Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Dragoncurry]

I find them boring now because they're static and I've done them a dozen times. I'm not sure how you can find the same quest to kill the same mob the same number of times engaging every single time.

If you look at the thread that Bacon started about what stealth class to roll, you will notice a LOT of people in that thread go "I will murder them/stab them/blah blah".

Like I two shot those mobs, it feels good to wreck something with my giant hammers. Im' sure mages and locks that do 500K a chaos bolt and drop meteors on mfckers enjoy it even more.

[Durantye]

I guess that I'm just bored with WoW because I don't find the content challenging or interesting. I killed Garrosh eleventy-billion times on LFR (different discussion boys) and while it may be more challenging on other modes, it's still just killing Garrosh and that was never that interesting to me to start with. TI farming isn't challenging or interesting and the rest of the crap out in the world isn't either.

There's a point where "wrecking shit" just isn't enough.

The fun isn't in the fact you killed him but the journey to do it, it doesn't surprise me at all you're bored with LFR Garrosh. People don't raid heroic just to see a different colored face of garrosh admit defeat they do it because the fights and mechanics getting there are what is fun. The feeling of 25 people finally clicking together in a fight like Siegecrafter where every single person holds a great deal of weight on their back, and then seeing him fall into the sub 1m and realizing he's dead. I don't know your fully history but if you have only done LFR I highly encourage you to at least try your hand at real raiding next expansion. (mythic) Then if you don't like it that is fine but at least you'll have tried, but killing Garrosh on a new difficulty is far from 'still killing garrosh'.

[Deleted]

He asked what I do with flying. I answered. I would do SIMILAR activities on Draenor, were flying not being held up by the dickheads and Blizz HQ and championed by white knights like yourself. So, he got my answer. When we get flying in WoD, I will do very similar activities from that list in the Draenor zones as well. As for being retarded, only a retard would assume people who are passionate about flying actually give a fuck about Vanilla - MoP where they can still fly. Let me spell it out since this is a tough one for you, and the others like you:

When we talk about flying, we are talking about Draenor zones. When we say what we use flying for, we intend to use flying for similar activities in Draenor zones, whether we NEED a flying mount or not, is irrelevant. We WANT flying mounts in Draenor zones.

Does that spell it out for you? Or should I call in an Elementary School Teacher to put it on flash cards for your stupid ass?

- - - Updated - - -



One more time for the obviously tough to teach:

Flying is part of MY gameplay. MY gameplay is the experience I make for MYSELF with the content Blizzard provides. When I hit level cap, if I want to fly the fuck over trash mobs just to farm ore, I will fly the fuck over trash mobs to farm ore. If I want to fly the fuck over trash mobs to do ANYTHING on the list I provided, I will mount up and fly the fuck over everything on that list. How I play MY game in Azeroth is up to me. When Blizz adds flying back in with 6.1, I will go back to doing whatever the fuck I please for MY gameplay... not yours.

Hopefully that made sense. Otherwise, I can get the same bitch who will explain it to Ordinator to explain it to you too.

- - - Updated - - -



My guess... both.

And a reminder for the little child who wants anything on his terms....in a MMO.

Often, basing a game around the wants of a spoilt child is not a good design. It may surprise you to know its not about what you want its about whats good for the game. Your idea of gameplay revolves around avoiding gameplay.

[markos82]

A vast vast majority won't quit either way. So they aren't "gambling" 50% of their subs.

With that logic I hope you dont work in some company that is generation lots o money. Every lost sub is a loss of money, so if they lose even 10% its a loss of money + not to mention how many players would ask for refund considering they cant use their flying mount they purchased from store.
I also bet that few times less players would quit if they bring back flying in 6.1 then remove it for good

[shadowmouse]

No one forces you to kill low level mobs, because those are very likely to not even aggro due to the level difference.

Except Blizz does. Archaeology? Yes, half your fragments are under a mob's patrol. Quests? Well, if you do Anglers rep, they keep sending you where tigers keep walking into you. Doing pet battle dailies? Say hello to the foxes that camp the mob in v4w. I just did all these things last night and the level difference didn't matter. There are points in questing where -- once the initial rush of leveling has passed -- you're constantly having to dance around or kill mobs that should be fleeing for their lives. Yes, they die before I finish my rotation, but it becomes an annoyance like the mobs infesting my farm. Hey, I just nuked everything in this area when I tilled it, I have pest control, why are a third of my plots re-infested with vermin and hawks when I turn around to plant? Timeless? It must be, otherwise I've killed enough tigers to make them extinct in six alternate universes.

Killing mobs is part of the game and part of the leveling process. Having that lighten up is one of the signs you've hit level cap and can stop "kill ten pigs" stuff. No flying during the first part of an expansion is standard enough, but their constant reliance on no flying to make me run in spirals does get old. It feels like they learned on side scrollers and can't move past that kind of thinking.

[Vaelorian]

I say to all pro and con flying: Wait and see how it works out in WoD.

You can scream at the top of your internet lungs if you don't like it or really DO like it.

The thing I gathered most from thee 514 pages is that people THINK they know what they want, but actually don't. And this is not just about this thread either.

Sometimes having some convenience removed makes for better gameplay/better experience/more immersion.

I agree that taking away HGWT sucked. If they just redesigned it towards: Can only be used while in raid instances, my guess would be a LARGE part would have been happy.

I used to be a pro-flyer. I couldn't wait until TBC hit the shelves so I could finally fly. The moment I took off even on my "hamstringed" 60% flying mount was so awesome. I felt no longer hindered by bounderies, could go wherever I wanted to.

The moment I got my flying mount also happened way waaaay past me reaching level 70. Why? Well I was a holy paladin. Dual specs weren't there yet. "Grinding" on a holy paladin was pretty exhausting to say the least. In fact sometimes I would respec to Retri (costed me 50 gold x 2 to respec back, which was a lot) and then start grinding. I would actually make some decent amount of cash. But still it was damn hard. Finally gotten myself to 6000gold (1k for training? and 5k for the mount?) and so I rushed to the epic mount vendor. My god, this was even better then getting my epic charger from the paladin quest (feeling of riding).

But when WOTLK came along and especially in Cata I started realising that riding around just like in Vanilla, was actually a good thing. I had so much more adventures. Came across so many people. While since flying I more or less had only contact with guildies or friends I already made during TBC and Vanilla. I am not saying flying alone is the culprit here. The queue/teleport option and queueing up with total strangers from another server, is a HUGE part of that too. But flying is too. No doubt.

Anyway you need to realise that while some features are awesome, you sometimes cannot oversee what you are actually giving up to have that feature. Especially players.

No Flying would have impact in a lot of ways:
1. could impact on the economy (less people might be willing to grind for the AH / nodes)
Then again, maybe not. Maybe Blizzard will make more spawnpoints and getting nodes would be equally easy to get as now. You do not know!

2. Getting around is easier with flying
You do not know that for a fact. Blizzard might design the open world in such a way that there will be more teleports. Riding to a teleporter might be just as fast as flying towards your goal. Still riding on the ground makes for more immersion. I am not saying that flying does not give any immersion. I am saying riding gives MORE immersion. But this might be a personal preference.

3. Less danger is more efficient
Yes true. If you have flying, you do not get killed = less downtime. Great game you play though. Playing it safe. I thought everyone played this game to be at times freaked out that you might not come out alive every once in a while. And that amazing feeling when you actually do make it. Or you actually learned to avoid such situations.

Shall I continue?

Flying is not THE bane of the game. But it is certainly part of why people sometimes long for Vanilla. Now I would not mind personally if they give flying to us at some point during WoD. But I would certainly want to see how it works out for sometime LONGER then just reaching max level.

I'll wait and see before screaming my lungs out and lashing out against everyone who does not agree with me.

[shadowmouse]

PVP has much to answer for. In PVP, we are the mobs.

I am, however, one of those who play on a PVE server and I've made a specific choice to do so. Half of the people I will encounter while riding about are the opposite faction. The game is specifically designed so that I can't interact much with them. I'm on a PVE server for a reason (I hate PVP), so I'm not going to flag and I'm not interested in dueling them.

Much of the rest of the time, it is somebody killing the same quest mobs or racing for the same node. They don't really chat much. If ground mounts somehow enhance your experience, fine, ride them. I actually don't bother to mount most of the time that I'm questing, but I don't find it enhances my overall gaming experience -- I simply find mounting and dismounting annoying.

[markos82]

Flying is not THE bane of the game. But it is certainly part of why people sometimes long for Vanilla. Now I would not mind personally if they give flying to us at some point during WoD. But I would certainly want to see how it works out for sometime LONGER then just reaching max level.

I'll wait and see before screaming my lungs out and lashing out against everyone who does not agree with me.

I would really love to see how many players that played during vanilla still play today and to provide a screenshot as a prof. Also I dont long for Vanilla because I couldn't fly, I long for Vanilla because it was much more harder and killing a boss required brains...And don't mind posting my here.....

[khalltusk]

I would really love to see how many players that played during vanilla still play today and to provide a screenshot as a prof. Also I dont long for Vanilla because I couldn't fly, I long for Vanilla because it was much more harder and killing a boss required brains...And don't mind posting my here.....

I did and you can tell by my feats of strength on my armoury

Vanilla was not harder just grindier (grinding money was a long process grinding for raid materials yada yada yada). And as for bosses dont make me laugh, until you got to the end of BWL or into AQ40/20 maybe some on ZG the bosses were very simple.

[Bacon is the Answer]

A vast vast majority won't quit either way. So they aren't "gambling" 50% of their subs.

Let's take an honest look at things. Let's assume 50% of the players love flying. of that 50%, 90% are casuals. Not a far stretch since most of the game is dominated by casual players these days. So 50% = 3.5M. That means, 3,150,000 players are casuals who love flying. From that, 100% of players find out there is no flying at 100. So, 2% get pissed and unsub. That's only 70K people. The rest just laugh and assume flying comes back in 6.1, and they are right. Now, let's assume, they are wrong. 6.1 hits, patch notes are there, but what's this? No flying still? Can't be right. So they open a ticket to report a bug that the flying trainer is still not responsive. They really want to ride that new Draenor mount they purchased for Christmas in Frostfire Ridge, or up to Karabor. So they open a ticket, only to find out that:

"Recent data has shown that players have been enjoying flying so much, we've decided to wait and see even longer." Another 2% - fuck that, and unsub. 6.2 comes, same thing. 6.3 same thing. By 6.4, not only are casuals unsubbing over no flying, but hardcores are unsubbing in between patches, vanilla lovers are unsubbing because it is still not vanilla, and some wrath players are unsubbing because they gave it a try but Arthas > All. Now, another 10% of casual fliers have left the game, and unrelated another 10% from the other camp. Now, Blizz is down 20% of it's paying customers. 1.4M people gone. By the end of the last patch, we always end up losing more, so make it the even 3M we lost, just like we did with MoP.

The question is, if we know the game is getting old, and will continue to bleed subs until it goes free-to-play, why take a gamble with 1/2 of your playerbase on a "hunch"? Particularly an unnecessary one. They will lose MORE than they ever stood to gain. I know, we sound like fanatics when talking like this, but people in our same shoes have tried to warn others like them in the past, only to be shushed. The engineer who warned the Star Lines about the number of lifeboats vs the number of passengers, was overlooked because Titanic was "unsinkable". Levy support in New Orleans was skipped over because "the city has been here almost 200 years, and never flooded". Federal reports started coming in as early as 1996 about Al Quieda activity and threats against specific financial and government targets in the US, and when 9/11 happened, people were thinking "Oh shit. They were serious?"

No flying is by no means as important as either of those examples, they are merely representations of being warned before time about the potential for a major catastrophe. Now, my numbers were just rough guesstimates. But, if we are brutally honest, we could lose as few as 300 people, or as many as 3.5M.

[Nayaga]

But Draenor will be very much in the TI model, so you're probably going to hate it too?

Some people loved TI, I didn't. It makes sense for Blizzard to create some of the content that way, just not all of the content. I think that is a mistake.

The idea of removing flying is exactly the opposite, it's to keep you in the world rather than flying over it.

Blizzard says one of their goals with the removal of light is to get people out in the world. Problem is, people will always find a way to skip what they find boring or no fun. The same thing will happen here. No-flying for many of us sucks, it will push some people back in to cities and garrisons to play the game from a queue. This does not get people back into the world.

Others like me that still want to do outside content like achievements, pet battles, archaeology, ore, herbs, skinning, exploring, pet collecting, dailies and fishing. We will not spend our time on the ground unless we have to. We will use flight taxi instead. As I said and you have missed, "unfortunately flight taxi offer zero ability to interact or get oneself immersed in content. On a personal flying mount, if something interesting appears, I can swoop down for fun interaction and immersion in the world. With taxis I will be afk, talk about compelling content! "

I use FPs all the time, even right now. Click button then alt tab. Difference is once you get to the destination you can't bunny hop right to your objective and skip everything in between, or bypass ingame barriers designed to wall off content.

When I bunny hop I am participating in content in the world, when you alt tab on a taxi you are not interacting with the world.

[Sweetpeaz]

I would really love to see how many players that played during vanilla still play today and to provide a screenshot as a prof. Also I dont long for Vanilla because I couldn't fly, I long for Vanilla because it was much more harder and killing a boss required brains...And don't mind posting my here.....

I played the as well. I don't have screenshots though, because my computer that they were on died years ago. I can tell you however, that killing a boss, while at times difficult (especially in AQ), the most challenging part of a raid was getting 39 other people in line.

Boss mechanics are orders of magnitude more difficult today than they were back then.

Let's talk about TBC. There weren't hard modes, most of it was hard. This was the glory day of raiding I feel. They had a huge number of raids open for people, and it was up to you to beat them. I raided for all of TBC and never made it to sunwell and never felt cheated in the least.

Flight is a quality of life issue. Quality of life issues are big deals whether they matter to you or not.

[Nayaga]

I'll wait and see before screaming my lungs out and lashing out against everyone who does not agree with me.

It's fine for you to "wait and see", that is your choice. Do we all have to feel and act like you or can we have our own opinions?

There has been "screaming" done on both sides of this issue. Flying is a highly contentious issue, peoples emotions will come out.

[Bacon is the Answer]

And a reminder for the little child who wants anything on his terms....in a MMO.

Often, basing a game around the wants of a spoilt child is not a good design. It may surprise you to know its not about what you want its about whats good for the game. Your idea of gameplay revolves around avoiding gameplay.

Blizz made the game. They gave us the toys. Now they want to take them back because : The toys have always been broken. Really? Why give them to us in the first place. In fact, why buy us a full sized battery powered ride-able jeep toy (Cataclysm), if all toys are just broken and the game is better off without them?

There are only 3 possible reasons for any of this.

1) They want to stop supporting flying in the game, and this is the best way to see how positive a response they get.
2) They want to create hype for WoD and fully intent to add flying again in 6.1, and all of this is just stirring the shit.
3) Their current team has NO CLUE how to work with a skybox, and they are buying time until the Titan team can get up to speed with the programming.

Honestly, of them all, number 2 seems most likely; unless they are trying to slowly kill the game just enough to make it F2P, and then plan to launch some new MMO. But that is just speculation.

- - - Updated - - -

I say to all pro and con flying: Wait and see how it works out in WoD.

Or, I can protest the change NOW, and you can put me on ignore. Removing flying is NOT a wise move, and the numbers in 6.1 will prove it.

[Vaelorian]

Or, I can protest the change NOW, and you can put me on ignore. Removing flying is NOT a wise move, and the numbers in 6.1 will prove it.

Well I'll wait and see and don't expect any change in subnumbers whatsoever other then the normal 1st quarter buff to the subs and then again a steady decline as we usually see every expansion.

You can protest all you want. Protesting now is just ludicrous. You know what would actually be more mature? Asking Blizzard how no-flying will actually look in WoD. How traveltime will actually be affected. How grinding nodes will be affected. How immersion will be affected.

Those are the issues that are far more important then just saying: waaah waaah I want my flying mount in WoD - because... well BECAUSE!!!!

If you read my post I am not taking a side perse. Truthfully I am more for removing flying in WoD, but overal I don't really care that much.

[Nayaga]

If you look at the thread that Bacon started about what stealth class to roll, you will notice a LOT of people in that thread go "I will murder them/stab them/blah blah".

Like I two shot those mobs, it feels good to wreck something with my giant hammers. Im' sure mages and locks that do 500K a chaos bolt and drop meteors on mfckers enjoy it even more.

Some people will revel mowing a path through angry mobs, others find low level mobs have no risk, challenge and little reward, they are boring. Not everyone enjoys the same thing in the game and that's fine.

- - - Updated - - -

Well I'll wait and see and don't expect any change in subnumbers whatsoever other then the normal 1st quarter buff to the subs and then again a steady decline as we usually see every expansion.

You can protest all you want. Protesting now is just ludicrous. You know what would actually be more mature? Asking Blizzard how no-flying will actually look in WoD. How traveltime will actually be affected. How grinding nodes will be affected. How immersion will be affected.

Those are the issues that are far more important then just saying: waaah waaah I want my flying mount in WoD - because... well BECAUSE!!!!

If you read my post I am not taking a side perse. Truthfully I am more for removing flying in WoD, but overal I don't really care that much.

You try to insult us with the "waaah waaah" remark, this doesn't propel a debate. Many of us have given reasoned opinion on what we like and don't like in the game.

The soul purpose for this section of the forum is "Warlords of Draenor - General Discussions". Warlords of Draenor has not been release yet. ALL debate here is about something that has not been released yet. If you don't want to debate aspects of the game that have not come out yet, why are you posting here?

[Vaelorian]

Blizz made the game. They gave us the toys. Now they want to take them back because : The toys have always been broken. Really? Why give them to us in the first place. In fact, why buy us a full sized battery powered ride-able jeep toy (Cataclysm), if all toys are just broken and the game is better off without them?

There are only 3 possible reasons for any of this.

1) They want to stop supporting flying in the game, and this is the best way to see how positive a response they get.
2) They want to create hype for WoD and fully intent to add flying again in 6.1, and all of this is just stirring the shit.
3) Their current team has NO CLUE how to work with a skybox, and they are buying time until the Titan team can get up to speed with the programming.

Honestly, of them all, number 2 seems most likely; unless they are trying to slowly kill the game just enough to make it F2P, and then plan to launch some new MMO. But that is just speculation.

I just read the rest of your post.

The toys haven't been broken. Why do you think this is? TBC was made with flying in mind. Why did they add flying? We asked them so many times. Forums will FULL of requests for flying just like Deathknights were asked for so many times. So they made a world which made sense with flying. They made every expansion thereafter with flying in mind.

They also stated that looking back, adding flying was a mistake. It made making engaging experiences in the outside world a lot harder. So designing the game to be good is a lot harder with flying in mind then without. It is not hard to agree with that statement is it?

And they are not REMOVING a toy either. You can fly around in "old content" just not the new one. Boohoo.

your reasons:
1. actually this reason makes more sense then anything. I think it is kind of a test case. I think they even said so. Why would they otherwise tell you that flying will not be available until ATLEAST 6.1? Around 6.1 they will check on how the game works without flying and how "happy" everyone is without it. So if that turns to shit, my guess is... they will let people fly. Weird isn't it?
2. so you announce something that is widely perceived as a negative - to make a hype about - so that people will buy/sub to your game? So wait.... you are selling something to your customers who seem to not want a feature disabled in certain parts of your game... and that will lead to a rise in sales? Are you listening to yourself?
PS: yes I know it is widely a negative. But sometimes people do not know what is good for them. Hence I give kudos for Blizzard for trying this.
3. Their current team has no clue how to work with a skybox and are buying time for Titan.... Really? Tbh mate I am even considering that I'll likely never see Titan come on the shelfs of stores... in my lifetime. Do you?

[bryroo]

Some people will quit, until they see how much fun everyone else is having and they'll shamelessly join in. Or they'll be too stoked for the xpac, to quit. I don't think casuals will quit over no flying. They're casual. And a large chunk of the playerbase is casual. Hardcore won't either. It's only the posters in here and like a very vocal few thousand others. I doubt it'll have any impact. All QQ blows over anyway.

Yea! Just like all that QQ over the Cataclysm dungeons and the QQ over pandas! That didn't amount to anything! Stupid people, just roll over and take it!

[Vaelorian]

You try to insult us with the "waaah waaah" remark, this doesn't propel a debate. Many of us have given reasoned opinion on what we like and don't like in the game.

The soul purpose for this section of the forum is "Warlords of Draenor - General Discussions". Warlords of Draenor has not been release yet. ALL debate here is about something that has not been released yet. If you don't want to debate aspects of the game that have not come out yet, why are you posting here?

Because you (general) are asking for something to not be implemented/removed before you even know the full story. Thats why. All your argueing here is void if you go on about assuming. Thats not a discussion.

You know you actually could discuss this in a mature manner... if either side (I'm not picking one) would be posting in the following manner:

What if flying would be removed? What would happen to the game?
I fear that if flying gets removed I would not be able to do XYZ anymore. Can anyone explain if this were the case?

Have you read how some people post as pro flying here in this very thread? It's near to insulting. And they get more angry with each page of which we have 514 now. Getting more angry does not further your cause or improve the debate. There is no debate anymore. It's just saying waaah waaah. Hence I wrote those exact words.

Oh and the Nay sayers to flying are also very close to the waaah waaah section. But not quite there yet.

[Bacon is the Answer]

Protesting now is just ludicrous.

You're right, I should wait until my DirecTv bill reaches $400 before I protest. I should wait for my HOA fees to triple before I protest. I should wait for big oil companies to stop drilling and destroying the environment before I protest. You do KNOW what the word protest means, don't you?

pro·test
noun
1. a statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something.
2. a written declaration, typically by a notary public, that a bill has been presented and payment or acceptance refused.

verb
1. express an objection to what someone has said or done.
2. declare (something) firmly and emphatically in the face of stated or implied doubt or in response to an accusation.
3. write or obtain a protest in regard to (a bill).

I object to no-flying after 6.1. I disapprove of no-flying after 6.1. I am declaring both my objection and my disapproval of Blizzard's potential decision to leave flying out AFTER 6.1. If I WAIT until 6.1, it may be too late. But, if I object EVERY SINGLE DAY UNTIL 6.1, I stand a much better chance of having my opinion and my objection, heard.