Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Sunseeker]

Now that's a good question. Can't answer that one. I suppose the only way to even begin answering it is by asking how many players don't go into the open world for any reason once they hit max level.

Anti-flyers have, throughout several threads said that players will always take the path of least resistance, which is really applicable to humans in general. So if Blizzard wants to encourage WPVP, bring back danger, slow down content consumption and get people interacting in the world, it seems silly to overlook the fact that people can avoid all that by sitting in town all day. But yes, we don't know exactly how many people never (or infrequently enough to be statistically the same) leave town, but I suspect its fairly high.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both dungeons gated by completion of zone story quests. IE: the summoning stone and instance don't even become reachable until you have followed the story up to what it takes to defeat the hordes of enemies in front of the gate. This would make it impossible to sit around in town and dungeon all day before you hit max level, and would achieve all their goals as well.

[Dragoncurry]

Lol there's no error. Nayaga said explicitly that those who want flying gone should not dictate how he (Nayaga) plays the game. When individuals responded to him (Nayaga) that he should not view WoW as "his game" he responded,

"No "don't tell me how to play the game" does not equate to "it's my game" you are jumping the a conclusion you feel you can negate.

Except, it does. No one is telling you how to play the game. Blizzard is focusing on ground content in lieu of flying. If you believe that they shouldn't do that, then you are making a claim to their game. In fact, if you want to play the game how you want, then go ahead and do so in the older zones.


You can play the game however you want, you can do PvP and Pet Battles all you want. I'm not interested in those things, but I will not demand you stop doing it. I NEVER said "it's my game", each of us can enjoy the aspect of the game we like."

No we cannot. I can't PvP someone on a PvE server, and I can't fly in Throne of Thunder. I can no longer do 40 man raids because they no longer exist, etc. I simply cannot, and it has nothing to do with you demanding anything. Blizzard simply changed the game on me, and that's their right because they own the game itself.

What you don't understand through your stubborn arguments is a simple thing: "NO ONE IS TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO. We're simply defending a decision Blizzard made, and if anyone is making it personal, it's you. There are reasons against flying that you are choosing to ignore because you are making it personal, and thus...you're making a claim to something that doesn't belong to you even if you do enjoy it."

Calling people fanboys isn't helping your case either, and no one is misunderstanding you. You have an inability to understand the implications of your own arguments and they circle back to bite you in the ass and you don't even know why.

1) Risk and boring are two different conversations
2) You don't understand that
3) We're not going to keep retyping why that is the case to you because you simply don't acknowledge it

Just move on, this is my last response to you, just know that you're in the wrong here, on a logical level.

[hotmess]

Thanks for being super condescending. Believe it or not, there are people who do more than queue for LFR that like to fly. My husband and I run a raiding guild. We killed normal Garrosh back in December, so while we're not hardcore, we're certainly not casual LFR heroes who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. We're at least a little bit above average. We want to fly. Flying gives a new perspective on things. It allows one to explore in ways that are not possible on the ground. I can certainly accept not flying while leveling (though I think Storm Peaks and Icecrown show that flying while leveling can be done well if the devs aren't just being lazy), but once I've done that content, I've done it. Why should I have to take forever to go where I want (and if I'm on a flight path, not be able to change my mind midway) once I've done all that? What possible gain is there? And if we're going to talk about Timeless Isle stuff, TI is stupid. WoW is not a platformer and I do not want to have to do jumping puzzles in a game whose jumping and movement controls are as mushy as WoW's are.

If flying "makes things easy," that's on the devs. There's all kinds of things they can do to make things hard, but they choose not to. Flying just makes things less tedious, gives a new perspective on things, allows exploration from another angle and a chance to appreciate the art from a closer angle, and I find it fun. The first thing I do whenever I level a character up is buy their flying. Not equip the masses of gear I've made them, not pick my 90 talent, not pick up quests or dailies or do my farm-I buy my flying. It's been an integrated part of the game for over seven years now. Removing it for the foreseeable future in new content or forever is stupid and the reasons that have been touted by Blizzard are straw men that show their laziness. As for world pvp, if it's that big a deal for it (though I have my doubts there-I remember chasing people down on flying mounts in Wrath and gleefully laughing as I knocked them off and used my parachute to live while they splatted, and that was obviously before the turtle shell), fine, disable it for pvp servers, but don't punish the rest of us because gankers want to gank.

What matters the most, IMO, is how they actually design the new world. If they design the world from a ground perspective, then perhaps not flying won't be some "OMG X_X" type of situation. Yeah, flying makes things faster and easier (easier meaning less tedious) but that's based on everything right now. Zones in TBC, Wrath, Cata and MoP were made with flying in mind.

I'm more annoyed with people getting so frustrated over everything before they even try it. They (the devs) even said they want to make more flight paths and smarter ones at that, so maybe traveling to and from won't be this big problem that everyone is making it. Maybe the world WILL feel better. Maybe everything people are crying about won't be as bad as they said. It's the same thing with Garrisons and the removal of stuff from LFR. People complain and cry but....we haven't seen any of this in action yet. On paper some of it may sound bad to some people, but... uh.. how about we wait and see?

But if someone wants to stop playing this game simply because they can't farm mats faster or whatever, then whatever. Really. There should be SOME level of time sink to this game. No, I'm not advocating it taking 15 minutes to get from point A to point B, I'm just saying that it shouldn't take 30 seconds. (Unless you're a mage <3 <3 )

[Nayaga]

No, I can't change what you wrote. If I am interpreting it wrong, it might be user error on either of our ends. That doesn't mean "someone change your post or what you wrote."

I didnt say you changed my post or what I wrote. I said you reword what I said in your post claim I meant abc, when I meant dfg.

[Deleted]

Bloody hell, people are still faffing about this topic with their ridiculous conspiracy theories?
"They want to led it slide, they won't announce it's removal, and they'll never announce reintroduction."
Why don't they just design it in cardboard cutout like they did in vanilla
"Safety Net"
So they anticipated they might have to go back on their decision?
"Yeah man, uprising, riot with pitchforks and torches."

Look, I'll lay the truth out there for everyone: They gain fuck all by straight up lying to your face. They have come out, before the game is even in public testing, flat out stating/announcing that Flying on Draenor will not be in the game, not until 6.1, possibly not at all during the expansion's life time.
They've already announced their decision.

Seriously, sometimes I stop wondering when people will just stop bitching, complaining, snorting some serious crack to get to these retarded conclusions and theories.
If you don't like it, don't buy the game. Done. Perhaps state your reasons.
If you truly believe the bullshit you are spouting here, I would suggest a psychiatrist. Because that sounds like a serious problem.

I will defend my ground and side with the age old statement:
"What people claim they want is often not what is usually best for them." A heroine addict wants his heroine, but needless to say, it isn't good for him.
As a game designer, your job is to figure out what players need, rather than what they claim they want. The same is true with LFR no longer awarding tier gear. People are throwing hissyfits now, and then will find themselves actually venturing into normal raiding come the expansion, from LFR, and enjoy the experience.

[Pyromelter]

Bloody hell, people are still faffing about this topic with their ridiculous conspiracy theories?

Bottom line is that flying is one of the most immensely popular features of wow, and your analogy is way off base, removing flying from wow is more akin to removing power windows on cars (ie it's a convenience = fun thing, not an addictive substance = fun thing).

[Deleted]

Bottom line is that flying is one of the most immensely popular features of wow, and your analogy is way off base, removing flying from wow is more akin to removing power windows on cars (ie it's a convenience = fun thing, not an addictive substance = fun thing).

It's more like removing a dishwasher from your home. You don't need it. It is a needless convenience and technically the world would be a better world without dishwashers, they're bad for the environment and you miss out on some great dishwashing experiences and conversations with your family if you have one.
Not having a dishwashers enriches your family and day to day life. Similarly how not having a flying mount will do the same for the World (of warcraft) and player experiences.

Ofcourse, if you come in and take someone's dishwasher away, they'll be bitching, and they'll complain it for a day or two, but then they settle in the life style again, and everything is as nothing ever happened. Same will happen with flying mounts.

Yes, I've made this ridiculous analogy before. And it is still more accurate than any analogy made in this topic ever. The fact you even point out my drug addict analogy was stupid kind of concerns me.
I didn't even put flying analogous to heroine. I put the whining of people in this topic analogous to the behaviour of a recovering drug addict.

[Lumineus]

More like whatever idiot politician came up with the idea to ban dishwashers would be swarmed by a mob of angry mothers, beaten to death with dirty casserole pans, and left to rot in a ditch somewhere.

[Deleted]

Anti-flyers have, throughout several threads said that players will always take the path of least resistance, which is really applicable to humans in general. So if Blizzard wants to encourage WPVP, bring back danger, slow down content consumption and get people interacting in the world, it seems silly to overlook the fact that people can avoid all that by sitting in town all day. But yes, we don't know exactly how many people never (or infrequently enough to be statistically the same) leave town, but I suspect its fairly high.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both dungeons gated by completion of zone story quests. IE: the summoning stone and instance don't even become reachable until you have followed the story up to what it takes to defeat the hordes of enemies in front of the gate. This would make it impossible to sit around in town and dungeon all day before you hit max level, and would achieve all their goals as well.

They tried that in early Cata and it backfired, players intentionally avoided certain instances by not discovering them on the world map... ^_^

[metatation]

More like whatever idiot politician came up with the idea to ban dishwashers would be swarmed by a mob of angry mothers, beaten to death with dirty casserole pans, and left to rot in a ditch somewhere.

We needz moar metaphorz!!!!

[Pyromelter]

The way to bring back WPvP is Wintergrasp. A resource-rich pvp contested zone where flying is allowed except for active faction battle, where low level players can contribute via siege engines during the battle. This gives people a positive motivation to battle, as opposed to trying nagging people into battle by removing flying.

Give people a reason to fight, don't ground them in quest zones and hope they fight.

It's more like removing a dishwasher from your home. You don't need it. It is a needless convenience and technically the world would be a better world without dishwashers, they're bad for the environment and you miss out on some great dishwashing experiences and conversations with your family if you have one.
Not having a dishwashers enriches your family and day to day life. Similarly how not having a flying mount will do the same for the World (of warcraft) and player experiences.

Ofcourse, if you come in and take someone's dishwasher away, they'll be bitching, and they'll complain it for a day or two, but then they settle in the life style again, and everything is as nothing ever happened. Same will happen with flying mounts.

Yes, I've made this ridiculous analogy before. And it is still more accurate than any analogy made in this topic ever. The fact you even point out my drug addict analogy was stupid kind of concerns me.
I didn't even put flying analogous to heroine. I put the whining of people in this topic analogous to the behaviour of a recovering drug addict.

And if we're really going metaphors, imagine if we could only drive cars and trains, and all airplanes were completely outlawed/grounded. Would not having airplanes enrich your life?

Your drug addict analogy was the analogy you used bub. I can guarantee you if every world government suddenly grounded every single plane on the earth, the outcry would be similar in nature, but probably far worse. Would people just all the sudden "settle in the life style again" of not having airplanes? Your analogy is not only wrong, it's total utter BS, and yeah, I'm concerned I responded to you as well, since your statement is so widely off base I shouldn't even be giving it any credence with a response.

[Sweetpeaz]

It's more like removing a dishwasher from your home. You don't need it. It is a needless convenience and technically the world would be a better world without dishwashers, they're bad for the environment and you miss out on some great dishwashing experiences and conversations with your family if you have one.
Not having a dishwashers enriches your family and day to day life. Similarly how not having a flying mount will do the same for the World (of warcraft) and player experiences.

Ofcourse, if you come in and take someone's dishwasher away, they'll be bitching, and they'll complain it for a day or two, but then they settle in the life style again, and everything is as nothing ever happened. Same will happen with flying mounts.

Yes, I've made this ridiculous analogy before. And it is still more accurate than any analogy made in this topic ever. The fact you even point out my drug addict analogy was stupid kind of concerns me.
I didn't even put flying analogous to heroine. I put the whining of people in this topic analogous to the behaviour of a recovering drug addict.

You are trying really hard to talk yourself into your position. No analogies here...games are supposed to be fun, and fun is subjective. What one person enjoys another may not, that's why choice is great.

If my choice is to enjoy WoW with no flight, or don't pay any longer, I will choose to not pay. If I can fly, explore this sandbox in the manner I have been able for the past 7+ years of flight! I will gladly pony up my $14.99 a month.

[Nayaga]

No, I can't change what you wrote. If I am interpreting it wrong, it might be user error on either of our ends. That doesn't mean "someone change your post or what you wrote."

Ok, I'm off my iPhone for forum usage now. This is a prime example of you changing what I said. I didn't say you changed my post, only I or a moderator can change my post. You reworded what I said so that it's possible to refute it.

Here is another example. You say something I said "equates to" an interpretation your part, and your interpretation is wrong. Again you rephrase what I've said to the statement can be refuted.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post27366336

I never said "its my game." You rephrased what I said incorrectly.

I know you will deny this too, I don't think you are really interested in a real debate or understanding others points of view or how we want to play the game. If you where really interested, you would read this and understand where many in the pro-fly crowd are coming from.

In one sense you are right, flying mounts are not necessary. By the same token, neither are ground mounts or run speed vs walking. We could play the game without ground mounts, we did so levels 1 through 40 in Vanilla. All are methods of travel, each step faster than the next. I enjoyed the game more when I got my first ground mount at level forty, just like I enjoyed the game more when I got my first flying mount. Why? Faster travel allows us to get to the content we enjoy faster. No I don't want to skip content while leveling, there should be no flying while leveling and clearing all zones (IMO).

Also, this is a video game, we play it to have fun. Removing flight removes part of the fun in the game for me and many others. Remove enough fun things in the game and people unsubscribe. Removing flight is just one more nail in the coffin for many of us.

[Rankin]

No, that was Blizzard. You made the claim otherwise.

If you actually played the game, you'd know that most quests require more than just swooping in and killing one mob or looting one item. And that even when you do get "swoop" quests, they're typically part of a group of quests that require more than just swooping.

And while you might not have originally made the claim, you stood by it without questioning the validity of the claim. But you have no problem questioning other people when they have a problem with it.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I didnt say you changed my post or what I wrote. I said you reword what I said in your post claim I meant abc, when I meant dfg.

I don't think I have done any of that.

- - - Updated - - -

Bottom line is that flying is one of the most immensely popular features of wow, and your analogy is way off base, removing flying from wow is more akin to removing power windows on cars (ie it's a convenience = fun thing, not an addictive substance = fun thing).

I've literally never heard anyone say power windows are fun .. but whatever.

Its actually more like not allowing 2015 Cadillacs to have a "Beverage cooler" in the glove box because it causes too many problems. No one is going back and taking away old "beverage coolers," or allowing you to buy a previous model to get that "beverage cooler."

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, I'm off my iPhone for forum usage now. This is a prime example of you changing what I said. I didn't say you changed my post, only I or a moderator can change my post. You reworded what I said so that it's possible to refute it.

Here is another example. You say something I said "equates to" an interpretation your part, and your interpretation is wrong. Again you rephrase what I've said to the statement can be refuted.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post27366336

I never said "its my game." You rephrased what I said incorrectly.

I know you will deny this too, I don't think you are really interested in a real debate or understanding others points of view or how we want to play the game. If you where really interested, you would read this and understand where many in the pro-fly crowd are coming from.

I even said "it equates to" .. I didn't reword a thing. I didn't change what you said. I even quoted exactly what you said in my response. Its not being dishonest. I'm not hiding the truth to make you look dumb. Those are the same meanings.

- - - Updated - - -

If you actually played the game, you'd know that most quests require more than just swooping in and killing one mob or looting one item. And that even when you do get "swoop" quests, they're typically part of a group of quests that require more than just swooping.

And while you might not have originally made the claim, you stood by it without questioning the validity of the claim. But you have no problem questioning other people when they have a problem with it.

Well, not, these threads are predicated on challenging a change Blizzard has made. If you are trying to challenge that, you need to have a good argument with any proof to your claims. Blizzard stated that, and someone else claimed that Blizzard was wrong about the amount of quests that you can "swoop in on." THAT PERSON that made the claim needs to bring the proof, not me.

Yes, I've played this game since '05. Fying makes most things way easier, from swooping in, to skipping things, to going over gauntlets etc. If the devs and artists build a small fort around 'Big Bad Boss Mod' .. with a small gauntlet, and guards, and traps and whatnot, and you just skip over it on your flying mount... you've essentially invalidated all that design. They might as well not make things like that anymore.

Think about the dailies at the Niuzao Temple, where you're battling bugs.. you have to help guards and pick up stones and destroy their little armored things.. you can skip so many battles by just swooping around and skipping them. I think Blizzard is upset because it wasn't designed to just skip all those mobs. Why even put them there if they are being skipped often? They would need to add "Kill ten Guards" every time. Wow has a lot of these.. help allies, collect quests.. and flying mounts let you flat out avoid many enemies because you can just fly over them.

[quras]

It's more like removing a dishwasher from your home. You don't need it.SNIP.

Incorrect. With a dishwaher I get to spend more time with my family and doing the "parent" thing more often. SHould that be spending time iwth the kids or wife. Getting to the more entertaining things faster.


What removing flying is similar to is Disney removing fast pass in their theme parks.

Sure, Disney could make you spend more time standing in line. Wasting the limited time you get to spend in the park as it is but WTF! Thats not fun. Disney knows it and you know it. No amount of buiness PR vomit would make me beleive blizzard knows best. Apparently, you are another one of the nuts that think blizzard is the only people that know what fun is. You would be wrong as well.

The reason you are there is to ride the rides, not F'ing stand in line for longer periods.

Similar to flying in a theme park video game. Gamers should not be held back in experiencing the "rides" in the game. Getting from "A" to "B" so you can experience whats at B should be a quick travel. There is no reason to make it longer especially at max level. Gamers should be able to get to "B" and experience the "fun" aspect of whatever is sending them there. Not waste their limited play time trying to get to "B"

This is a theme park game. We play the game to ride the rides and stand in line as little as possible with our already limit amount of time in the park. Lets not support longer lines just because blizzard fed you some PR BS.

[Nayaga]

I even said "it equates to" .. I didn't reword a thing. I didn't change what you said. I even quoted exactly what you said in my response. Its not being dishonest. I'm not hiding the truth to make you look dumb. Those are the same meanings.

Equates to means equal to, which they are not. You rephrased my statement in a way that allows you to refute it.

I never said "its my game." You rephrased what I said incorrectly. Stop rephrasing what I've said. You are now just harassing me.

[gamingmuscle]

So I see this is still going. And shocker it's still a battle of "I like it this way" vs "I like it that way"

Not that I expect that they have, but has blizzard clarified their stance at all with some more reasoning behind the direction change?

[Nayaga]

So I see this is still going. And shocker it's still a battle of "I like it this way" vs "I like it that way"

Not that I expect that they have, but has blizzard clarified their stance at all with some more reasoning behind the direction change?

Yes they have clarified their stance and reasoning, but they also said they wanted feedback on no flight for WoD. They said "wait and see" if flying is added to WoD based on customer feedback. We are giving that feedback and debating the pros and cons of their stance and reasoning. That's what this section of the forum is all about "Warlords of Draenor - General Discussions". We are hear to discuss an expansion yet to be released.

[gamingmuscle]

Yes they have clarified their stance and reasoning, but they also said they wanted feedback on no flight for WoD. They said "wait and see" if flying is added to WoD based on customer feedback. We are giving that feedback and debating the pros and cons of their stance and reasoning. That's what this section of the forum is all about "Warlords of Draenor - General Discussions". We are hear to discuss an expansion yet to be released.

I have been in this thread and the others. I was busy over the weekend, and didn't bother looking.

So where is this clarification, cause if you mean that post about storming an inadequately guarded fortress...that wasn't one.