Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Mosotti]

Some people somehow expected this to revolutionize questing and whatnot. That was never the intent. Simply put they want us on the same plane, which is the ground in this ground-based game. Removal of flight has tremendous effects on how we tackle content just because the option to just swoop down at the objective isn't there anymore. So how will you get to your objective... you know... gameplay. It's gameplay to see an objective at the top of a cliffside and thinking "how do I get up there?", regardless of whether or not one sees this as this devious scheming plot to make us progress slower.

Dude, stop that fucking bullshit already. Except for ONLY ONE expansion, there was no case of "swooping down" on the objective. There was no flying available until max level, there was no swooping, there will be no "tremendous effects" on leveling now. The "tremendous effects" will be on the poor max level character, 3-6-12-20 months into the fucking expansion, when there's nothing new on the stupid map. Yeah, I know it's sad that content designed in 1 year is consumed in 1 week, but that's no reason to keep people afk on flight paths or waste people's time with ground travel in an obsolete content

[rda]

Some people somehow expected this to revolutionize questing and whatnot. That was never the intent. Simply put they want us on the same plane, which is the ground in this ground-based game. Removal of flight has tremendous effects on how we tackle content just because the option to just swoop down at the objective isn't there anymore. So how will you get to your objective... you know... gameplay. It's gameplay to see an objective at the top of a cliffside and thinking "how do I get up there?", regardless of whether or not one sees this as this devious scheming plot to make us progress slower.

So, you say it's fine that WoD quests are designed the same as MoP quests. And you say it's expected. And you argue in favor of removing flying. OK.

So, just to make sure everyone understands what you want from that no flying thing, you want, say, Valley of the Four Winds to have a road to those hills with hozens in the north, and you want dailies for the Tillers to be done by walking up that road, killing those hozen, then walking down again. You think that's more immersive. And you argue that everyone should have to go by the road, because if someone is able to fly instead of walking, you'd immediately have to fly as well, because there's no other option.

That's the gist of the argument for having no flying, correct?

[Prothall]

Lol, this thread just seems like an endless stream of complaining and hating, deary me such upset. Get over it already and enjoy the game for what it is.

That's exactly what it is. I'll bet this thread will still be going when the expansion after WoD releases, because these people don't know when to give it a rest and realize that things aren't going to change, no matter how much they whine about it.

WoD goes live in two days, people. Still unable to fly in Draenor? YUP. Because Blizzard doesn't want you to. You can post and post and post until your fingers are worn down to nubs from all the typing, and you're still not flying in Draenor.

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So, you say it's fine that WoD quests are designed the same as MoP quests. And you say it's expected. And you argue in favor of removing flying. OK.

So, just to make sure everyone understands what you want from that no flying thing, you want, say, Valley of the Four Winds to have a road to those hills with hozens in the north, and you want dailies for the Tillers to be done by walking up that road, killing those hozen, then walking down again. You think that's more immersive. And you argue that everyone should have to go by the road, because if someone is able to fly instead of walking, you'd immediately have to fly as well, because there's no other option.

That's the gist of the argument for having no flying, correct?

Well, when your rebuttal consists of using as an example content that you can't really access (by design) until you're level 90 and can fly, umm...

No, I don't think so.

[quras]

Lol, this thread just seems like an endless stream of complaining and hating, deary me such upset. Get over it already and enjoy the game for what it is.

I tried. I played the beta. Played 4 different toons.

Guess what? It wasn't as enjoyable because I couldn't fly. Blizzard didn't create a world like they said with better flight paths, shorter and more direct ones. The content itself didn't all of a sudden become "better" when I went to it from the ground VS from the sky. I had to land either way to accomplish my objectives and finish the quests. Once you have seen that content leveling up, you'll get to max level and wonder why it was again you had to give up flying to see some worthless crap again and again.

I've said it before. No flying didn't break the game, it just didn't make it better or more enjoyable or make me kill random worthless mob #9029837409 again. It's not better because flying is removed for some undisclosed amount of time. It doesn't make me appreciate some spawned bush or tree or make me in awe of a ditch blizzard made. The content just isn't better.

It's like that little splinter in your sock, always poking you every time you move. It's distracting and an annoyance in everything you do and seeing flying mounts on the ground just makes it worse.

[rda]

Well, when your rebuttal consists of using as an example content that you can't really access (by design) until you're level 90 and can fly, umm...

No, I don't think so.

What rebuttal, I just asked whether this is what MasterHamster wanted - the hills to have a road up them (which would make them accessible without a flying mount, if I have to explain it) and to go up and down that road instead of flying, that's all. If this isn't what he wants, he'll explain. If this isn't what you want, please explain what it is that you want.

[sykoex]

I tried. I played the beta. Played 4 different toons.

Guess what? It wasn't as enjoyable because I couldn't fly. Blizzard didn't create a world like they said with better flight paths, shorter and more direct ones. The content itself didn't all of a sudden become "better" when I went to it from the ground VS from the sky. I had to land either way to accomplish my objectives and finish the quests. Once you have seen that content leveling up, you'll get to max level and wonder why it was again you had to give up flying to see some worthless crap again and again.

I've said it before. No flying didn't break the game, it just didn't make it better or more enjoyable or make me kill random worthless mob #9029837409 again. It's not better because flying is removed for some undisclosed amount of time. It doesn't make me appreciate some spawned bush or tree or make me in awe of a ditch blizzard made. The content just isn't better.

It's like that little splinter in your sock, always poking you every time you move. It's distracting and an annoyance in everything you do and seeing flying mounts on the ground just makes it worse.

you couldn't fly during the leveling process in Pandaria either. And even the daily zones like Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle didn't allow flying, so this won't really be much different from current end game Pandaria.

[Barkloud]

What a new and well thought out observation. Perhaps it's because exploring with a flying mount is less of exploring and more of sight seeing.

Blizz tried to gate the player base in MoP through time release dailies. The players rebelled and the gate was removed

It will be the same with flying. Players do not like needless gates.

Those few people who do know about this change understand why blizzard is doing what they are doing.

Flying will be back, the players will demand it.

120% running speed is Too slow and flight points still remain meandering long sightseeing time sucking useless wastes of time.

[rda]

120% running speed is Too slow and flight points still remain meandering long sightseeing time sucking useless wastes of time.

Yes, 120% is a far cry from 280% / 310% plus it's via ground = going around hills / mountains / lakes, plus there are mobs. It's quite a big difference.

[sykoex]

Blizz tried to gate the player base in MoP through time release dailies. The players rebelled and the gate was removed

It will be the same with flying. Players do not like needless gates.

Those few people who do know about this change understand why blizzard is doing what they are doing.

Flying will be back, the players will demand it.

120% running speed is Too slow and flight points still remain meandering long sightseeing time sucking useless wastes of time.

I doubt the players will ask for flying back once they experience WoD. In any other MMO I've played without flying like SWTOR and Rift, when someone in public chat brings up flying mounts (usually jokingly) you get torrent of people saying how much they don't want them in the game.

[rda]

I doubt the players will ask for flying back once they experience WoD. In any other MMO I've played without flying like SWTOR and Rift, when someone in public chat brings up flying mounts (usually jokingly) you get torrent of people saying how much they don't want them in the game.

There's a difference in that the games you mention never had flying and had substitute tech like teleports, while WoW had flying for a pretty long time (in fact, it was a big selling point for some people) and has no substitute tech.

[quras]

you couldn't fly during the leveling process in Pandaria either. And even the daily zones like Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle didn't allow flying, so this won't really be much different from current end game Pandaria.

It does if that is not especially entertaining to you.

No flying while leveling has been pretty staple stince flying inception baring one instance. Riding on the ground during leveling doesn't make that experience better either but most are Ok with that. However, if we could fly it would be OK as well.

Max level is a different story. You've seen that content now from teh ground for 10 levels. Its' time to fly. It's time for my God-slayer to get on his dragon and fly.

As far as Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle goes. That content wasn't any good when it was free in a patch. I'll be damned if I pay an inflated price of $50 for an entire expansion based on it. Now, I'm not saying someone didn't love or like it and I'm not arguing for it to not be in game somewhere. IT just doesn't need to be everywhere.

It would have been much better to cast the net wide and have the best of both worlds, flying and no flying areas in current content at max level. Let gamers choose what they want to do and now they want to attack the content. Hit both sides of the fence instead of dividing them even more placing them at odds VS one another on who is right and wrong.

I doubt the players will ask for flying back once they experience WoD.

I am. WoD is not a better game without flying. It's an option limiting expansion to extend content. Hell, it's less interesting because you cannot fly at max level if anything.

In any other MMO I've played without flying like SWTOR and Rift, when someone in public chat brings up flying mounts (usually jokingly) you get torrent of people saying how much they don't want them in the game.

My anecdotal argument is different. Most people we run across disliked the idea of no flying at max level. Our guild in beta has played the content and the experience isn't any better. Im many cases it's worse. Just the idea of another FP made us cringe. Missing nodes and area because you can't get off the mount.

No, our experience in beta didn't show us a better game with no flying. When we ask gamers what they think, there is still a 50/50 chance it's hated and loved. No flying isn't some great redeemer for wow or formula for a better game. Maybe on an individual bases but really, you could have been on the ground anytime you needed that aspect of fun no matter how much better flying was.

[sykoex]

It would have been much better to cast the net wide and have the best of both worlds, flying and no flying areas in current content at max level. Let gamers choose what they want to do and now they want to attack the content. Hit both sides of the fence instead of dividing them even more placing them at odds VS one another on who is right and wrong.

That sounds really cool. I wonder if they'll consider that for the first big content patch!

[quras]

That sounds really cool. I wonder if they'll consider that for the first big content patch!

Will it matter by then?

If adjusted too late as it seems they will because their always screwing up soemthing at the first of every expansions and then having to go back and "fix" it, will it be worth the subscriber loss?

and if done where flying is in content no one cares for but no flying is made in new content, It all turns into a cluster "F", most people I know want nothing to do with that kind of desgin. It's like now, sure you can fly in old content but no one gives a shit about that. They want to fly at max level in relevant new content they just paid more to be in.

Much to easy for blizzard to screw it up again if you ask me if their waiting on patches.

It would have had to be done now and ready for WoD launch. Content that hits both sides of gamers, not just one.

Sadly that is not the case.

[Apexis]

you couldn't fly during the leveling process in Pandaria either. And even the daily zones like Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle didn't allow flying, so this won't really be much different from current end game Pandaria.

Problem here is, you are talking about a few small places and not an entire world of content, so it is very different. True you could not flying while leveling through Pandaria, but once you got to 90 you could purchase it immediately at 90 for 2500g, that is not happening here, so again you are totally off the mark.

The only real reason to not have flying in WoD, is very simply the content needs to last a very long time and it need to be dragged out to the point where people will no long find a use for it once it is consumed. At best, at launch there might be about a month of content outside of raiding and Ashran for thos that do them. The rest will be consumed very quickly. The only other thing that drags out content more is the garrison, it is the content outside of raiding and pvp. One recurring daily, plus a weekly out of the garrison for some 13 weeks is all the extends that from going to be a drag.

Once the masses really start pay attention, which should be about a max of two weeks, they will find a large world with not a whole lot in it other than to grind out profession for the garrison and if they do the stables, mounts to farm out. Other than what the garrison has to offer, the world is a bit of illusion of massive space, but not enough content in it to shake a stick. Once raiding commences that will provide some with additional content. By then everyone should have bled out whatever gear out of the dungeons and profession. The rest will simply have little to do past the lfr and pet battles (for those that do this).

Leveling is such a joke in this content and can be completed in about 5 or so hours, many will be wondering why they can't fly at 100. Well there is just not enough to drag out long enough to get the next patch cycle. I see a lot of people getting to 100, saying the hell with the garrison and logging out until the next catch up round of content. Maybe they can make another island that gives armor tokens to the people that did not bite on the spoon feed drip drip content at launch.

[Deleted]

I doubt the players will ask for flying back once they experience WoD. In any other MMO I've played without flying like SWTOR and Rift, when someone in public chat brings up flying mounts (usually jokingly) you get torrent of people saying how much they don't want them in the game.

Vanilla had no flying, BC and WotLK had and people asked for flying in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, so it got added in Cataclysm. So this is the completely oposite of what you're predicting.

[Drytoast]

Jesus christ you whiny sack of lego! Who on earth ever made you believe that anyone gives a hula hop ring about your opinion, since you dont even play "this shit burger of a game". Get the bonanza out of these forums, and go troll somewhere else.

You are everything that is and ever has been wrong with this game, and the worst thing is you do not even realize it!

Get this into your thick skull. This statement: "That's if I bothered to pay for this shit burger of a game, of course!" Only makes one person seem like a complete tool, and no-lifer, and thats YOU!

It's because this game is a shit burger, debating it's level of shit status is much more entertaining then actually playing the game.




...and it's free!

[Apexis]

That sounds really cool. I wonder if they'll consider that for the first big content patch!

Blizzard is under some illusion here, as well as some of the people that play this game. Many aspects of the content coming are not going to be enjoyed by all. They are under some illusion, if we make the gear bad enough people will somehow want to raid in an organized group or everyone simply wants to do the garrison, so let make it feel a bit optional, but in the end they will all really have to do or the illusion that everyone that plays this game like to play it on the ground. This part does not bother me much, I have always used a combination of both, but I don't want to force what I do on another person that does not find that type of play enjoyable.

There is so much in this content, that there are tons of areas within it that people will be shaking their heads in wonder, why Blizzard did you do this to the game I love and enjoy. Their is an awaking coming to a lot of people come Thursday and beyond. I am wondering how many will be around for the long haul when the dust finally settles. I doubt they got to the content patch to stop the bleeding that is most likely to occur. Given what has transpired over the course of MoP, I think Blizzard totally misjudged the majority of people that play this game. Flying is just a small portion of a bigger problem they have going forward.

They should have left the garrison out of the leveling process, it would have been better for the overall health of this expansion. It simply going to be the redheaded step child of the expansion, because so much content is wrapped so tight into it.

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Jesus christ you whiny sack of lego! Who on earth ever made you believe that anyone gives a hula hop ring about your opinion, since you dont even play "this shit burger of a game". Get the bonanza out of these forums, and go troll somewhere else.

You are everything that is and ever has been wrong with this game, and the worst thing is you do not even realize it!

Get this into your thick skull. This statement: "That's if I bothered to pay for this shit burger of a game, of course!" Only makes one person seem like a complete tool, and no-lifer, and thats YOU!

See, I been talking about this very thing for a very long time in various places. People like you are completely delusional in thinking that everyone that play this game, wants to play it like yourself. This person you commented to is but one of a large group of people that play the same exact way and even worse. This notion that people want to play and MMO with others is also an illusion, many play to make others play a nightmare, they see it their life's mission to do so.

When one is out in the trenches and not stuck in some small confines of a group of friends guild, the environment is not so nice and the people are rarely nice. There are far more numb nuts play today than when I started playing. I am more than sure than more than 50% that play this game today do so in a single player mode and they are also the numb nuts that plague the game and make people just walk away, because they simply just do not want to deal with them. Not really anyway around them, because they are simply everywhere in the content.

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There's a difference in that the games you mention never had flying and had substitute tech like teleports, while WoW had flying for a pretty long time (in fact, it was a big selling point for some people) and has no substitute tech.

You and Blizzard are completely delusional, even at Blizzcon they simply did not have a clue when ask simple softball questions. It be one thing if they had a system of teleportation in place of flying, but they do not and it still the easiest and simplest way to travel between two points. Blizzard thinks people enjoy simply flying around on their convoluted flight path system, even though WoD system is better than previous expansions, they still do not get it.

Not everyone goes afk, to go do something while they are on a slow boat FP to some far away place in the content. Personally, the only reason I use a flying mount is to be able to bypass using the flight path system in game. It is slow and does not really take yo to where you really want to be, it only get you close, say with in a half a zone away from your intended target area.

[rda]

You and Blizzard are completely delusional, even at Blizzcon they simply did not have a clue when ask simple softball questions. It be one thing if they had a system of teleportation in place of flying, but they do not and it still the easiest and simplest way to travel between two points. Blizzard thinks people enjoy simply flying around on their convoluted flight path system, even though WoD system is better than previous expansions, they still do not get it.

Not everyone goes afk, to go do something while they are on a slow boat FP to some far away place in the content. Personally, the only reason I use a flying mount is to be able to bypass using the flight path system in game. It is slow and does not really take yo to where you really want to be, it only get you close, say with in a half a zone away from your intended target area.

I agree that Blizzard didn't have a clue, but I am somehow missing why *I* am delusional.

[Mafic]

The masses are so uninformed that they do not know even know that guild perks for ground mounts and flight paths are gone. And even if you use a garrison to re-obtain a perk it (eg ground mount speed) it is still a net nerf from what we had before.

Blizz is trying to sneak in these gates subtlety like slowly boiling a frog and expecting people not to realize what they have done. In less than three days people will learn the truth.

[Baconeggcheese]

Blizz is trying to sneak in these gates

Seriously though, that word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Unless we cannot reach the content through any means without flying... it is not a gate.