Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Real World]

Well people die each day, it is the fact. Millions die due to cancer, flue, traffic accidents... there isnt simply enough time to worry about all the death that surround us on a daily basis.

Worrying about the deaths of strangers was simply an example. There is a great big world behind us as we sit and stare into a pixelated world. There is nothing in the World of Warcraft more important than my Real World.

[markos82]

Yet there is plenty of time to set aside to worry about how I move my pixels on a screen.

It is called free time, if I wanted to go and care about all the deaths around me I would do that as a profession. I would be a priest or a professional moaner ( moane for hire ). Nut considering I pay 2 play I think I have the right to be worried about where and for what I spend my money even more so considering I invested close o 10 years into this game and guess what, most of the time I invested into farming FLYING MOUNTS.

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Worrying about the deaths of strangers was simply an example. There is a great big world behind us as we sit and stare into a pixelated world. There is nothing in the World of Warcraft more important than my Real World.

Yes and that is why I keep it separate from WoW. I go out with friends, GF, I travel, I work, I do many things outside WoW that i consider to be my leisure time and as such I wouldn't have fun if after 4-5 months looking at same content I have to spend 15+ more grounded.....

[bryroo]

Because Blizzard is a company and they like their money so they are not willing to risk losing money if they say everything to players. They are aware that there is a possibility to lose insane amount of revenue if they say " NO FLYING FOR GOOD ", thus we are still kept in < insert word here >

I agree with you completely here Mark. That's why I'm boycotting WoD. Not over something petty like no flight or the shitty healing paradigm or the massive ability pruning. That's all crap I've been dealing with since 2005. I've been there for major over hauls and still managed to enjoy the game. Ultimately whether it's office politics, money, or just really poor planning everything about WoD has related to me that Blizzard's subscribers are the absolute last consideration.

Blizzard has just been either evasive or just plain dishonest when it comes to this expansion.

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Real World. In a perfect world people would have the perspective to care more about the AIDs epidemic in Africa or the starving children all over the world than a video game but it's human nature to react to things in that person's relative sphere of existence. If you constantly worried about every human every where you'd go insane. Unfortunately that is not the way the world work.

People blog and buy crap on Amazon and make angry forum post about the Game of Thrones regardless of the millions of people dying around the world. This is a discussion board about World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor. It is not a forum about why people are terrible.

[Ordinator]

Flying mount is optional, you can use it but you don't have to so go ahead and use your ground mount and leave people that love flying enjoy it....

I would say that the huge majority of pro flyers don't "love flying". They love convenience. WoW is overdue for pruning some of its conveniences. Sorry.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I agree with you completely here Mark. That's why I'm boycotting WoD. Not over something petty like no flight or the shitty healing paradigm or the massive ability pruning. That's all crap I've been dealing with since 2005. I've been there for major over hauls and still managed to enjoy the game. Ultimately whether it's office politics, money, or just really poor planning everything about WoD has related to me that Blizzard's subscribers are the absolute last consideration.

Blizzard has just been either evasive or just plain dishonest when it comes to this expansion.

I don't see a whole lot of dishonesty. I mean knowing about no flying in the first place was them telling you. Then they told you it would be in a 6.1. Then they said it might not be in at all depending on feedback. Tons of blue text every couple days on all the changes. Dishonesty isn't the issue. You not liking the direction the game is going is.

That is a fair enough of a thing to have an opinion on. But put it where it goes. On you. You want certain features. You want the game to play a certain way. You want abilities or whatever else it might be to go a certain way. Blizzard really has laid it out pretty solidly. No they didn't get a press conference at Fox News and MSNBC to announce to the world (most of which doesn't give a shit) every detail. Instead they just released it how they always have. At Blizzcon. On their forums. Though social media. Though alpha notes (eventually beta) so far.

Unless you or someone has lifted these things out though code in the Alpha. Some big secret they haven't told us.. you don't have much to stand on. Pretty much all I hear in this thread is what Blizzard has said. That means.. transparency. Which sweeps dishonesty and evasive behavior off the table. Sorry to burst the bubble.

[Real World]

Yes and that is why I keep it separate from WoW. I go out with friends, GF, I travel, I work, I do many things outside WoW that i consider to be my leisure time and as such I wouldn't have fun if after 4-5 months looking at same content I have to spend 15+ more grounded.....

Well, hopefully, 6.1 will return flying to the game. If it does not, and the content and quests are compelling enough, I will likely stay on the ground and enjoy it. However, if it sucks so much I need to fly over it to cope with it, I might need to reconsider what I value in my MMO. I'm not sure flying is a deal breaker. Poor content is a deal breaker, which is why I took a long break in Cata to play SWTOR, a game with compelling storylines, cut scenes, and... no flying. I love my flying mounts, and I will miss flying til 6.1, but if the content doesn't grab me, I'll likely take another long break.

[Nayaga]

I don't see a whole lot of dishonesty. I mean knowing about no flying in the first place was them telling you. Then they told you it would be in a 6.1. Then they said it might not be in at all depending on feedback. Tons of blue text every couple days on all the changes. Dishonesty isn't the issue. You not liking the direction the game is going is.

That is a fair enough of a thing to have an opinion on. But put it where it goes. On you. You want certain features. You want the game to play a certain way. You want abilities or whatever else it might be to go a certain way. Blizzard really has laid it out pretty solidly. No they didn't get a press conference at Fox News and MSNBC to announce to the world (most of which doesn't give a shit) every detail. Instead they just released it how they always have. At Blizzcon. On their forums. Though social media. Though alpha notes (eventually beta) so far.

Unless you or someone has lifted these things out though code in the Alpha. Some big secret they haven't told us.. you don't have much to stand on. Pretty much all I hear in this thread is what Blizzard has said. That means.. transparency. Which sweeps dishonesty and evasive behavior off the table. Sorry to burst the bubble.

Yea "wait and see" isn't evasive.

[Sweetpeaz]

I don't see a whole lot of dishonesty. I mean knowing about no flying in the first place was them telling you. Then they told you it would be in a 6.1. Then they said it might not be in at all depending on feedback. Tons of blue text every couple days on all the changes. Dishonesty isn't the issue. You not liking the direction the game is going is.

That is a fair enough of a thing to have an opinion on. But put it where it goes. On you. You want certain features. You want the game to play a certain way. You want abilities or whatever else it might be to go a certain way. Blizzard really has laid it out pretty solidly. No they didn't get a press conference at Fox News and MSNBC to announce to the world (most of which doesn't give a shit) every detail. Instead they just released it how they always have. At Blizzcon. On their forums. Though social media. Though alpha notes (eventually beta) so far.

Unless you or someone has lifted these things out though code in the Alpha. Some big secret they haven't told us.. you don't have much to stand on. Pretty much all I hear in this thread is what Blizzard has said. That means.. transparency. Which sweeps dishonesty and evasive behavior off the table. Sorry to burst the bubble.

Saying there is no flight isn't dishonest.

Saying there will be flight in 6.1, and then saying we are not sure is dishonest.

[Real World]

Saying there is no flight isn't dishonest.

Saying there will be flight in 6.1, and then saying we are not sure is dishonest.

I agree. WoD, and noflying in particular, were both handled poorly. Most likely unintentional, but happened none-the-less. I'm curious if Bashiok received some sort of reprimand and had to recant his statement. Either way, what's done is done. If you feel betrayed, now is the time to vote with your wallets and find a company you can trust. Otherwise, if you can over look the statement IF flying is reinstated, it feels more like an ultimatum than a crusade for justice. Personally, I was bothered by the recant, but have since moved past it since I am painfully aware that my flying mounts will be grounded for at least the first 5 months of WoD. Ultimately, that is the question you need to ask yourselves:

"Can I deal with no flying in WoD for 5 months?" Because it is going to happen, whether we approve or not. In the end, it might not come back at all. These are serious things to consider before purchasing, or subbing.

[Destruktion]

Saying there is no flight isn't dishonest.

Saying there will be flight in 6.1, and then saying we are not sure is dishonest.

No it isn't. Plans are always subject to change, especially as early as Blizzcon.

[bryroo]

Saying there is no flight isn't dishonest.

Saying there will be flight in 6.1, and then saying we are not sure is dishonest.

Saying there will be flight in 6.1, selling your expansion at full price, and then saying there might not be flight in vague interviews, is pretty unethical in my eyes. Until they're telling that to all of their customers and not just the ones who are hovering over sites like MMOC I won't change my opinion of that.

@Lolercaust: and yet keeping their customers informed on those changes seems low on Blizzard's to do list. I guess Blizzard isn't all that confident of those changes.

[Destruktion]

Saying there will be flight in 6.1, selling your expansion at full price, and then saying there might not be flight in vague interviews, is pretty unethical in my eyes. Until they're telling that to all of their customers and not just the ones who are hovering over sites like MMOC I won't change my opinion of that.

They said "the current plan is to allow flight in 6.1 with an epic quest line." As I've said, plans can change.

@Lolercaust: and yet keeping their customers informed on those changes seems low on Blizzard's to do list. I guess Blizzard isn't all that confident of those changes.

What more do you want them to do, send a singing telegram about flying in WoD to every current subscriber or WoD pre-purchaser's home address?

[bryroo]

They said "the current plan is to allow flight in 6.1 with an epic quest line." As I've said, plans can change.



What more do you want them to do, send a singing telegram about flying in WoD to every current subscriber or WoD pre-purchaser's home address?

I want them to post a Developer Water Cooler on the subject to clear things up. Just like they've done on the ilvl squish, healing changes, and ability pruning. That would let their customers make an informed decision. Changing plans is fine as long as you haven't already taken people's money.

[PrairieChicken]

I want them to post a Developer Water Cooler on the subject to clear things up. Just like they've done on the ilvl squish, healing changes, and ability pruning. That would let their customers make an informed decision. Changing plans is fine as long as you haven't already taken people's money.

Then do not pre purchase? Is it surprising that company can change its unfinished product? Or you can get a full refund as an alternative. Whatever you choose blizz isn't cheating anyone.

[bryroo]

Then do not pre purchase? Is it surprising that company can change its unfinished product?

I believe you're missing the point. People are pre-ordering under false beliefs. Whether you believe flight or no flight in WoD is a big deal you can agree what it's been enough of a debate that people who are informed of the rumors have demanded refunds and that for the most part the information that led them to that decision is not wide spread. If Blizzard is asking the compensation for a finished product they should ethically provide as much information about the product they're selling as possible.

[Barkloud]

I think you might want to go back and watch the 90 minutes at Blizzcon discussing WoD, and what was coming. Most of the information about WoD has been on the main Battle.Net site for months, long before the sale of Pre-orders. Do I think it was wrong to recant his statement from last November the way Bashiok did? Yes. Are they offering refunds for people who feel wronged? Yes. Has this entire thing since Blizzcon been handled poorly from a PR perspective? Yes. Are some of us looking past the blunders and looking forward to the next installment of our favorite MMO? Absolutely. If you feel this betrayed by WoD, and you were that let down by MoP, don't you think maybe it is time to take a short break from the game? Maybe some time away will allow you some clarity to see if the fight is really with Blizzard, or with yourself. It is possible that this makes a great red herring to keep you from facing the real truth that maybe you are just bored with the game and need a break, or a change. I am not telling you to quit, or go to the extremes which Superman went, but maybe 14 days away from the game, and the forum, might give you a chance to clear your head and see what is really important. Perspective:


This is not a real concern:

No pixelated dragons in a video game for a couple of months

21 families have lost someone in an explosion. 7M people can't fly in a video game.

Perspective...

I spent nearly 20 years in the media business. I am well aware of the worlds problems. To use a photo of those poor victims to accentuate your point is disrespectful to them in my opinion. I like your posts, I really do. I just do not like the use of real pain and real sorrow and compare that to a bunch of people bullshitting on a video game board.

[bryroo]

I spent nearly 20 years in the media business. I am well aware of the worlds problems. To use a photo of those poor victims to accentuate your point is disrespectful to them in my opinion. I like your posts, I really do. I just do not like the use of real pain and real sorrow and compare that to a bunch of people bullshitting on a video game board.

I agree with Bark on this Real World. I've enjoyed most of your posts but comparing the MMOC forums to real world people dying pretty much invalidates 99.999% of anything said on the internet. If you're going to use 'WELL PEOPLE ARE DYING OUT THERE!' as a retort to anything said on the forums I'd wager it applies to anything you have to say as well. Unless flying in WoD somehow relates to people dying from bombings and you have a way to kill two birds with one stone it seems like a tasteless punch at the air.

[Destruktion]

I want them to post a Developer Water Cooler on the subject to clear things up. Just like they've done on the ilvl squish, healing changes, and ability pruning. That would let their customers make an informed decision. Changing plans is fine as long as you haven't already taken people's money.

Why would they do a water cooler on the subject when there's nothing left to say at the moment? They've already explained their reasoning for the decision, elaborated on that, elaborated on why flying is no longer guaranteed in 6.1, and explained that they need actual PLAYER FEEDBACK before making a decision on what to do with flying. There is NOTHING left to say.

[bryroo]

Why would they do a water cooler on the subject when there's nothing left to say at the moment? They've already explained their reasoning for the decision, elaborated on that, elaborated on why flying is no longer guaranteed in 6.1, and explained that they need actual PLAYER FEEDBACK before making a decision on what to do with flying. There is NOTHING left to say.

Well let's pick this apart. So far there is only the alpha. There are very, very few players in the alpha. And from what I have seen of Paula Dean's post the formula so far is par for the course. No flight with maybe some extra flight paths.

This means that they can only get a tiny percentage of player feedback in regards to the one setup they have.

They don't have one area with flight versus one area without flight so that players can weigh in on the pros and cons of each.
They haven't said anything to indicate that flying at a later date is probably or even possible.
They still haven't done anything to communicate this design direction to anyone other than the visit MMO-Champ once a week, visit the forum every other day, on the bleeding edge of the news Warcraft player that this is the direction they're taking with Warlords of Draenor.

Blizzard obviously isn't interested in player feedback or they'd be broadcasting this information to the entire player base. As long as Blizzard decides to keep this information confined to CM blurbs, tweets, and obscure interviews, there is EVERYTHING to say. They're content to test their lucky, lucky alpha testers and even that isn't going great so far.

As is frequently pointed out during heated forum debates the official forums, and to a lesser extent the MMOC forums represent a small fraction of the player base and even the opinions in this thread aren't completely informed.

Blizzard has had MONTHS to clear this mess up at this point. To lay the blame on the forum posters who have nothing else to go on is illogical.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Saying there is no flight isn't dishonest.

Saying there will be flight in 6.1, and then saying we are not sure is dishonest.

I am confused. So if you say exactly what you mean. By saying there will be flight in 6.1. Then you say exactly what you mean by saying you aren't sure you will be adding it back, depending on feedback, is dishonest? It sounds more like changing your mind almost months to a year before an expansion comes out in a game you are designing (news flash, this happens with all games and all pervious expansions as well). All I hear is people that don't like a particular change. Not lies or dishonesty. Nothing evasive whatsoever. They said it pretty clearly. You might not like it, but that doesn't mean it is a lie or dishonest.

Dishonesty would be not giving people their money back that request refunds, and they do. Dishonesty would be saying, "Flying will be in guys. We are just having a techincal issue right now getting it to work" when the intention is to never put it in. Then some of the people claiming this is a massive evasion are also the same people that claim the purpose of that evasion in their cause here. They want feedback when flying isn't in the game. To see if it should be added back in at another point. The leg this thread pretty much stands on. You know the, "Blizz asked for feedback so I have the right to give it" clause so many use to cry over spilled milk.

Doesn't that mean most of the arguements, disagreements, and approches in this thread are in fact the evasion of the truth? Players just want part of the game to be enabled. They don't want it to have a chance. They don't want to admit it is them with the problem. That it rests on their shoulders. Just admit the truth. No one here knows the future or the will of the masses. All they do is claim Blizzard has cheated and lied to spark emotional responses in people when the facts are the facts. Blizzard has said their intentions months if not a year ahead of time. If that makes you unsub or not buy the game then you have the right. Unless that unsub button disappears then your rights weren't violated (and that has happened in other MMOs believe it or not). Unless they just charge WoD to your account without you knowing it then you got nothing to stand on. Your right to choose is 100% intact. Stop acting like it isn't. Stop acting like Blizzard is being dishonest or hateful. If anything them telling the truth hurts them more than what a little white lie would fix over night. Get with reality.