So, the new character models suffer from "Same-face" as the Pandaren do, too...

[-Superman-]

Won´t most of us only see the chars from behind 99.9% of the time.

Very solid point. However, as an RPer, I tend to swing the camera when speaking with others. Let's me gain a larger overview. But for the most part, you are correct.

[Drilnos]

Is "scope" the new word of the forums? Like strawman and what was the other one.. oh.. cannon.

Ughhhh.

And I don't know about you but most of the faces on the old models look different to me. From the eyes to the shading on the face, to the noses.

I have a feeling one of the issues they're having creating same face is the fact that they have to give all of the models those huge round doll eyes to give them more options for animations... and if you give everyone the same eyes they're going to look a lot more similar.

Canon. And no, scope and scope/feature creep are just software development terms which I am all too familiar with.

[Kubiszot]

Since Blizzcon they keep telling that when You log to WoD your new char will be same as old but with better textures, animations and features... And now after all this work they made with new models You think that one race will have same face model? This forum surprises me every day...

[Paulosio]

Way to jump on him for nothing, the OP is just expressing his concern for a new feature in the game. Last time i checked this is the WoW GENERAL discussion forums.

Edit, i guess this should be moved to the WoD section

He's complaining about something that isn't even finished. Just like all the comments on the Beta vids complained about all the bosses using the old models... Because they aren't finished. If it goes live and they all have the same face then he has a point. Until then he doesn't.

[Instructor Soki]

He's complaining about something that isn't even finished. Just like all the comments on the Beta vids complained about all the bosses using the old models... Because they aren't finished. If it goes live and they all have the same face then he has a point. Until then he doesn't.

It's better to bring up concerns early rather than them going through all the work and finishing them up; then realize that the players actually really, really care that there's only 1 face for their characters now, rather than 4-8.

[inboundpaper]

Aren't like all the current faces just texture swaps anyways?

[Deleted]

Aren't like all the current faces just texture swaps anyways?

Yes, yes they are.

[Amnaught]

Well, I mean, the Goblins are fine. Why could they not take that route, exactly?

[snuzzle]

Well, I mean, the Goblins are fine. Why could they not take that route, exactly?

Exactly. Anyone saying this was inevitable because of the detail is forgetting goblins. Sure, goblins aren't exactly as detailed as pandaren, but they look quite varied, especially the females. Even male worgen look varied enough. Yet now, suddenly, we can't? Why not?

Aren't like all the current faces just texture swaps anyways?

And everyone here knows that. But the point is, before, the texture swaps were distinct enough that it made the faces look more varied.

[Yig]

Very solid point. However, as an RPer, I tend to swing the camera when speaking with others. Let's me gain a larger overview. But for the most part, you are correct.

Not a solid point at all, especially not "very". Even if we're not a majority, I play this game primarily for it's atmosphere and visuals, and when I'm not down seeing the world in my character's perspective as the game was designed and intended to allow from it's inception or zoomed out creating what appears to be a living fantasy painting of a lone wanderer on the planes or mountain paths, or even if I am some power gamer playing a glorifed slot machine loitering in a game genre that wasn't intended for me with the majority of it's features and developer efforts being ignored I still see the facial expressions of the NPCs I'm fighting, which they will all have now if they belong to the updated races. The first time I killed a goblin was quite delightful in Cataclysm watching his facial expressions and overly dramatic gestures.

You're trying to be diplomatic, and it's appreciated.

It's better to bring up concerns early rather than them going through all the work and finishing them up; then realize that the players actually really, really care that there's only 1 face for their characters now, rather than 4-8.

While people are correct in voicing feedback while it still makes a difference, complaining about something like this before beta even begins looking at every expansion's precedent before now and complaining or offering criticism at this point beyond "I hope that's going to be changed" is just hyperbolic. And most importantly, we've now made more than enough noise about this issue that anything further here is just self aggrandizing. It's saturating the forums, you can all lose the "innocent and concerned consumer" act.

The next Artcraft already has been announced with the topic specifically going to be addressing this issue and that the large amount of our concerns are specifically noted and heard, whether this Artcraft is an explanation for why we won't get the extremely refined details we want for each face or whether it's explaining that they have more things they are working on and have planned for adding later in the development cycle that is beta, its been noted. So you're just gyrating your hips in an echo chamber at this point pitchfork and torch at the ready.

Things like this always change drastically in beta, refined graphical FX and features are tweaked extensively in every beta we've had. Acting like "we've got to act now before it's too late and you apologists are stifling our freedom" is romantic and all, but I guess you need your catharsis somewhere. In the mean time, beyond sharing opinions acting like an alarmist is just annoying. So expect to be treated like annoying things get treated when you act annoying.

[snuzzle]

While people are correct in voicing feedback while it still makes a difference, complaining about something like this before beta even begins looking at every expansion's precedent before now and complaining or offering criticism at this point beyond "I hope that's going to be changed" is just hyperbolic. And most importantly, we've now made more than enough noise about this issue that anything further here is just self aggrandizing. It's saturating the forums, you can all lose the "innocent and concerned consumer" act.

The next Artcraft already has been announced with the topic specifically going to be addressing this issue and that the large amount of our concerns are specifically noted and heard, whether this Artcraft is an explanation for why we won't get the extremely refined details we want for each face or whether it's explaining that they have more things they are working on and have planned for adding later in the development cycle that is beta, its been noted. So you're just gyrating your hips in an echo chamber at this point pitchfork and torch at the ready.

Things like this always change drastically in beta, refined graphical FX and features are tweaked extensively in every beta we've had. Acting like "we've got to act now before it's too late and you apologists are stifling our freedom" is romantic and all, but I guess you need your catharsis somewhere. In the mean time, beyond sharing opinions acting like an alarmist is just annoying. So expect to be treated like annoying things get treated when you act annoying.

I'm not sure what your point is by posting the worgen. You seem to be arguing that discussion at this point is meaningless, but yet people complained that worgen looked too soft and cuddly, and Blizzard agreed and changed them.

People are allowed to complain. You're allowed to think it's pointless, silly, or overreacting. That's the thing about opinions, they're all different...

[Arrowstormen]

I'm not sure what your point is by posting the worgen. You seem to be arguing that discussion at this point is meaningless, but yet people complained that worgen looked too soft and cuddly, and Blizzard agreed and changed them.

People are allowed to complain. You're allowed to think it's pointless, silly, or overreacting. That's the thing about opinions, they're all different...

What you apparently missed is that Blizzard has noted it, so before the Artcraft post, this is pointless.

[snuzzle]

What you apparently missed is that Blizzard has noted it, so before the Artcraft post, this is pointless.

I noticed it. Actually the tweet is what led me to this thread (linked on MMO-C's front page). However, why does that mean further feedback is pointless? We haven't read the Artcraft yet. We don't know what they're going to say or how they're going to address it. Why can we not continue to provide feedback until that point?

I've been through this song and dance before. We were told "too late!" with female worgen. We were told "we're not changing a damned thing because worgen!" with female pandaren. I'm going to provide feedback early and often because I do not want to see the same thing happen with my beloved main.

[shoc]

What you apparently missed is that Blizzard has noted it, so before the Artcraft post, this is pointless.

This. Complaining about same face before Blizzard even gets the chance to address same face is like complaining that your roommate takes smelly shits before he even uses the bathroom. Judging the game a good 6 months before its release, before the game is even in Beta, and complaining about a graphical feature is absurd, and they haven't even explained to us what their plans are to avoid same face are.

[Deleted]

I noticed it. Actually the tweet is what led me to this thread (linked on MMO-C's front page). However, why does that mean further feedback is pointless? We haven't read the Artcraft yet. We don't know what they're going to say or how they're going to address it. Why can we not continue to provide feedback until that point?

Because it's not further feedback, it's the same feedback that you've already been giving. There is nothing new to say at this point. All it does is fill the forums with pointless complaints. If you have some brand new insight into the sameface issue (hint: you don't) there is no point in saying anything more until the artcraft comes out.

[snuzzle]

Because it's not further feedback, it's the same feedback that you've already been giving. There is nothing new to say at this point. All it does is fill the forums with pointless complaints. If you have some brand new insight into the sameface issue (hint: you don't) there is no point in saying anything more until the artcraft comes out.

I'm going to assume that by "you" you mean a "general you" because I just hopped into this thread last night and have made all of three posts.

But another voice saying "Yes, this concerns me" or "No, this doesn't bother me" is always useful, even if it's not new insight. Because it shows how another person feels about the issue, and I'd hope that Blizzard cares about what people think. If everyone said "I don't have anything new to say about Real ID on the forums" it wouldn't have blown up and made Blizz back down like it did and they did.

[Yig]

Cata released - Worgen females look the same - "FFS its beta! Chill let them finish!!"
MOP released - Pandaren look the same - "FFS its beta! Chill let them finish!!"
WOD in development - ALL faces look the same - "FFS it's not even beta! Chill let them finish!!"

How about no and we actually voice our opinions without assuming everything will be sorted out.

If you want this changed voice your opinion NOW. Blizzard wants to hear critical feedback.

The thing is PLENTY of people bitched and offered good criticism on these issues then. This "we must act now" thing is just romanticized thinking. Our concerns are already overwhelming regarding this issue feedback wise and they've been noted by the lead art team dev already. I'm not saying to be silent, but this "let's rally everyone" attitude is not really going to change anything barring something on par with the Real ID backlash or the Cata launch heroic difficulty backlash. And too many people in the community do not care for that to be possible IMO.

[Chain Chungus]

They just need to make multiple ears (or other distinguishing feature by race, like tusks) and noses just like they did for Goblins. It really is the missing piece to all this.

[Yig]

Before TBC went into Beta - "Draenei and Blood Elves look like shit!" - Blizz didn't care
Before Cata went into Beta - "Worgen and Goblins look like shit!" - Blizz didn't care
Before Pandas went into Beta - "Pandas are fat, stupid, and look like shit!" - Blizz didn't care

Wanna wager if they will care or not after redoing most of the races? I bet I'll win

What? First, Blizzard is free to disagree and not be called apathetic. Second, there was never any backlash about so and so looking like shit as you frame here. Blood Elves were complained about for being too frail and late in beta they were beefed up, it's unknown if the community did that as it was a divided issue. I don't recall anyone saying the Draenei looked like shit, until after they came out and you start seeing the people who don't like them calling the males fat for having exaggerated heroic cartoon musculature that is anything but fat.

I think Pandaren and Goblin are the only race that were released pretty much as they were originally debuted. THough Goblins lost some facial options.
But who the hell said Goblins looked like shit? That's been extremely rare in my anecdotal experience.

[Deleted]

I'm going to assume that by "you" you mean a "general you" because I just hopped into this thread last night and have made all of three posts.

But another voice saying "Yes, this concerns me" or "No, this doesn't bother me" is always useful, even if it's not new insight. Because it shows how another person feels about the issue, and I'd hope that Blizzard cares about what people think. If everyone said "I don't have anything new to say about Real ID on the forums" it wouldn't have blown up and made Blizz back down like it did and they did.

At this point? No, it's not useful. If Blizzard had yet to acknowledge the issue then sure, pile on the complaints I guess. But they have acknowledged the issue. You've reached the amount of people necessary to get Blizzard's attention so further contribution is to be quite frank pointless. It would be like continuing to complain about Real ID after Blizzard announced they weren't going to go through with it, to continue with your metaphor.

So please, just wait for the artcraft unless you actually have anything new to say.