1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Naiomie View Post
    I'm laughing at everyone who's saying they're unsubbing just because you won't be able to fly. Kind of hilarious
    I personally love the idea of not being able to fly. The world feels so much bigger and scarier while not being able to fly!
    I you don't like to fly - don't learn flying and don't use flying mounts - problem solved.
    I love flying and love my flying mounts. So why punish me? And I play since day 1 and remember the times without flying mounts.
    Last edited by Kryos; 2014-03-09 at 11:31 AM.
    Atoms are liars, they make up everything!

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    Wait, what? A little unsure as to how that relates to flying in any way whatsoever. Is flying the only possible alternative to "afking in Garrisons"? I must say, that's very intriguing logic. Do explain.
    It's called path of least resistance. Why waste time going out into the world when everything that you could do is already centralized in the garrisons?

    Remember, Blizzard's stated they want to make the world DANGEROUS, savage etc.
    Yes, because that random level 90 random Orc is going to be oh-so dangerous to my character when I'm level 100.

    Not just killing a stray Mogu statue who happened to enter your aggro radius and didn't reset before you reached your destination.
    And yet that's all the claims of "dangerous and savage" amount to. All the gameplay trailers we've seen so far? About as "dangerous and savage" as every single fucking expansion to date. So no, they're not making the world "savage and dangerous". Nothing that we've seen indicates a "savage and dangerous" world, but just a tedious and annoying world with the exact same gameplay that Blizzard is just deciding to stay stagnant in instead of actually trying to go outside their comfort zone and actually bother putting in content that compliments flying.

  3. #443
    Deleted
    [I don't care about you guys, trying to build some pressure on the devs by saying "i will unsub" gtfo, this is the same mind which creates the "Ohh i want that spell XY form class XY too" in the Class Threads, which causes "Omfg Blizz Heroic Dungeons is designed for entitled pro's or what?". You get the point? Nearly every pussy aspect which ruined the WoW Feeling day after day was introduced by blizzard after such casual-ass people whined weeks after weeks and threatened to unsub. After a few years you got to this point and now they do the same shit again. Sometimes i wish i could stick your monthly 12€ into your ass and kick you to saturn with your threatening way of arguing about stuff. Always the same bs.]

    On-Topic: The world suffers from beeing to isolated as factions, is suffers from no "danger" out there, be it some stealthing enemies or the danger of pulling some more mobs while questing. Flying encourages you to speed up everything: gathering ressources and filling the AH, botting, chainquesting like mad, finishing whole areas in a short time, never engaging enemies in pvp or defending yourself, thinking about the geostructure and using your spells and ways to get to an point in a dangerous area. I mean, think of Blade's Edge for example. Little groups of oger, you want to infiltrate this complex and kill the leader, everywhere is the possibility of an ally/horde player, engaging you while you fight, you must THINK of a way of going through in the best way without adding the hell. And how is it flying? Whooops, land in front of the door, avoid 12 goups of oger and 4 patrolgroups, go in, kill the enemy, loot your item and fly away. Wow, thats self cheating and calling it a day because of soo many quests you are able to so in such a short time. And then log in into the forum and complain about "lame quests" and content too short for you questing pro's.

    And for all my frinds complaing about "But it was in the game for so long time, why now?" I mean, a mistake doesn't get any better by doing it futher on, it gets better by chaning as fast as you can and sail into the right direction. The faster you turn from a mistake, the better it is.

    To sum up:

    -it IS better for the PvP Feeling
    -it IS better for making ressources rare
    -it IS better for making elites rare
    -it IS better for the livingness of the world

    But it is NOT better for lazy-ass behaviour and childish mimimi folks, trying to show their bullshit mounts, which were farmed long after the content was relevant (i mean i give a shit about you sitting on a'lar and trying to impress anyone)
    Last edited by mmoc6df2314f2b; 2014-03-09 at 11:38 AM.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Geldo View Post
    -it IS better for the PvP Feeling
    Open World PVP died the day the introduced Battlegrounds. If you want open world pvp back - remove battlegrounds.

    -it IS better for making ressources rare
    Only good for botters and gold farmers since their under-ground-traveling-cheatbots will now be much more lucrative. Just like Vanilla times.

    -it IS better for making elites rare
    Depends on the realm - no people = rare is available. Many people = rare is always dead. Has nothing to do with flying/no flying.

    -it IS better for the livingness of the world
    No, if it's a big trouble to go outside people stay in the cities. Vanilla most people only went out if they need to and where in Ironforge the rest of the time.
    The world must be open and inviting and it must be better to be outside (money, gear, interesting/important things to do) than inside (cities). If the world is savage and cruel and full of monsters that kill you and you gain nothing from that you just avoid it.

    But it is NOT better for lazy-ass behaviour and childish mimimi folks
    So 90% of the server population. They may vote for no-flying in poll because nostalgie and forgetting how much it sucked but once they face the reality the same people will complain that they can't do shit outside without getting dismounted, elite-mob killed or pvp ganked and no way to flee.
    Atoms are liars, they make up everything!

  5. #445
    Deleted
    Would be awesome!

  6. #446
    People that want it gone will cry the most after 6months into the expansion, when they are tired of getting dismounted when trying to ride past packs of mobs over and over and over again...

    The only people I see that actually could like this change are the PVP-realm ones.... all us on carebear servers will miss the flying insanely.. no matter how much "yeah cool, finally!!" they post.

    Personally, no thanks, I rode in Vanilla, and it was horrible and waste of time! It might be fun the first time in the zone but after spending X days of gameplay there, you just wanna get to your destination asap, not riding around like it's 2005!

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Awbee View Post
    Do you really think that no flying will encourage them to leave the town more often? Why would it?
    Your argument is invalid. Goto any capital city and look at all the people idling on a flying mount. What, in this case, did flying do to encourage them to explore outside of the cities?

  8. #448
    Oh well, we'll see then. I wonder what will happen when people find out removing flying mounts for that expac content isn't 'the super solution to every problem in WoW' they thought it was, but just something that makes the QOL worse, and stuff more bothersome while mending none of the supposed issues.




    If they really do it, which I very much doubt.

  9. #449
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And it's quite the false parallel to say BGs and raids should be the same as the outside world.
    Why? because the outdoor world should just be a bunch of scenery without any gameplay for players at max level? What's the point of even creating a massive world if nobody has any reason to go there once they reach maximum level? They could just save all that effort in creating a massive new continent and make the game more like a Diablo-style dungeon crawler.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The point of BGs and Raids is to topple every enemy in your way and meet specific objectives.
    No reason why that gameplay needs to be restricted to instanced content; the instances are just an extension to the world, not a completely separate game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Having every single area in the outside world of WoD function like that in intent with the same degree of pointless, filler fluff mobs that the world is normally stocked with sounds like hell, frankly. The outside world isn't linear and has no objectives; nor should it. Therefore, there are no objectives to skip and no linearity to be exploited via flying mounts.
    Why do you think they designed the game like that? Perhaps because they know that players will just mount up and skip over the content?

    What do you think would happen if they designed the outdoor world with fun objective-based gameplay and obstacles which players need to encounter before they can complete those objectives; but then permitted players to skip the whole thing? That would be a huge wasted effort on their part in creating outdoor world content just for everyone to fly over it.
    Last edited by mmoc2462c4a12d; 2014-03-09 at 11:54 AM.

  10. #450
    As has been said before, it's not that flying is so convenient, it's that not flying is so INconvenient. The flight point network is incredibly slow, tedious and tiresome. It's not fun or immersive, it's an excuse to tab out and go do something else while waiting for the interminable timesink to be done with. Everything else is maximizing hearthstone CD's.

    If you're going to ax flying, you need to replace it with a more practical fast-travel network. I don't miss flying one teensy bit in GW, because its fast-travel network actually makes sense. A system of teleport waypoints you pay money to use. Double-click, poof you're there. Done. Simple. The game is immersive because I'm in the world experiencing it and what goes on around me. Not playing wait at the bus stop to go to some other area of the game so I can sit around on a premade flight path for five minutes more to get where I wanna be.

  11. #451
    glad i decided to quit when i did.

  12. #452
    Stood in the Fire Divine Path's Avatar
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    This is what I don't understand about the anti-Flyer crowd: flying mounts are OPTIONAL to use for the vast majority of the game. If you feel they deteriorate from the game experience, then simply don't use them! But why do you feel entitled to ruin the game experience for the players that enjoy them?
    Last edited by Divine Path; 2014-03-09 at 12:04 PM.
    "Come, Stormrage, and I will show you what happens to those that betray the lord of the Legion!" — Mannoroth.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Path View Post
    This is what I don't understand about the anti-Flyer crowd: flying mounts are OPTIONAL to use for the vast majority of the game. If you feel they deteriorate from the game experience, then simply [b]don't use them[b]! But why do you feel entitled to ruin the game experience for the players that enjoy them?

    Apparently, that's not an option, because that means they'll be at a disadvantage compared to random John Jenkins (the title) who doesn't give a shit about them and just flew past them on a store mount.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Valock View Post
    So what if he flys now? He doesn't say hes not, hes not being a hypocrite, hes welcoming a better solution to travelling.

    I myself loved it when ground mount was the only transport (except flight paths), but I still fly now, but I won't go full retard if I lose it, I'd welcome it with open hands. At least the world will feel x10 bigger with only ground mounts. And even better, DANGEROUS.
    More dangerous? Not really. Players will just be more prone to play stealth classes... rogues, druids, and hunters. Bypass mobs and get your quest item and turn them in, etc. Changes nothing really. Just makes things more tedious. I'm already gearing out my original Vanilla toon... my rogue. I may even gank the poor bastards that actually have to kill mobs to get to their destination.

  15. #455
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    Open World PVP died the day the introduced Battlegrounds. If you want open world pvp back - remove battlegrounds.
    It is about being vulnerable from your ride from A to B and that you know you can get jumped by other players traveling to the same place or just PvPers lurking around in bushes waiting for people to kill. =) How can this not create more world PvP/action/drame = more living world.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Geldo View Post
    [I don't care about you guys, trying to build some pressure on the devs by saying "i will unsub" gtfo, this is the same mind which creates the "Ohh i want that spell XY form class XY too" in the Class Threads, which causes "Omfg Blizz Heroic Dungeons is designed for entitled pro's or what?". You get the point? Nearly every pussy aspect which ruined the WoW Feeling day after day was introduced by blizzard after such casual-ass people whined weeks after weeks and threatened to unsub. After a few years you got to this point and now they do the same shit again. Sometimes i wish i could stick your monthly 12€ into your ass and kick you to saturn with your threatening way of arguing about stuff. Always the same bs.]

    On-Topic: The world suffers from beeing to isolated as factions, is suffers from no "danger" out there, be it some stealthing enemies or the danger of pulling some more mobs while questing. Flying encourages you to speed up everything: gathering ressources and filling the AH, botting, chainquesting like mad, finishing whole areas in a short time, never engaging enemies in pvp or defending yourself, thinking about the geostructure and using your spells and ways to get to an point in a dangerous area. I mean, think of Blade's Edge for example. Little groups of oger, you want to infiltrate this complex and kill the leader, everywhere is the possibility of an ally/horde player, engaging you while you fight, you must THINK of a way of going through in the best way without adding the hell. And how is it flying? Whooops, land in front of the door, avoid 12 goups of oger and 4 patrolgroups, go in, kill the enemy, loot your item and fly away. Wow, thats self cheating and calling it a day because of soo many quests you are able to so in such a short time. And then log in into the forum and complain about "lame quests" and content too short for you questing pro's.

    And for all my frinds complaing about "But it was in the game for so long time, why now?" I mean, a mistake doesn't get any better by doing it futher on, it gets better by chaning as fast as you can and sail into the right direction. The faster you turn from a mistake, the better it is.

    To sum up:

    -it IS better for the PvP Feeling
    -it IS better for making ressources rare
    -it IS better for making elites rare
    -it IS better for the livingness of the world

    But it is NOT better for lazy-ass behaviour and childish mimimi folks, trying to show their bullshit mounts, which were farmed long after the content was relevant (i mean i give a shit about you sitting on a'lar and trying to impress anyone)
    Your rant would be valid if we had flying the entire way through. But we don't. Cataclysm was the ONLY expansion wherein you had flying from beginning to end of the leveling content. In BC you didn't get flying until 70, in Wrath you didn't get it until 77 and in MoP you didn't get it until 90. So all this engaging questing content you talk about can still easily happen while leveling. It actually does happen in places like Timeless Isle where flying is disabled. It does NOT need to happen absolutely everywhere at every time, even after you are max level and the content is irrelevant.

  17. #457
    High Overlord Zaphiron's Avatar
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    Tbh i woudn't be to bothered about no flying in Warlords, since it's a nice way to really explorer all the different area's. While I like exploring different areas in the game, some might find it bothersome or even anoying. I guess we will have to w8 and see

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    No, if it's a big trouble to go outside people stay in the cities. Vanilla most people only went out if they need to and where in Ironforge the rest of the time.
    The world must be open and inviting and it must be better to be outside (money, gear, interesting/important things to do) than inside (cities). If the world is savage and cruel and full of monsters that kill you and you gain nothing from that you just avoid it.
    This is a VERY important point that everyone misses. Most of the people on this website assume that Vanilla was some paradise where the world was lively and populated. I doubt half the people who reminisce about the "good old days" even played back then. There is a reason we called Ironforge "Lagforge" back then, you know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lolzsec View Post
    Your argument is invalid. Goto any capital city and look at all the people idling on a flying mount. What, in this case, did flying do to encourage them to explore outside of the cities?
    Such ironic use of "Your argument is invalid". You did nothing to counter his argument; his argument wasn't that flying encouraged people to get out of cities, it was that removing flying would encourage people to stay in cities more. You mention that people idle in cities with flying mounts; if they removed flying, a LOT MORE people will be idling. This is obvious; if it becomes too inconvenient to go anywhere - more inconvenient than it is already - why would this lessen the people AFKing in cities? Logically, it would be the opposite.

  19. #459
    Legendary! Airwaves's Avatar
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    ...if this is true. If I can't use my firehawk. I am not even going to bother to come back.

    Between making heroics hard again, making healing harder, adding MORE rng elements to gear, not letting you fly till 6.1 OR the whole expansion, taking away reforging and item upgrades, making classes even easier they seem to be trying everything in there power to turn people away from the game not bring more in.
    Aye mate

  20. #460
    Deleted
    All these no-flying people seam to be forgetting about the content where Mount flight is actually the requirement to complete without getting frustrated to the point of throwing your computer out of the window.

    Take both Pet Master battles and Archaeology for instance.

    There is generally one master per zone (7 zones in WoD, same as MoP) With a flying mount it takes me about 45 to 50 mins (depending on battle rng) to complete the 7 masters in Pandaria, roughly 5 mins per fight, so just 15 to 20 mins is spent flying. Tried this with a ground mount and flight points, and it became 1½ hours, again roughly 35 mins for the pet battles themselves, but travel time was extended to almost 1 hour, and that's not mentioning the 7 or 8 times I got dazed off of my mount and forced into combat. Which at the moment is trivial but at the start of the next expac you'll be in questing greens/dungeon blues. Possibly dieing as a result and getting large repair bills as well as forking out a small fortune on the flight points (as the cost of repairs/flight points goes up with every expac).

    Then there's Archaeology. That's spread out even further than the pet battles and taking 30+ mins to travel between 2 dig sites and the fact that on most dig site you have to clear them of mobs as you go along, and again, getting dazed off of your mount and forced into unnecessary mob fights on the way resulting in yet another small fortune being spent on repairs/flight paths.


    Also try and take into consideration of all these new shared tag rare spawns that they are adding.

    For instance your traveling from the new city hub to your garrison, you get a flight path from the city hub to the closest point to it, on the way you see a shared tagged rare being killed by a group of other players, you want to join in, but guess what YOUR ON A FLIGHTPATH, there's no stopping, no cancelling, no getting off, instead you just sail past over head, unable to join in and play the game.

    But if you were on a flying mount, you could stop, you could fly down and start attacking the mob, you could have fun.

    But no, your stuck with the flight paths now. And forced everyone else to be stuck with them too. Flightpaths COMPLEATLY remove you from the gameplay experience, hell they might as well cut back on computing resouces whilst your on them and black out the screen as it's not necessary to see whats going on whilst your on one as you have no way of interacting with the gameing experience.

    And then there's the cost of flightpaths to consider which seems to go up exponentially with every expac Wrath costs a couple gold to cross the continent from one side to the other, pandaria costs about 10g, so your talking about 20/30g just to travel from one side of WoD to the other, and this adds up.

    Expecting people to ENJOY this is just blatantly idiocy at it's finest o_O

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