Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[-Superman-]

Well, Timeless Isle was just an experiment as some of the players complained about dailies. We didn't get anything in return, only ways to increase the reputation on the Isle was either grind, grind and grind or do one daily over and over. It was just an sandbox with "nothing" there to do for me.

Sure it might have been paradise for hardcore grinders who enjoy it, but not for me.

Same. People have different playstyles, and different opinions of what is fun and what is not. But ask any hardcore raider to give up the Frostbrood Vanquisher he spent MONTHS grinding for, and you will likely hear him telling you to go fuck yourself. Some people, like myself, only revisit old content specifically to grind for the flying mounts like ashes or achieve rewards. In a game with Flying mounts as rewards, it will be a HARD SELL to just pull them from the equation.

[Sjoa]

Like I've stated many times; over the course of Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria, World of Warcraft is 5 million subscribers shorter. You cannot argue the fact that this is a result of one simple fact. That fact is there has been more negative developments than theres been positive. As a result. Blizzard is firmly and nicely making several change of directions. Not flying in the relevant world just being one of them If you refuse to acknowledge this, then that is nothing more than you being stubborn and refusing to let go of something that obviously means a lot to you, but you're fighting a lost cause, it is time to let go and move on. Blizzard has bigger concerns to deal with at the moment, how many players are affected by having to gather 20 people for raid rather than 10? They fight a far bigger argument then you do. And they won't back down on the change to 20 man, so why on earth would they back down on something that affects an even smaller player base?

It's time to come to the realisation that you're fighting the bigger power here, there is no way to get this specific matter through. It is over, the decision is made. Obviously if their plan is to implement flying in 6.1. There wouldn't be a 315 page thread on mmo-champion discussing the matter. That is terrible PR for Blizzard, they wouldn't want that.

[Belisaurio]

This path takes 5 minutes just to get to the falls, 2-3 mins to fish, and another 5 mins to get back. That's 12 mins vs 6 mins. So with flying, in this example, I can complete TWICE the number of dailies in the same 8 hour window.

That's what I'm talking about. It's a bad design, because you don't recieve anything rewarding doing this same quests in ground mounts than flying mounts.
If this quests gives you some nice "things" between this two points, then you will have a lot of people wanting to explore this quests in ground mounts. Removing flying mounts only give you a better balance to design this quests.
But if you just put point A and point B, and nothing between them, then, what's the point of taking the ground mounts apart from wasting your time?

Well, Timeless Isle was just an experiment as some of the players complained about dailies. We didn't get anything in return, only ways to increase the reputation on the Isle was either grind, grind and grind or do one daily over and over. It was just an sandbox with "nothing" there to do for me.

Sure it might have been paradise for hardcore grinders who enjoy it, but not for me.

Ok.
My opinion it's that old dailys were shit, and timeless island was a good experiment, but at some point, become really boring (and like you said, a grind fest). So we can't have a generic feedback of all player-base, but we know that changing some things or taking another design-path can be productive.
Just wait and play. If they are doing a goodd job, then you will have a lot of fun, if not, you will be here with the complainers (maybe I will be here with you, don't know :S)

[-Superman-]

Like I've stated many times; over the course of Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria, World of Warcraft is 5 million subscribers shorter. You cannot argue the fact that this is a result of one simple fact. That fact is there has been more negative developments than theres been positive. As a result. Blizzard is firmly and nicely making several change of directions. Not flying in the relevant world just being one of them If you refuse to acknowledge this, then that is nothing more than you being stubborn and refusing to let go of something that obviously means a lot to you, but you're fighting a lost cause, it is time to let go and move on. Blizzard has bigger concerns to deal with at the moment, how many players are affected by having to gather 20 people for raid rather than 10? They fight a far bigger argument then you do. And they won't back down on the change to 20 man, so why on earth would they back down on something that affects an even smaller player base?

It's time to come to the realisation that you're fighting the bigger power here, there is no way to get this specific matter through. It is over, the decision is made. Obviously if their plan is to implement flying in 6.1. There wouldn't be a 315 page thread on mmo-champion discussing the matter. That is terrible PR for Blizzard, they wouldn't want that.

We are that much lower because Blizz jumped the shark with Arthas. Wrath was the most popular expansion because of WC3: The Frozen Throne. After Arthas, Deathwing and Green Jesus were hardly awesome content. As for Pandaria, despite its amazing graphics and great scenery, they tried recreating the magic with another WC3 race, and missed the mark. The only villain BIGGER than Arthas is Sargeras. Even Ilidan was not quite the monster Ner'zuhl turned Arthas into. The people started leaving when the quality of content and the big bad when downhill, and we were handing long bouts of not-so-fun raid content to hold us over. Dragon Soul and Seige of Org will likely go down in history as the to longest running and most hated of raiding content.

So, let's not pretend people left because Herp Derp Flyingz R easyz.

- - - Updated - - -

There wouldn't be a 315 page thread on mmo-champion discussing the matter. That is terrible PR for Blizzard, they wouldn't want that.

And yet they still have not commented either way on this thread, or IN it, since I know there is a Blizz employee Axirom (spelling) who lurks in these forums and responds to players on Blizz's behalf. When asked on Twitter and other social media sites about this thread, they simply blow off the question and move on to the "What's your favorite color of potato" thread.

Until they come in here personally, and tell me I am wasting my breath, I will continue to support the idea that the only OFFICIAL statement is the one on the BNet site made by a Blizz Dev and shared by a Blizz CM. As you are NEITHER, I am not required to fold my position and kowtow to your wishes.

[yeryerdude]

Repeating the same stuff over and over again for 300 pages gets tiresome, I haven't seen a compelling argument it really all boils down to "don't take my stuff away from me or I'll quit"

[-Superman-]

Repeating the same stuff over and over again for 300 pages gets tiresome, I haven't seen a compelling argument it really all boils down to "don't take my stuff away from me or I'll quit"

Usually the repeating means others fail to acknowledge everyone is entitled to their opinion, and my opinion is currently backed by official, documented statements by Blizz, not random tweets and videos.

[yeryerdude]

Usually the repeating means others fail to acknowledge everyone is entitled to their opinion, and my opinion is currently backed by official, documented statements by Blizz, not random tweets and videos.

I think you are really overstating how important an issue it is for most players, I can't think of anyone I've spoken to in game who would get upset or quit over not being able to fly, of course if its annoying an stupid thats a different story but theres no way to know that until we try the content the vocal minority seems to dominate threads like this.

[Faroth]

They should have flying from day 1 in Draenor.

But Draenor's a savage, brutal place, so there should be all kinds of things like cannons from the Iron Horde and flying creatures in the air that will shred your mount and send you falling to your death. Chance of getting from A to B without being attacked should be miniscule.

Then they gave flying, but tied in the incentive for staying on the ground to the world and expansion. The whiners can't say "they took away mah flying!!!"

(I may have tendencies of evil with this one)

[Callace]

Repeating the same stuff over and over again for 300 pages gets tiresome, I haven't seen a compelling argument it really all boils down to "don't take my stuff away from me or I'll quit"

And the other argument is what? "I trust Blizzard to radically redesign the ground world to make it fun enough for slow replay."?

It won't be any better than all the shit they let you skip with the 90 boost. "Do as I say, not as I do."

[-Superman-]

I think you are really overstating how important an issue it is for most players, I can't think of anyone I've spoken to in game who would get upset or quit over not being able to fly, of course if its annoying an stupid thats a different story but theres no way to know that until we try the content the vocal minority seems to dominate threads like this.

I am only stating how important it is to ME personally. There happen to be others who share my sentiment.

[Callace]

Draenor is being designed around not having flying mounts, where as Pandaria was designed around having them, its not the same to do it now.

If that means a better experience than we have seen before, it will be a roaring success. If that means Barrens 5.3 sans-flight x100, it will tank harder than ever before.

[-Superman-]

They should have flying from day 1 in Draenor.

But Draenor's a savage, brutal place, so there should be all kinds of things like cannons from the Iron Horde and flying creatures in the air that will shred your mount and send you falling to your death. Chance of getting from A to B without being attacked should be miniscule.

Then they gave flying, but tied in the incentive for staying on the ground to the world and expansion. The whiners can't say "they took away mah flying!!!"

(I may have tendencies of evil with this one)

You would make great points, were it not for insults like this.

[Faroth]

You would make great points, were it not for insults like this.

I don't mean to belittle those who have legit counter points as to why they don't want flying removed, but I'm willing to label those who gripe for the sake of griping as whiners.

Plus....c'mon, I just acknowledged tendencies of evil with this one. Tendencies of evil aren't my diplomatic posts.

Honestly, if I were invested in the argument, I would be more detailed on my thoughts and would be putting much more consideration into weighing, even advocating points, of both sides.

Flying or no flying is a bit moot to me. No flying works fine. I haven't missed it whatsoever in FF XIV (some definitely would be pissed having to travel back and forth though), but they do offer the ability to teleport to towns at will (small cost of money. No more than 500 for the longest distance (and 100s of thousands of "gold" is standard for average players), have the equivalent of flight paths on the ground, plus your mount.

On the other hand, flying in WoD would just be par for the course of each expansion since BC to me.

[yeryerdude]

And the other argument is what? "I trust Blizzard to radically redesign the ground world to make it fun enough for slow replay."?

It won't be any better than all the shit they let you skip with the 90 boost. "Do as I say, not as I do."

/shrug blizz made some of the best raiding content they ever have this expac (if you ignore lfr) they are getting some stuff right at least, its a risk but maybe they will get this right as well.

If you don't understand how flying can be bad for some types of content you are deluding yourself, and if your comeback is to just say "don't fly then ride around while i fly" you are deluding yourself even further.

I bet you haven't even played for a while and if you have I don't understand why you are with such a jaded and negative attitude.

[Callace]

If you don't understand how flying can be bad for some types of content you are deluding yourself, and if your comeback is to just say "don't fly then ride around while i fly" you are deluding yourself even further.

I'm not sure what this is in response to. Either you ignored what I typed, or quoted me by accident. I didn't type anything remotely close to "don't fly then ride around while i fly". I don't agree with that anyway. If you're going to have a conversation with yourself, don't quote me.

- - - Updated - - -

The underlying problem behind this entire argument is this: It already takes a certain level of desperation to play a ten year old game to begin with. When some people want the game to artificially slow down the replay, that is too much desperation for some, but not enough for others. I don't want flying removed any more than I want to crawl around on the ground with my teeth, eat the insects and foliage, rub my tongue against the woodwork, and fight mobs with a spoon. There is a line in the sand where hardcore becomes deranged. Fighting every mob in the game as a timesink, not a reward, is about as fun as washing your hands 50 times in a row. Although I realize there are a lot of people posting here that get off on that.

edit: I realize how harsh that is. But I don't have faith in them putting in the effort to make it work. It won't be as simple as flipping the switch.

[TyrianFC]

Frankly, I think they're still testing the waters. They obviously want to go through with it. But they're obviously also under a lot of pressure to hold off the decision for so long.

For sure. I think its fair to say Blizzard would love to remove or severely restrict flying, but are treading very deliberately and carefully in any attempts to move in that direction. They are definitely testing the waters.

This thread also serves for them to pre-emptively gather feedback so people cant use certain arguments against no-flying when it goes live. (eg - flight paths take the scenic route = theyve said they have directly addressed this and will fix it, eg - flight paths are too far/far between/inefficient = theyve said there will be an extensive FP network and up to a better standard than previous expansions, eg - players worried about efficienty of herb/orb gathering = theyve said professions will be balanced around this).

Ironically, the people complaining about no-flying here giving various reasons, are actually fueling for a better implementation of the feature itself, which will lead to better overall community acceptance once live, and (hopefully) encourage Blizzard to delay/restrict even further.

[Callace]

For sure. I think overall, in Blizzard, they'd love to remove or severely restrict flying. And the 'delay' is definitely testing the waters for community sentiment, reaction, feedback.

This thread also serves for them to pre-emptively gather feedback so people cant use certain arguments against no-flying when it goes live. (eg - flight paths take the scenic route = theyve said they have directly addressed this and will fix it, eg - flight paths are too far/far between/inefficient = theyve said there will be an extensive FP network and up to a better standard than previous expansions, eg - players worried about efficienty of herb/orb gathering = theyve said professions will be balanced around this).

Ironically, the people complaining about no-flying here giving various reasons, are actually fueling for a better implementation of the feature itself, which will lead to better overall community acceptance once live, and (hopefully) encourage Blizzard to delay/restrict even further.

Implementation really is everything. If they do a good job with it, and are very thoughtful of their execution, it will be great, I'm sure. If it's a repeat of 5.3, public relations will not keep anyone playing.

edit: I also agree that they are gathering information from here to help frame their announcements. I think they use feedback without necessarily catering to it.

[Deleted]

About some thoughts on this matter.

[-Superman-]

On the other hand, flying in WoD would just be par for the course of each expansion since BC to me.

For me as well.

[Ordinator]

About some thoughts on this matter.

Very good points in this. Especially the "exploitive exploration" one. I met a lot of my friends in wow because we were doing that kind of thing together for fun and its absolutely not even a part of the game anymore.