1. #20041
    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We like no flying when content is relevant. In 6.1 the Draenor zones won't be current, but there will be a new no-fly zone.
    https://twitter.com/OccupyGStreet/st...11014708408321
    While finding the link/quote is commendable that was from November, 2013 -- Blizzcon era, thus still rolled up in the initial "Patch 6.1" hype/mindset. It is since outdated and irrelevant with

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mydjaH_HIE
    Gamescom 9 months later (go to timestamp 19:07)
    This is where he states it would take an "overwhelming" player response and even even then it is only "probably" not "definitely". They have been adamant about not giving players solid yes/no responses. The whole plan sold to us at Blizzcon has changed (unless of course we were sold a bill of goods to start with and we're now seeing the real thing) so that quote/link is meaningless in current context.

    Sorry, not trying to make you feel bad, just making sure context is maintained.

  2. #20042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    Incorrect.

    Wrath 'ended' with ~12.0-M but Cata's 1st qtr saw a 600k loss and started with only ~11.4-M. And..
    Cata 'ended' with ~9.6-M and MoP's 1st qtr 'started' with only ~8.3-M

    - - - Updated - - -MoP's 6th qtr subs of ~6.8-M (and declining) means that there would have to be a spike of ~3.2-M to get to that 10-M you 'predict". Never been done in the history of the game (since you want to quote 'history'). You would lose your money. I would take your month's pay bet if I had a rock-solid guarantee you'd pay up.



    I would know that Wrath opened with more than 10M players(11.5M in fact), Cata had 12M at its launch (so within a couple of days the number was slightly lower. semantics), and MoP opened with an even 10M players

    http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=7473409

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    During the first week of launch, prior to the release in China on October 2, the expansion had already sold through approximately 2.7 million copies and the game’s global player base passed 10 million subscribers, with growth across all major regions.*
    I know you just LOVE to argue, but next time do your research before calling someone a liar when their details are on par with facts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    While finding the link/quote is commendable that was from November, 2013 -- Blizzcon era, thus still rolled up in the initial "Patch 6.1" hype/mindset. It is since outdated and irrelevant with

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mydjaH_HIE
    Gamescom 9 months later (go to timestamp 19:07)
    This is where he states it would take an "overwhelming" player response and even even then it is only "probably" not "definitely". They have been adamant about not giving players solid yes/no responses. The whole plan sold to us at Blizzcon has changed (unless of course we were sold a bill of goods to start with and we're now seeing the real thing) so that quote/link is meaningless in current context.

    Sorry, not trying to make you feel bad, just making sure context is maintained.
    As it was stated before, we were not introducing new quotes... we were just talking about an old one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    That's ridiculous, people were outraged over things that they invested significant time and attention in long before there was an internet. TV shows have caused all kinds of ruckus going back to the 60s.
    Had there been no TV, or magazines, or newspapers, the only place people could bitch would be the Pub, and that would be about the politicians and real life... not a bunch of pixels that cost $15 a month. There is a big difference between actual problems, and the problems on game forums.

  3. #20043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    Gamescom 9 months later (go to timestamp 19:07)
    I still believe that we'll get flying with the major patch (6.1), and new no-fly zone(s) with it.

  4. #20044
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    As it was stated before, we were not introducing new quotes... we were just talking about an old one.
    Why talk about a quote where the stance has obviously changed? Giving people misinformation that isn't correct anymore, doesn't seem nice to me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    I still believe that we'll get flying with the major patch (6.1), and new no-fly zone(s) with it.
    I hope you are right, but I have my doubts

  5. #20045
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    The proof is in the pudding. The bulk of the game is casuals. Casuals love flight. Flight will unlock when 6.0 content is no longer current. (6.1)
    I'm minimally hopefull flight will happen but both Blizz's approach to this from Blizzcon to today, as well as my personal experiences in life (I'm 57) both as a family man and former business owner (9/11 killed it, don't ask) give me every reason to doubt it will. The 'evolution' of Blizz's revealed perspective on the issue shows to me --

    1) They had their plan firmly in place from the beginning and started out with an acceptable lie and then led us down a "primrose path" of pr spin and propoganda to get us to accept what they wanted (more commonly refered to as the Hegelian Dialectic method)

    2) Something drastic changed at the company at just the right/wrong time and threw a huge monkey wrench into the works that requried a substantial revamp and flight was added to the list of things to remove (along with other already known stuff like the stat quish, et al) and they've been working their asses of to find a positive way to spin it to keep from losing their shirts.

    Maybe other reasons but those are the two most likely in my mind.

    The first would show them up to be (what I feel is) sleazy and not the type of people I would be comfortable doing business with any more. The second shows them in trouble and scrambling to salvage what they can. That possibility, and that alone, is the only thing that's kept me from bailing already. I've only played since Cata so I have nowhere near the investment in the game so many others seem to have. I have all sorts of other things I can do with my leisure time/money than play this game. Giving them an opportunity to show me what they're really about in this regard is the only thing keeping me on board. But... if flight does not come with patch 6.1 I am done and gone, for good, w/o regrets or looking back.

  6. #20046
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    [QUOTE=Maneo;29666756]Why talk about a quote where the stance has obviously changed? Giving people misinformation that isn't correct anymore, doesn't seem nice to me./QUOTE]

    The old quote shows intent. It is possible this is still their plan, but with GC gone, they probably don't want the idea to look like his idea. Whether it is true or not, who knows. As for giving people misinformation, it is only misinformation if I don't loudly come out and explain it is old and outdated, then yes, it is not nice and dishonest. But, since I am clearly expressing it is old, and outdated, and given by a former employee, I am not being duplicitous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    I'm minimally hopefull flight will happen but both Blizz's approach to this from Blizzcon to today, as well as my personal experiences in life (I'm 57) both as a family man and former business owner (9/11 killed it, don't ask) give me every reason to doubt it will. The 'evolution' of Blizz's revealed perspective on the issue shows to me --

    1) They had their plan firmly in place from the beginning and started out with an acceptable lie and then led us down a "primrose path" of pr spin and propoganda to get us to accept what they wanted (more commonly refered to as the Hegelian Dialectic method)

    2) Something drastic changed at the company at just the right/wrong time and threw a huge monkey wrench into the works that requried a substantial revamp and flight was added to the list of things to remove (along with other already known stuff like the stat quish, et al) and they've been working their asses of to find a positive way to spin it to keep from losing their shirts.

    Maybe other reasons but those are the two most likely in my mind.

    The first would show them up to be (what I feel is) sleazy and not the type of people I would be comfortable doing business with any more. The second shows them in trouble and scrambling to salvage what they can. That possibility, and that alone, is the only thing that's kept me from bailing already. I've only played since Cata so I have nowhere near the investment in the game so many others seem to have. I have all sorts of other things I can do with my leisure time/money than play this game. Giving them an opportunity to show me what they're really about in this regard is the only thing keeping me on board. But... if flight does not come with patch 6.1 I am done and gone, for good, w/o regrets or looking back.
    GhostCrawler leaving.

  7. #20047
    Jesus christ, no amount of dos can shut this thread down - someone most have archived it already.
    Take me now satan, i've seen enough!
    i7-6700k @ 4.4ghz \ EVGA GTX 1080 FTW \ MSI z170a Carbon \ corsair hx 850 mod \ 16gb savage 2666 \ 4tb raid 1 wd black \ 256gb 600p m.2pcie
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  8. #20048
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    I would know that Wrath opened with more than 10M players(11.5M in fact), Cata had 12M at its launch (so within a couple of days the number was slightly lower. semantics), and MoP opened with an even 10M players
    Mine's just as big as yours

    http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...d-of-warcraft/

    Depends on how the data is laid out and how you read it so you prove nothing. As I stated, your claim/prediction that there will be a 3-M+ "bump" in subs is ludicrous. Never been done. The highest jump in sub # was from 1st qtr to 2nd qtr Vanilla with ~2-M. Second highest was 3rd qtr to 4th qtr Vanilla at ~1.5-M. All other sub increases (while they lasted) were at ~1-M or less.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Anzaman View Post
    I still believe that we'll get flying with the major patch (6.1), and new no-fly zone(s) with it.
    Nothing wrong with positive thinking and I do hope you're right. I'm just very doubtful.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    GhostCrawler leaving.
    Possible. I've said before both on WoW GD and here that I would find it ironic beyond belief that GC, the man so many seemed to have so much fun hating, might have actually been a "steady hand on the wheel" keeping more "loose cannon" dev types (like Afrasiabi) changing the game in some way that would damage it. It's obvious his departure right after Blizzcon (not before, hmmmm) wasn't spur of the moment, at least on his part. Whether Blizz as a company had any inkling before hand we could only ask them (not that they would answer). I'm not sure if I believe that a single employee leaving the company could have that much impact on any company. If so, Blizz made a mistake in investing so much in that one guy that he became all but indepensible and his departure cause that much damage/turmoil.

  9. #20049
    [QUOTE=Walter II;29666850]
    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    Why talk about a quote where the stance has obviously changed? Giving people misinformation that isn't correct anymore, doesn't seem nice to me./QUOTE]

    The old quote shows intent. It is possible this is still their plan, but with GC gone, they probably don't want the idea to look like his idea. Whether it is true or not, who knows. As for giving people misinformation, it is only misinformation if I don't loudly come out and explain it is old and outdated, then yes, it is not nice and dishonest. But, since I am clearly expressing it is old, and outdated, and given by a former employee, I am not being duplicitous.

    - - - Updated - - -



    GhostCrawler leaving.
    and now you find out he was way better than the guy that replaced him

  10. #20050
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    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    and now you find out he was way better than the guy that replaced him
    I was always a GC fan, even when everyone else was on a "witch hunt".

  11. #20051
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    Jesus christ, no amount of dos can shut this thread down - someone most have archived it already.
    Take me now satan, i've seen enough!
    Want this thread to go away?

    Well look to Blizzard, they will have to say either flight is returning (and when) or gone completely from WoD.

    And if flight is gone from WoD they will have to show us how its removal has improved the game, and how it isn't going to slow us down making travel tedious. Beta unfortunately hasn't shown either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=shammypie;29667198]
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post

    and now you find out he was way better than the guy that replaced him
    Ain't that the truth

  12. #20052
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    I was always a GC fan, even when everyone else was on a "witch hunt".
    The Irony is he moved away from blizzard as he was tired of making a game that you had to ensure someones granny could play (one of his interviews/tweets) then joines riot games which has the most open and casual friendly mobos around XD. (I like Lol btw :P just found it funny)

  13. #20053
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    I'm minimally hopefull flight will happen but both Blizz's approach to this from Blizzcon to today, as well as my personal experiences in life (I'm 57) both as a family man and former business owner (9/11 killed it, don't ask) give me every reason to doubt it will. The 'evolution' of Blizz's revealed perspective on the issue shows to me --

    1) They had their plan firmly in place from the beginning and started out with an acceptable lie and then led us down a "primrose path" of pr spin and propoganda to get us to accept what they wanted (more commonly refered to as the Hegelian Dialectic method)

    2) Something drastic changed at the company at just the right/wrong time and threw a huge monkey wrench into the works that requried a substantial revamp and flight was added to the list of things to remove (along with other already known stuff like the stat quish, et al) and they've been working their asses of to find a positive way to spin it to keep from losing their shirts.

    Maybe other reasons but those are the two most likely in my mind.

    The first would show them up to be (what I feel is) sleazy and not the type of people I would be comfortable doing business with any more. The second shows them in trouble and scrambling to salvage what they can. That possibility, and that alone, is the only thing that's kept me from bailing already. I've only played since Cata so I have nowhere near the investment in the game so many others seem to have. I have all sorts of other things I can do with my leisure time/money than play this game. Giving them an opportunity to show me what they're really about in this regard is the only thing keeping me on board. But... if flight does not come with patch 6.1 I am done and gone, for good, w/o regrets or looking back.
    I think they had huge problems with this new tech they are using. I think it forced Blizzard to put product on the street in an unreasonable time frame.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    The Irony is he moved away from blizzard as he was tired of making a game that you had to ensure someones granny could play (one of his interviews/tweets) then joines riot games which has the most open and casual friendly mobos around XD. (I like Lol btw :P just found it funny)
    I think Bobby is in control and he has Bobby-fied the company.

  14. #20054
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    The Irony is he moved away from blizzard as he was tired of making a game that you had to ensure someones granny could play (one of his interviews/tweets) then joines riot games which has the most open and casual friendly mobos around XD. (I like Lol btw :P just found it funny)
    One of life's little ironies

  15. #20055
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    If we were all smart, we would go back to the days before forums. When games were games and you either played or you didn't. Had there been Pac-Man forums in 1981, I could only imagine the OUTRAGE on their forum when PacMan got a bow in his hair and became Ms. PacMan. If it were not for BNet and MMO-C, and other "fan sites", people would either play, or not play. Buy, or not buy. But they would just take the product at face value and not have such high/low/crazy expectations. Had there been forums, people probably would have bitched about Tetris while the cold war was still a thing.
    You know as well as I do it was word of mouth back then and communication was slowly evolving.

    Now, communication is everywhere. No longer can you hide behind gamers not knowing something unless you specifically mislead them. Which isn't really all that good.

    I would not want to go back to those days as I grew very tried of buying games that turned out to suck.

    Like flying in wow. Communication evolved and we grew beyond word of mouth for our only reliable source of free information. Gamers have always found problems and found things they like, the communication stream was just limited. Companies have been created so gamers don't feel stiffed on a product just because it had a fantastic PR/marketing team but the game sold didn't live up to it. Many times it's the game company that does the damage with their own hype machine, not the gamer.

    I wouldn't go back to those times ever. Better to make a decently informed decision off others gamers opinions than blindly going by the game companies PR spin.

    Take no flying. I'd be a little pissed if I caught a collectors edition with the flying mount (even if it does run on the ground), got in game and made it to max level and found out I could not use my flying mount as I have been able to for every expansion this game has ever had. Knowing blizzard didn't add that one stipulation on anything I bought or was upfront about it in anyway except on minority driven forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laumann View Post
    However I shall continue to call you out when you make untruthful statements of fact as and when time will allow.
    You do that but nothing I have said is untruthful.
    Last edited by quras; 2014-09-24 at 05:33 PM.

  16. #20056
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    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Take no flying. I'd be a little pissed if I caught a collectors edition with the flying mount (even if it does run on the ground), got in game and made it to max level and found out I could not use my flying mount as I have been able to for every expansion this game has ever had. Knowing blizzard didn't add that one stipulation on anything I bought or was upfront about it in anyway except on minority driven forums.
    It's no different than buying a sports car that will do 260 mph, and living in a city where the max speed limit is 65 As for this game, it is only a game. WoD is trying to recapture what TBC had, while incorporating what MoP brought us. Do I support no flight? Only until 6.1. I think it is a key feature of convenience that players might miss after a few months. Then again, while playing in Beta, to get my flying fix, I headed to Aldrassil to soar among the Druids. My nostalgia for South Shore takes me into the Durnholde instance, and I know I can't fly there... and I am ok with that. I tell everyone the same thing. If no flying is THAT important, then sit it out til 6.1.

  17. #20057
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    It's no different than buying a sports car that will do 260 mph, and living in a city where the max speed limit is 65
    Ugh no. Cause you can still do 260 if you want taking the consequences as they come. You currently have no option to fly in WoD that keeps you in control.

    Thats not really the same.

    As for this game, it is only a game.
    Well yea. At the end of it no one really gives a shit about wow but it's fun to talk about it.

    WoD is trying to recapture what TBC had, while incorporating what MoP brought us.
    Like most things, you simply cannot go back and relive what has past. This is the same for games. they will never be the same and trying to relive some days of past glory is a pipe dream. The big quaterback who now only talks of his days of past glory on the field as he cleans out the mens restroom or the game company that had a great hit but is now losing steam. You cannot move forward by always looking back.


    Do I support no flight? Only until 6.1. I think it is a key feature of convenience that players might miss after a few months. Then again, while playing in Beta, to get my flying fix, I headed to Aldrassil to soar among the Druids. My nostalgia for South Shore takes me into the Durnholde instance, and I know I can't fly there... and I am ok with that. I tell everyone the same thing. If no flying is THAT important, then sit it out til 6.1.
    I can't argue with perspective but for me, the current WoD game isn't better because I can't fly at max level. it's just the same content we have been getting but you have to stay on the ground. Decent content but I find it very hard to support blizzard in this at all given the removal of flight, no changes because of it and yet still selling it in every way they can.

    I tell everyone something similar. If you spent additional money on flying, spent time in game collecting flying mounts or just in general like flying at max level in content that you just spent more for, then WoD is probably not for you because at the moment, no one knows if we will get it back or not.

  18. #20058
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    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Like most things, you simply cannot go back and relive what has past. This is the same for games.
    Flying is now in the past come 6.0. We can either keep up hope about 6.1, or we can move on to something new. Just like the leap from Wrath to Cata is the leap from MoP to WoD. Once launched, flight will be a part of the past, and there will be no going back for it. But, as I have said all along, Blizz caters to casuals, and casuals love to fly.

  19. #20059
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    Flying is now in the past come 6.0.
    Still being sold by blizzard says otherwise. Use of it in relavent content maybe but even blizzard knows how badly gamers want flying. Otherwise you wouldnt have flying mounts in the collectors edition or still being sold in their cash shop.

    Flying is going nowhere. To much of a cash grab for blizzard on multiple fronts to let it go. If it was really detrimental to the design process. It would be out as a new wave of better content came around.

    We're not really getting that.

    We can either keep up hope about 6.1, or we can move on to something new. Just like the leap from Wrath to Cata is the leap from MoP to WoD. Once launched, flight will be a part of the past, and there will be no going back for it. But, as I have said all along, Blizz caters to casuals, and casuals love to fly.
    I think everyone enjoys flying to be honest, not just casuals and at this point I'd rather any gamer and give them the low down before they drop $50 on an expansion (that will not tell them flying is out till some random date in the future).

    Tell them how content really hasn't changed as blizzard said it would just because they removed flying. It's just no flying, some added waste of time traveling and thats about it.

  20. #20060
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    GhostCrawler leaving.
    Blizzard spending millions and millions to buy their company back from Vivendi? They lost out on funding for their project "titan" when they had to spend all that money on a dying company. They had to reallocate all those "titan" employees or fire them(they couldn't fire all of them). They had a massive slow down with developing WoW when they put all those new workers into the team. They also had several big names leave the team.

    But, sure, blame it all on one person leaving.
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