I like Light's Hammer, in terms of looks it is awesome. It just isn't tuned high enough to be worth taking in most situations.
One thing I'm seriously hoping for is getting our talents balanced so we have more viable options. I feel like we have less viable choices than before the talent revamp which makes no sense. And Blizzard essentially ignored adjusting talents for Ret all expansion. They talked about making things like Sacred Shield better for Ret, But ended up only changing things for Holy Paladins... Like what?
A lot of our talents as Ret shouldn't even really be talents in the first place. Like our movement tier, we use to have Pursuit of Justice and Long Arm of The Law. Now we have to choose between them. And for Ret Long Arm is the obvious choice due to using judgment so often. Speed of Light has way to long of a Cd for no reason. It should be more like 25 - 30 seconds for Ret, not 45.
Last edited by nyc81991; 2014-05-24 at 08:42 AM.
Heh, Dakeshii is bombarding Celestalon with his tweets Yet he still fails to see the problem with utility shared betwean all 3 specs.
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...51353805701120
Looking for a working online signature generator .....
How can he really be balancing this game if he doesn't understand why it's important to not share all utility with other specs... This is a huge problem / reason why Ret isn't useful in rated PvP. You are much better off taking a Holy Paladin for the utility and a Warrior for dps.
I think it's really straight forward. Number's are something that we don't need to worry about right now. It's how Retribution is going to play / function in WoD. If they don't make our 4 set baseline our rotation is going to be extremely boring. If they think that Ret sharing the same utility as Holy and Prot has no effect that is an issue. I've said it many times, but Retribution Aura makes the most sense for Ret utility. Have it be passive with an active cd effect and that easily makes us bring something that can help the raid and isn't brought by Holy or Prot.
If they do those things I feel that Ret will be great as long as numbers are tuned well. Which isn't something to worry about until mid beta.
I'd agree with you about scaling--but, in the actual game, guilds aren't always rational. I already have friends who are being told most if not all melee will sit for progression for mythic, for example (due to weapon damage adjustment). To put it another way, as WoD design is right now, there is no reason to bring a ret you wouldn't already (assuming we fall under the same spot in the dps pecking order) and signs that, perhaps, we may not end up in as good of a place.
Best of luck regarding the utility discussion with Celestalon though. Maybe you can also get him to think about whether our rotational abilities are really that interesting?
Honestly at this point I think Celestalon is just a face man for blizzard with no real power when it comes to design choices.. I think that he's just a PR man there to try and keep the masses from rioting, I think theres somebody else behind scenes who has the real power when it comes to design choices and they have a vision for ret and paladin class as a whole and it differs very very much from what we would like to see ret become.
New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Retribution Paladin into a Warrior and actually be able to dps worth a damn.
This is the most painful thing I've ever read about Ret. Not only are almost all of those things pretty useless as utility but some are exclusive talents and most of them are useless. He lists them off as if they are all amazing things. He makes it seem like Light's Hammer is a Bladestorm and Tranquility on an instant cast spell with a short cooldown. I love the spell and wish it was good but damn that is painful to read.
They took away Holy's wings and Illumination and rolled their effects into Wings...so why can't we have it too? Why must the same spell be different for both specs?
Paladin Bash has spoken.
I just think Blizzard doesn't understand things from the perspective of a Ret Paladin. Our best chance is tweeting them with serious and realistic suggestions.
That's why Retribution Aura makes the most sense. Passively it could do X damage to attackers and they could easily add an active cd that increases the damage done by Retribution Aura by X%. This gives Ret unique theme based raid / group utility. It also helps in PvP where Ret is always trained.
I'm more afraid of our rotation if we don't get our Divine Storm proc baseline. Without Inquisition our rotation would literally be spamming the same few buttons over and over.
Current raid mechanics require raid cooldowns. Rogues, DK, Warrior, Monk and Shaman gets that. Only melee without it will be ret and feral. Feels like he thinks our single target raid utility is enough to compensate us, but how many raid mechanics has required this in mist? Lei Shi, Zor'lok and Thok is the only once i can remember it being "required" to have a paladin for our hands, but even then it was mostly prot or holy paladins doing it. Zor'lok you could even have a holy paladin heal at the echo. They need to decide if its going to be healers and tanks bringing raid cooldowns or if dps gets it aswell, if we do get it aswell everyone needs to have one or those classes will be sat for bosses that require raid cooldowns (look at mages in siege). I dont mind if noone gets it, but you cant leave out a few specs like they are doing atm.
Ofc, this only comes into play if they dont drasticly change the way raid mechanics work in that you wont be needing a raid cooldown for hard hitting raid wide abilties like Whirl or Garrosh. (yeah not gonna happen)
Well, that isn't true either. There's plenty of "use" for Hand of Protection and Hand of Sacrifice and even Hand of Purity in some cases, but because they're single-target, it's not as noticeable unless the effect it gives (one tank Horridon, for example) is overpowered.
As strong as Protection is on Horridon and Purity is on Troll Council, that's how weak they are on Protectors. Because in a fight where a phys. DoT lasts for ages and isn't actually removed by HoP (y hlo thar DB Saurfang), relief from it for a few seconds isn't going to do much of anything unless the encounter is so tightly tuned that it's nearly impossible to heal in appropriate gear.
This also comes back to single-target healing being super-efficient, and all our hands being "prevent or reduce single target damage." So yay, I got three different keybinds for different flavors of Power Word: Shield with cooldowns that range from "long" to "excessive."
Last edited by Lumineus; 2014-05-24 at 02:46 PM.
OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."
And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"
Celestalon is a fucking idiot
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You don't get what hes saying. ITS NOT NEEDED. the one target you would sac doesn't need it. The RAID needs damage reduction. Not one single person this is espeically true in SoO. If they plan us to use all this shit on CD then we should be tuned using it in mind as in.
If our "hands" are our showcased utility then they need to fucking expand upon them. Make Hand of Protection block Magic or Physical. Glyph that shit.
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Or in the case of ret we literally COULD be the first support class in WoW history. Ret specific. Hands have no Cooldown but the same hand cannot be placed on the target for 30 sec or something.
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Pretty much means you could hand multiple people. This would make ret a dps class or a highly skill based DPS/Support Hybrid.
Main problem of this *ton* utilities is that every other class can same, but better. Need Sacred Shield - take disc, Lay on Hands - MW monk, Hand of Sacrifice - warriror/rdru/disc, Hand of Freedom - shaman, Light's Hammer - what do healers in your raid? As result paladins (not only ret) have many "useless" spells (compared to other classes), low output dps/heal (because this spells) and totaly sucks, because Divine Shield is (surprise, surprise) raid utility
Cept hundreds of effects ret could soak go through Divine shield meanwhile. Greater Invis / Warlocks / shadow priests eat high damage effects.
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each new boss is like WILL IT FLOAT?!?! for ret cept in our case its CAN IT SOAK CAN I BUBBLE THE DEBUFF. More often then not it's LOLNOPE.
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sha of fear Hand of Purity
overall the ret toolkit is terrible especially with things like Forberance existing limiting hands use. As you said Dakeshi-san they need to do MORE with the abilitiys Hand of Sac absolve... still too many "magic" effects it doesn't remove. Personally being single target and having a CD it should fucking wipe the target clean period.
BOOM ret ultilty.
Secondly ret only glyph Hand of protection is now magic protection useful for melee dps / tanks / soaking a boss debuff. WOW amazing we just created ret utility!
it's shit like this.
OR HOW ABOUT FREEDOM REMOVES SNARES AND IS A MOVE SPEED INCREASE. OH MY GOD /GASP
Suddenly you see these 3 hands used 500% more outside PvP.
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its silly. Okay hands are our ultilty whatever. FUCKING EXPAND UPON THEM
Still, Hands are not Ret exclusive. If our passive "Absolve" would expand upon the hands though, leaving Prot/Holy with the normal version, that could work.