Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Raeln]

I have played and paid the least amount of time this expansion out of all the time WoW has been out. I didn't even start MoP until 5.2 dropped and I left shortly after 5.3 dropped. I came back later during 5.4 and recently unsubbed again. I want to play and like this game again, but they are constantly making design choices that make the game less enjoyable to me. MoP crapped on 5 mans and that was a big draw for me in previous expansions. Now with them talking about limiting flight for the first patch cycle and maybe longer and I can't help but be frustrated and disappointed. So assume what you may, I want to play this game. I however will not give them money to give me a game I don't enjoy.

Fair enough and my own personal reasons for not buying WoD (yet) is I'm waiting to see if it's just MoP 2.0 for endgame raid or die.

Flying mounts are really a non-issue for me. They annoy me but I'm not going to quit over them. At the same time, I wouldn't throw some rage fit if Blizzard had said we can fly the moment we enter WoD.

Do I think the game would be better if flying mounts were never implemented? Yes.
Do I think it's possible to return the game to a non-flying mount state? No.
Do I think that flying mounts need nerfed? Yes. Ground mounts should remain a viable choice and not just arbitrarily because a dungeon or raid zone forbids flying mounts.

All that said - I really think we should be able to mount up anywhere we want - outdoors/indoors/caves/dungeons/raids. The content should be designed to prevent certain types of mounts from being effective though. I'm not fond of turning things off to just turn things off - I like there to be a story reason to support such a decision.

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People who really want to leave don't need a scapegoat. Those who need the goat are likely a minority. I don't play with RL friends anymore. I don't even refer to guildies by real names. The game is purely sandbox for me. There are others who share my sentiment. If Flying never finds its way into Draenor by the launch of 6.1, I will take my very large wallet and go spend my money on another hobby. One that maintains some consistency and doesn't just give you conveniences and then remove them when it is convenient for them.

There are exceptions to every rule Superman and I left some room in there for exceptions.

There are people that have posted in this very long thread that somehow removing flying is the killer nail in the coffin though and to me, that screams "Scapegoat" issue. They are looking for a reason to leave and "no flying" is exactly the nail they need to break their addiction in their mind.

[Cassidin]

That's something that I was not able to reconcile. What is it about climbing on a flying mount that makes it so that you have to 60 levels of experience to be able to do?

Seems to me (and this goes for ground mounts too) that if you have to level restrict it - then as a developer, you should be asking yourself if you are implementing it correctly in the first place. One of the things I like most about Rift is they make no restrictions on ground mounts - if you have one at level 5 when you leave the newbie area, grats! you can now mount up.

It's not a fast one but it's at least one. I've yet to figure out how one has to be level 20, 40, whatever just to be able to learn to ride a horse. I know 8 year olds that can ride horses personally. RPG stuff I guess.

Think its just historical tbh. In vanilla a mount was a big status symbol a lot of people didn't get until near level 60 because of the cost even though you could get one at 40 if you could afford it. In many cases in vanilla it was rather academic what the mount level was as you wouldn't be able to afford to get one before then anyway. At least - many/most people couldn't.

[Wrathonia]

Blizzard has come out and said players don't enjoy 3D combat in vashjir exactly because of aggro issues. You are fine with 3D doesn't mean others are fine with 3D combat. I know I personally would love aerial combat but oh well.

My point is that flying is just too potent to the point that flying is essentially enabling cheat in WoW. Some form of fix/balance is required or perhaps Blizzard can change the whole flying mechanics.

It's not cheating when the things you are avoiding are non threats to begin with.

[Cassidin]

Blizzard has come out and said players don't enjoy 3D combat in vashjir exactly because of aggro issues. You are fine with 3D doesn't mean others are fine with 3D combat. I know I personally would love aerial combat but oh well.

My point is that flying is just too potent to the point that flying is essentially enabling cheat in WoW. Some form of fix/balance is required or perhaps Blizzard can change the whole flying mechanics.

How do you believe that flying is "cheating"? I'm curious.

[Giscoicus]

How do you believe that flying is "cheating"? I'm curious.

It's not cheating, but it like a cheat. Imagine being able to disable collision, and walk through a mountain you can't cross, or a great barrier. Or walk through the ground and not agro mobs.

Flying allows you to ignore such things. If it wasn't a built in function, a program doing exactly the same thing would be considered a huge cheat.

[wow2011]

How do you believe that flying is "cheating"? I'm curious.

See a node? Land and stay mounted to see if you agro something. If you get agro, fly up and instantly loose agro to change a spot where you won't agro. If not, proceed to mine/herb.

See a level 99 clearing the way to a rare mob? Fly down on top of that rare and kill it.

Stay mounted in Hellfire pvp capture node. If you see someone coming, check out his hp to see if he is easy pick. If he is easy pick then kill him. If not then fly away. (or simply fly away when a group charges in).

Stay mounted in Hellfire pvp capture node. If you get stunned by a rogue, press space to fly directly up. Float in midair above all danger until reinforcement come or you fly away.

I can give a lot more examples but I think these will do for now.

[-Superman-]

There are exceptions to every rule Superman and I left some room in there for exceptions.

There are people that have posted in this very long thread that somehow removing flying is the killer nail in the coffin though and to me, that screams "Scapegoat" issue. They are looking for a reason to leave and "no flying" is exactly the nail they need to break their addiction in their mind.

Or maybe, Blizz has finally just pushed them too far? Like I said, some people might need a scapegoat, but if they are still playing after this many years, flying likely means more to them than most. For me, it is flying.

Had blizz said, "We're going to try selling BiS Raid Gear in the Blizz Shop, and you can now purchase your current Tier raid gear there." How FAST would players unsub from this game? Leveling isn't shit in the scheme of things, but I bet selling the same gear that drops from SoO 25M Heroic would certainly create a mass exodus. Especially from all those guilds who have been raiding forever and spending every free minute in the game trying to take down Garrosh just for a chance at gear.

I'm not a raider. But I bet if they sold gear, and I bought some, I would NEVER get into a raid guild. Hell, at that point I might as well quit. Same thing with Flying. Some of us love this game, and we really love to fly everywhere we go, in everything we do. Taking that away from us is like taking away the feeling of downing Garrosh when you could just buy the gear and say, "Fuck Raiding. It's no longer needed." Granted, flying is not end game content, but it IS important to me, and others like me.

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If it wasn't a built in function

But since it is, it pretty much invalidates your entire argument.

[KWC3587]

Naw... other MMOs are just lazy. Much easier to implement a portal system than flying. The flight paths add immersion to the game. Many MMOs don't have flying at all, and the main problem with flight paths is that they take so much longer than simply flying there yourself.

But, keep up the complains, maybe Blizz will add "cannon" paths to replace flight paths :P.

So putting yourself on a fp and going afk is immersive?

[Raeln]

Or maybe, Blizz has finally just pushed them too far? Like I said, some people might need a scapegoat, but if they are still playing after this many years, flying likely means more to them than most. For me, it is flying.

Had blizz said, "We're going to try selling BiS Raid Gear in the Blizz Shop, and you can now purchase your current Tier raid gear there." How FAST would players unsub from this game? Leveling isn't shit in the scheme of things, but I bet selling the same gear that drops from SoO 25M Heroic would certainly create a mass exodus. Especially from all those guilds who have been raiding forever and spending every free minute in the game trying to take down Garrosh just for a chance at gear.

I'm not a raider. But I bet if they sold gear, and I bought some, I would NEVER get into a raid guild. Hell, at that point I might as well quit. Same thing with Flying. Some of us love this game, and we really love to fly everywhere we go, in everything we do. Taking that away from us is like taking away the feeling of downing Garrosh when you could just buy the gear and say, "Fuck Raiding. It's no longer needed." Granted, flying is not end game content, but it IS important to me, and others like me.

We likely will see some form of gear acquisition from the cash shop soon - if not WoD then the next expansion. It will probably come in the form of a currency (gems, Blizzard points, etc) that is used at a vendor to buy random boxes like you buy from the TI vendor and the Black Market Auction house. We likely will be able to dump gold to buy the same boxes - as that is a popular way to justify the cash shop side of it to paying players.

That said, I'm not crazy at all over the possibility of pay2win but I do think the raiding side of the game gets catered to too much.

But since it is, it pretty much invalidates your entire argument.

Not really. Flying mounts provide more freedom than most games will allow ever without typing in some sort of cheatcode. Just because developers add something to the game doesn't mean it will never be adjusted. Even during Vanilla - devs found that their addon APIs were too powerful and drastically altered them for TBC.

Flying is pandora's box though - obviously it can't be shoved back in the box but ultimately it will need to be restricted somehow.

[Ghostile]

So putting yourself on a fp and going afk is immersive?

No, but the ground movement after reaching the outpost, much more immersive compared to dropping onto whatever you were going for.

[-Superman-]

Flying is pandora's box though - obviously it can't be shoved back in the box but ultimately it will need to be restricted somehow.

Restricting flying is like trying to set the ocean on fire. As you said, the box has been opened. Why would anyone in their right mind allow restrictions when, up til now, there have been none? Sure, the 'get to level cap and then fly" thing for each new expac, but that has been a standard (except for Cata). If they reverted back to the TBC model now, or worse, Vanilla, they are going to do themselves more harm than good.

If you think people quitting over Panda bears was crazy, just wait to see the fallout from an entire expansion with no flying. People can book mark this page and come back to it. When WoD ends, if flight was never introduced, I promise the number of subs will be hoovering around 4M-5M, and that will be down from the 10M+ at launch. I promise the main forum will explode, and this one will get caught up in the wave.

[hyphnos]

You are not wasting any time dummy. If you don't like Timeless Isle social content in open world you have no reason to return to World of Draenor's leveling zones.
How will you waste time if you clearly don't like the social aspect of the game? You have no business in the zones of Draenor then. You have plenty of instanced content for you.

What? Now this is the part where you say you enjoy fishing? Gathering and looking at the view?
You just called someone crazy for liking to explore WoW zones...so I assume you don't like it eighter.

I do enjoy going out into the world, to DO things and I balance how much travel time I have to endure in order to get to the place to do it. Open world content, outside world bosses, rarely if ever requires social interaction but it does require travel time to get there.

Do you know where the valor/token vendors were for all tiers prior to 5.4? They were across the damnable world past the Shado-Pan garrison. The PVP vendors someplace else. The company that put this type of ridiculous travel timesink in for no reason other than "getting people out in the world" is the same one telling us how much wonderful content and how much better they will make the travel system. I have plenty of reason to be skeptical.

Instances are where most of the group interaction is needed and occurs in the game for me and to say that the open world encourages it flat out nonsense. The world is antagonistic to grouping in the sense that unless you're farming faction by kills, you pretty much lose out in every other aspect of the game if you actually group.

Do you remember 5.0 and 5.1? The patches where every aspect of max level open world content was designed around and for players with flying?? Honestly what the heck is wrong with you people. Blizzard shoved everyone out in the world assuming they could fly and put plenty of content (in fact, too much of it apparently) for players with flying. Either they will put NO open world content worth bothering with in WoD or you will have to invest travel time to go do it.

I despise travel time and don't buy for a minute that open world content with flying is inherently inferior to open world content without it because since WOTLK Blizzard has put plenty of enjoyable open world content into the game and gasp, it worked even with people flying. IMO it would have worked a hell of a lot worse without it because in the same amount of playtime, any one person could have done a lot less because without flying they would have spent a greater proportion of their limited playtime in transit.

Transit is inherently boring and if the game consisted entirely of a world to explore on foot, then it wouldn't have 100k players.

[Mafic]

I can understand people not liking WoD for many reasons, with no flying being one of them, but it amazes me when people consider not buying a game they would otherwise enjoy because it takes slightly longer to get around the world. Your loss, I guess.

It will take 30-33% longer to do dailies, gathering, archaelogy, etc.

Your loss I guess when the servers are empty and immersion of a lively world filled with players is broken.

Everyone will be in AFKgarrisons leveling professions, etc waiting for queues.

[Ghostile]

It will take 30-33% longer to do dailies, gathering, archaelogy, etc.

or maybe, just maybe, they will make that stuff just as fast with ground mounts?
There was a posts about someone crying how he can never think of collecting materials without flying, which got answered something along the lines "it is possible to make it just as fast"

[Rexxr]

So this REALLY dumb. If you you want to do on a PVP sever fine. I am on a PVE sever so your fing me over to encourage PVP??? People will just use flight paths on PVP and go afk. How dumb are they?

[Mafic]

One more thing...a car sales man once tried to sell me a car that did not have an air conditioner unit not installed (brand new car) but he said they could eventually do it. I walked out and told him shove it.

Either flying is a feature of the expansion or it is not. If Blizzard is afraid of the potentially backlash and refuse to make a decision now that indicates that they do not believe in removing flying in the first place. Either you believe in the design of your game or you don't (start over).

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or maybe, just maybe, they will make that stuff just as fast with ground mounts?
There was a posts about someone crying how he can never think of collecting materials without flying, which got answered something along the lines "it is possible to make it just as fast"

They can make it faster but it will crash the virtual economy.

[Ghostile]

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They can make it faster but it will crash the virtual economy.

Might want to explain that one a bit further, if they make it just as fast, where's the problem?

[Mafic]

So this REALLY dumb. If you you want to do on a PVP sevhttp://www.mmo-champion.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=26107972er fine. I am on a PVE sever so your fing me over to encourage PVP??? People will just use flight paths on PVP and go afk. How dumb are they?

+1 Good post.

[Mosotti]

If Blizzard removing flying is a dealbreaker for you - then where are you going to go? Almost no other MMORPG in existence has flight, at all.

So does that mean that you are walking away from MMORPGs altogether?

If you are just leaving WoW by stomping your feet and then go start playing a different MMORPG that doesn't have flight - you do realize that is a bit hypocritical, right?

I don't care about flying per se, I care about my time, which I don't want to be spent traveling in a well know environment. Sure I've played GW2, but there you could travel instantly with a fucking click on the map, no need for flying and ground mounts and flight paths. As soon as I got into PvP and I had to run like 80% of the time, I uninstalled faster than lightning...

I don't really intend to play any other MMORPG, it's not that I really really need to play a MMORPG. I think WoW is great as it is and it will suck if they remove flying, so I'm just waiting to see if I'll play it again

[Giscoicus]

So this REALLY dumb. If you you want to do on a PVP sever fine. I am on a PVE sever so your fing me over to encourage PVP??? People will just use flight paths on PVP and go afk. How dumb are they?

Normal servers have PvP too. You joined a game with faction warfare, there is no place with ZERO PvP EVER. Should people who PvP on normal/RP servers have their PvP ruined? The only difference between Normal and PvP servers are PvP ALWAYS has flag up. Should people interested in doing both PvE and PvP be confined to a PvP realm, and then screwed over PvE wise? No. They are changing this for everybody,

Flight paths also only move you to hubs, not every inch of the game. on PvP realms players who want to travel outside of hubs will still need to run there.

Blizzard has also made it clear that there are reasons OTHER THAN PVP that they want this change,