellpower, like make the GCD scale off melee haste if ret or prot, make them give holy power, something at all i dont care. as of now i feel like they are just the press this button and forget till off CD, i hate talents and spells like that. it halts your play style of spells working off one another just to do a press this button so it can make you do damage sort of thing.

hope i didn't explode your head when you hit the text wall. long live rets!

[Zabannith]

I guess my qualms with CS having a chance to give us a HoW use is that
a) during CD's (assuming SW is left untouched) it would be worthless
b) sub 20% it would be worthless
c) if we are not at 5hp HoW is always the top priority in our rotation, so the proc would always be used instantly outside of situations described in a and b, in which case it wouldn't be useful at all

Maybe if the proc also reset the cooldown of HoW, but at this point its a very strong proc that could add a good amount of "RNG" in our rotation. And this change on really addresses my b point and not a/c.

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It would not be 13k*23 because LH has a target "cap" of 6 or 8? (I forget which)
it would be 13k*(6/23)

SW would obviously need a rework if this proc (fat chance) were ever implemented

[Reghame]

i feel like SW is already in the shop for a rework considering guardian was taken away. that entire tier of talents might not even exist anymore, and it might even be a good change if they did change SW, its very nature makes it hard to have one of our iconic retri abilities to work anywhere outside of the talent and not having it could open up room for big change.

[Jackielope]

So which horde race would benefit the paladin the most? The tauren has increased hp and 2% crit bonus for heals and damage. Is the 2% crit bonus for heals and damage really a big deal when blood elf gets 1% crit and buff on their racial. I ask because honestly I am kinda interested in the new updated character appearances.

If there were guaranteed crit mechanics for us like with ele shamans, the extra crit damage might come out ahead of the crit%. However, as of our current implementation where that's not the case, 2% crit damage is worse than 1% extra crit until the crit% itself is 50% or higher. Given that belfs will also be getting extra HoPo from Arcane Torrent, belfs will almost certainly be the best horde races for paladins.

[Vash The Stampede]

It's not all about healing yourself you know. 3 stack selfless healer on someone else, especially if you have crusade up from killing someone? Even in bgs thats a ridiculous heal.

Players aren't stupid. If they know Paladins can heal other players better then they heal themselves, then you sit the Ret Paladin. And you know what, they ALWAYS SIT THE RET PALADIN. What good does my off healing do when I can't stay alive with my own healing? This is why Ret Paladins need tools like Argent Defender and not another heal. This wouldn't be a problem if healing did equal amounts to everyone, but self preservation is very important when it feels like someone put a bullseye on your back, and plate armor seems to be made out of paper.

There are a lot of situations where I enter Arena, and before I do anything I'm already 50% of my health. That's before I even have any Holy Power. BTW, that's why some players hate Inquisition. It makes up a lot of your damage, and you have to choose between healing or putting up a buff. Lots of situations where I can't, cause staying alive is better then dying, but without Inquisition I can't produce pressure. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

Battle Fatigue works in every PvP-Battle - even in world PvP.

I can't believe I overlooked that. Really, it effects outside of organized PvP? No wonder why my healing was so bad.

[Kickbuttmario]

If there were guaranteed crit mechanics for us like with ele shamans, the extra crit damage might come out ahead of the crit%. However, as of our current implementation where that's not the case, 2% crit damage is worse than 1% extra crit until the crit% itself is 50% or higher. Given that belfs will also be getting extra HoPo from Arcane Torrent, belfs will almost certainly be the best horde races for paladins.

Hmm and I guess for tanking, tauren will be number 1. Damn it, we need to see what damage and crit is going to be like in WoD otherwise its obvious which racials are best and which are just there to appease. I hate when the game makes us ponder which racial is best for the class, it should be the race/lore/appearance that we should be interested in.

[Natureseer]

I think HotR not requiring a melee range target and being more like FoK is at the top of my wish list. pleaseeeeee

[Bonkura]

I think HotR not requiring a melee range target and being more like FoK is at the top of my wish list. pleaseeeeee

Same. It's frustrating in PvE when trying to AoE and your target isn't standing still or in PvP when you don't have anything to interrupt flag caps or get people out of stealth.

[Natureseer]

Same. It's frustrating in PvE when trying to AoE and your target isn't standing still or in PvP when you don't have anything to interrupt flag caps or get people out of stealth.

Yep, and for everyone who remembers the AFK that was Hide! during Lei Shi lol

[Smitus]

I hate when the game makes us ponder which racial is best for the class, it should be the race/lore/appearance that we should be interested in.

I think this is something most people would agree with and blizzard wants to make happen but it will never ever ever be reality as long as racials exist that effect dps/healing/tanking in anyway at all