The stat squish is more comparable to early wrath leveling at 90.

[Chickat]

Im rather confused. The dps stats indicate dps around will be at or around level 75. Tank health however is around ToC levels. Perhaps we will almost hit cata levels of stats? Idk anymore lol, I think its best to wait until beta.

[TheWindWalker]

Im rather confused. The dps stats indicate dps around will be at or around level 75. Tank health however is around ToC levels. Perhaps we will almost hit cata levels of stats? Idk anymore lol, I think its best to wait until beta.

Well yeah, Watcher and Celestalon explained it quite a bit. HP is doubled for PVP's sake but damage will still be relatively low while monster/boss damage will be high. So basically they just changed the typical HP/Damage ratio we're comfortable with so we're beefier but don't hit for our own HP in damage. (For cereal, though, has anyone noticed a crit from Rising Sun Kick does more than Touch of Death often enough to just ignore that button?)

[Senka]

The items you see on this character are probably the same kind of items a current character boosted to 80 gets, which are the most base of items. I think those level 80 items are even less powerful than the first quest rewards in Hyjal, but the point is just to give them a fighting chance.

This makes it really difficult to guess at things, but my estimate is that at Level 100 in full standard dungeon gear for a non-tank: Health will be at early-Cataclysm levels, or nearly that, Damage Taken will be at 3.1 levels, Damage Done will be at 3.1-3.2 levels, closer to 3.2. What makes it really hard to guess how it moves on from there is that we never had a "Patch 3.5" or "Patch 4.4", but WoD will keep moving on to what numbers would likely have been in those patches if the trend continued.

[Krazzorx]

Im rather confused. The dps stats indicate dps around will be at or around level 75. Tank health however is around ToC levels. Perhaps we will almost hit cata levels of stats? Idk anymore lol, I think its best to wait until beta.

essentially doubling (post-squish) player health.

From the health blog. That answer your question?

[Chickat]

Well yeah, Watcher and Celestalon explained it quite a bit. HP is doubled for PVP's sake but damage will still be relatively low while monster/boss damage will be high. So basically they just changed the typical HP/Damage ratio we're comfortable with so we're beefier but don't hit for our own HP in damage. (For cereal, though, has anyone noticed a crit from Rising Sun Kick does more than Touch of Death often enough to just ignore that button?)

And i took that into account. The tank in some wod videos have like 65k hp at 90. I divided that by half which is the hp increase. The health is still not on par with the damage wed expect. I guess its bloated somewhat still because of the cata hp increase on top of the WoD hp increase? I believe Cata increased hp by some amount right? So maybe if we take that off it would be around 25k. Still seems a bit high for a 75 tank though.

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essentially doubling (post-squish) player health.

From the health blog. That answer your question?

Yes a tank had 65k hp at 90. Half of that is 32.5k Still too much for the level of dps stats we have.

[blackblade]

This thread may seem to make no sense to some people, and if you are one of those people, please ignore it. This thread is for the people that are complaining that Blizzard didn't squish enough, and thinking we are going to have Cata-higher than cata stats at 100. Like Dragon Soul gear in the first tier.

TLDR: Blizzard squished a bit lower then most people think. Expect Tier 17 gear to have stats like Late Wrath raid gear/early cata questing gear

People are thinking that just because a dps has 40+k hp that our dps will be around early cataclysm leveling dps. If you compare gear from this video below. You will see that besides the stamina, "Which they are messing with again in Wod" is around a 72-75 wrath green peice at 90.

So,if the dps stats stay at around the same value, you can probably expect Purples in tier 17 to be at around Deepholme questing gear.
I expect we will have around 5-10k dps in the first tier of WoD. Which is a decent bit under Cataclysm. Since they squished this much, I think we can expect to wait 3 expansions before we see another squish.



The chest peice at 1:01 in the video has 75 stamina, 50 agility, and 66 secondary stats.

This has 54 stamina, 55 agility, and 38 secondary stats. Not a perfect match I know, but if everything we know in the game today stays similar, they squishes further down then people though.

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I've been saying this since blizzcon.

SOO gear is a hair above SWP Gear.

[Chickat]

I've been saying this since blizzcon.

SOO gear is a hair above SWP Gear.

Not entirely true. The bow in the video is much worse then this bow from sunwell. http://www.wowhead.com/item=34196

Who knows what its going to be like. Guess we will have to wait.

I fail at reading. I read that as the gear in the video, not SoO gear. You are probably right.

[-aiko-]

Squish is not a problem, and ilvl inflation is not a problem.. but everything you guys would do to ´fix´ the non-problems would make the game stupid.

Less ilevels between tiers wouldn't make the game stupid, imo, but I don't think this is as big as deal as you think I do. I just sincerely doubt that their long-term goal is to 'reset' gear every 2-3 expansions. That makes no sense. They've all but admitted that they didn't want the scaling to get out of control. That means it is a mistake, and that is all that I'm saying really. They did not intend for this and keeping the current system and 'resetting' every few expansions is not what I'd call a solid plan.

[Deleted]

Let's not all assume that the squish is a permanent solution.

What the squish does, is that it squishes the jumps in previous expansion content, especially the Wotlk > Cata jump and the Cata > Mists jump. We'll still see a relatively large jump up between lvl 90 and 100 because there's still the aspect of relevant content and feeling stronger.

My theory is that Blizzard will use the squish at every (other?) expansion to keep things in line, whilst still making the current expansion gear signifigantly stronger than the last.

In 5-6 years, two expansions from now, we might see WoD gear being squished.

[-aiko-]

My theory is that Blizzard will use the squish at every (other?) expansion to keep things in line, whilst still making the current expansion gear signifigantly stronger than the last.

They can't just keep squishing though, because every time they squish it is affecting the old content before it. What would make more sense is just to keep even scaling as we progress further. Numbers will get crazy again, without a doubt, but at least this time it will be after more expansions than before.

[Rizendragon]

And i took that into account. The tank in some wod videos have like 65k hp at 90. I divided that by half which is the hp increase. The health is still not on par with the damage wed expect. I guess its bloated somewhat still because of the cata hp increase on top of the WoD hp increase? I believe Cata increased hp by some amount right? So maybe if we take that off it would be around 25k. Still seems a bit high for a 75 tank though.

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Yes a tank had 65k hp at 90. Half of that is 32.5k Still too much for the level of dps stats we have.

Make sure you're checking those videos for SoW/HWS. Without the 35% increses health was 45k-55k (Druids and Dks were the top end here). I'm expecting the 30k-45k health with 1.5k DPS. That might make it nice for PvP.

[Chickat]

Make sure you're checking those videos for SoW/HWS. Without the 35% increses health was 45k-55k (Druids and Dks were the top end here). I'm expecting the 30k-45k health with 1.5k DPS. That might make it nice for PvP.

Health at 100 will probably be 90-120k for a dps. Ulduar level dps.

[Azrile]

Less ilevels between tiers wouldn't make the game stupid, imo, but I don't think this is as big as deal as you think I do. I just sincerely doubt that their long-term goal is to 'reset' gear every 2-3 expansions. That makes no sense. They've all but admitted that they didn't want the scaling to get out of control. That means it is a mistake, and that is all that I'm saying really. They did not intend for this and keeping the current system and 'resetting' every few expansions is not what I'd call a solid plan.

It is unavoidable. In WoD they are going to have 4 difficulties for each raid tier, they are going to have 3 raid tiers at least. Every step is going to give noticeable increases in stats. Quest reward gear from the last zones of leveling are going to be significantly higher than what most LFR raiders have now.

I think we are just arguing semantics about the word ´mistake´. Gear inflation is a natural problem that occurs in a game like wow with raid gears and multiple difficulties per tier. It is going to happen, and it will need to be fixed. But that doesn´t mean it was a mistake. I have to change the oil in my car every year, it is a side effect of me driving my car, it doesn´t mean I drove wrong.

Also, don´t quote people without quoting them. ´ they all but admitted´.. seems like a very trollish way to put words in someone else´s mouth. I think what they said was that during WOTLK, they really wanted to add hard modes, but before the expansion they hadn´t planned on them, so the gear inflation was pretty big. But again, that isn´t making a mistake, since adding hard modes was a great addition to the game.

How do you think this will not happen again? You want LFR to drop the same ilvl gear as mythic mode? You want your 6.0 raid gear to be able to kill the 6.5 raid bosses? Any solution you give to ´fix the need for item squish´ is going to cause way more problems in the game than doing an item squish every few expansions.

[Chickat]

According to bellulargaming, one of the devs said that health will be about 8% what it is now, and damage 4% of what it is now post squish. That means that hardcore top raiders will be going 16k down from 400k, and the average person doing 200k in flex/normal gear in a raid will be at 8k. A fresh 90 will be at like 1500-2500 dps freshly dinged at 90. Those are wrath numbers. So i suppose a fresh 100 will do 15-20 dps. Slightly higher then cata. Ouch. Maybe they didn't squish enough. Oh well, that still buys them 2 expansions before they have to squish again.



Go to 6:55 to hear the comment.

[TheWindWalker]

Go to 6:55 to hear the comment.

Or scroll down Celstalon's twitter a couple times.

@NikoliEigenheer @Quicktum Squish is applied across the board (numbers about ~4% of what they were). Except player health, which is at ~8%.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...50239672094721

[Chickat]

Or scroll down Celstalon's twitter a couple times.

@NikoliEigenheer @Quicktum Squish is applied across the board (numbers about ~4% of what they were). Except player health, which is at ~8%.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...50239672094721

Sorry didn't see that.

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So, wait. If health is doubled does that mean health will be over double cata health at 100? That would be like 200k health for a fresh 100, and 300k+ in the final tier for a dps.

300k health 90+k dps at 100 final tier guessing.

[Reman]

So, we are sent back to old BC with Wotlk gear? Interesting :-)