Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Asmekiel]

What is "Blizzard argument" that works of both types?

Because they make the game and whenever they decide to ask a higher price take features away from us, we should be happy.

[urasim]

......THEN.......

-snip-

......NOW......

We spot four horde players questing. We climb up to 300 yards and tab out.

Yes. Flying mounts killed world PvP.

Your attempt to glorify ground travel and simplify flight is appalling.

For your first scenario it's just /camp to log the fuck out. Your argument is completely destroyed when you realize that people who don't want to PvP will avoid PvP.

Removing flight won't bring WPvP back to what it once was.

[Anzaman]

For your first scenario it's just /camp to log the fuck out. Your argument is completely destroyed when you realize that people who don't want to PvP will avoid PvP.

20 seconds while simply sitting there is still enough time to be killed when enemy has already noticed you.

[urasim]

I won't have to. My scenario takes place on a PvP server. I'll assume you wont be there.

Just so we are clear. You are talking about pros/cons of no-flying in the context of world pvp... from a PvE server?

Oh, you mean those servers that are 90%~ dominated by a single faction? Where any attempt to start PvP, if your the under dog faction, is suicide?

The fact that most players don't even play on PvP servers should be a big hint that WPvP isn't something that people want.

20 seconds while simply sitting there is still enough time to be killed when enemy has already noticed you.

Alt + F4 to go afk for a few or play an alt. Or, that party could just take the death, res, and walk around the ambush they now know is there. There are so many ways to avoid that shit as well. WPvP is dead and its because the majority of people who play WoW wish it to be so. It's a shame because WPvP is fun in most scenarios.

[Anzaman]

Oh, you mean those servers that are 90%~ dominated by a single faction? Where any attempt to start PvP, if your the under dog faction, is suicide?

There are still some PvP realms where the A/H ratio is quite ok; such as Ragnaros, Defias Brotherhood, Greymane, Lich King, Grom, Thermaplugg, Das Konsortium, Ravenholdt, Scarshield Legion,... Sure some of them are smaller realms, but for example Scarshield is connected with Ravenholdt which was also mentioned earlier. And Ragnaros/Defias Brotherhood being two of the biggest.

The fact that most players don't even play on PvP servers should be a big hint that WPvP isn't something that people want.

On EU realms, it's 52.5% PvP and 47.5% PvE, tho.

[Asmekiel]

It's a shame because WPvP is fun in most scenarios.

Apparently not enough, else it would happen.

[Anzaman]

Alt + F4 to go afk for a few or play an alt. Or, that party could just take the death, res, and walk around the ambush they now know is there. There are so many ways to avoid that shit as well. WPvP is dead and its because the majority of people who play WoW wish it to be so. It's a shame because WPvP is fun in most scenarios.

You'll still find yourself dead when you return. Your choice to not fight back, no idea why you would've went to PvP realm in the first place then.

Or well, at least need to run back to corpse / take sickness.

[Asmekiel]

On EU realms, it's 52.5% PvP and 47.5% PvE, tho.

All I can say to that is that I have 2 of my 20 characters on PvP realms, both because I have friends playing there. Just like PvP realms have a larger amount of successful heroic raiding guilds. Playing on a PvP realm doesn't automatically mean you like (W)PvP.

[urasim]

Me too.



More likely it gives you more options to get where you want while being in a complete safety and ignoring everything else. Destiny > journey (with flying).

You can't see the ground, or any other content, from the air? Strange. I can "experience" all of the content from flight. Since I'm not flying at the height of the skybox(does anyone actually do this? such a waste of time flying up there.).

You clearly aren't reading what we are saying. He isn't saying that you can get more options to go places. He is saying that we get the option to view the terrain from a different perspective. Which adds a lot more to the game for many players.

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You'll still find yourself dead when you return. Your choice to not fight back, no idea why you would've went to PvP realm in the first place then.

Or well, at least need to run back to corpse / take sickness.

Oh noes! A minor inconvenience since there are so many graveyards in the game. That's also if they can run to you and kill you in 20 seconds.

You make the mistake of thinking it's people choice to play on a PvP server, and you also make the mistake of thinking I don't enjoy WPvP. I'm doing what you should be doing... Being smart. You can't force people who don't want to PvP into PvP scenarios. They will attempt to avoid them at all costs.

[Ninepenny]

It means exactly what I say it means. More different ways for players to do the same thing.

Fancy way of saying "skipping w/e I hate dealing with". No wonder you kept it vague.

There is no choice involved when the other option is better considering the competitive nature of this game. Tired of chewing this "choice" argument over and over again.

What is "Blizzard argument" that works of both types?

The amount of power flying gives a player and Blizzard not being particularly happy about it.

[Anzaman]

You make the mistake of thinking it's people choice to play on a PvP server, and you also make the mistake of thinking I don't enjoy WPvP. I'm doing what you should be doing... Being smart.

Oh, somebody is forcing people to go to PvP realms?

[urasim]

Apparently not enough, else it would happen.

I obviously meant that to be tagged "IMHO", but neglected to do so, and I also meant the "old" WPvP(10 to 100+ players).

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Oh, somebody is forcing people to go to PvP realms?

To play with friends. Man, you are dense.

I forced my brothers to play on a PvP realm when the game first came out. Two out of the three of them hate PvP, but they still rolled there because I was there.

[Maneo]

You can't see the ground, or any other content, from the air? Strange. I can "experience" all of the content from flight. Since I'm not flying at the height of the skybox(does anyone actually do this? such a waste of time flying up there.).

You clearly aren't reading what we are saying. He isn't saying that you can get more options to go places. He is saying that we get the option to view the terrain from a different perspective. Which adds a lot more to the game for many players.

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It really seems to me the anti flight people really think that us pro flight people, fly up to the sky box and hit auto run.

That isn't the case for the majority I can guarantee that. Maybe that is what you do since you hate flight so much.

What I don't understand if it was such a game breaking feature for you why did you stick around for 7 years?

Plenty of Korean MMOs that don't have flight and are the tedious time consuming hardcore grind you are looking for.

[Anzaman]

To play with friends. Man, you are dense.

Cross-realm tech, cross-realm.

I've friends on several realms, when I group with them, we're on "same" realm.

[urasim]

Cross-realm tech, cross-realm.

I've friends on several realms, when I group with them, we're on "same" realm.

You do realize that is brand fucking new tech, right? You also can't run mythic raids with anyone cross realm. So, that's a fail.

[Deleted]

Your argument does not work on my PvE server, don't punish everyone for your tiny mini game.

1. Calling a part of the game you don't enjoy a 'mini game' just weakens your argument, isn't particularly helpful, doesn't promote discourse and comes across as juvenile.
2. I'm not in a position to punish anyone. Blizzard just happen to be in agreement with me. For at least a patch. Then we'll see.
3. I think having different flying rules for PvP and PvE servers completely valid. Always off for PvP and gated for PvE?

[Maneo]

There is no choice involved when the other option is better considering the competitive nature of this game. Tired of chewing this "choice" argument over and over again.

I am really trying to figure out what is competitive out in the open world at max level. Gathering maybe?

WPVP again most don't care as the majority are on PVE servers.

The amount of power flying gives a player and Blizzard not being particularly happy about it.

Yah the choice is solely to benefit Blizzard not the player.

I have asked this multiple times.

What benefit does the removal of flight give the PVE player (the majority of the WoW player base)? They have really changed nothing in WoD (per beta) except remove flight so no benefit is there.

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3. I think having different flying rules for PvP and PvE servers completely valid. Always off for PvP and gated for PvE?

I would be ok with this.

[urasim]

1. Calling a part of the game you don't enjoy a 'mini game' just weakens your argument, isn't particularly helpful, doesn't promote discourse and comes across as juvenile.
2. I'm not in a position to punish anyone. Blizzard just happen to be in agreement with me. For at least a patch. Then we'll see.
3. I think having different flying rules for PvP and PvE servers completely valid. Always off for PvP and gated for PvE?

1) WPvP is a tiny mini game compared to the amount of people that avoid it to do the larger game of BGs, RBGs, ashran, and arenas.
2) Blizzard isn't doing this for WPvP reasons. They never once mentioned that. Why? Because they know it won't fix it.

[Anzaman]

2) Blizzard isn't doing this for WPvP reasons. They never once mentioned that.

Just quoting Bashiok's statement on this, not trying to argue.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

[Maneo]

1) WPvP is a tiny mini game compared to the amount of people that avoid it to do the larger game of BGs, RBGs, ashran, and arenas.
2) Blizzard isn't doing this for WPvP reasons. They never once mentioned that. Why? Because they know it won't fix it.

2. Bashiok said why they are doing it. To slow down the consumption of content. It isn't being done for the players by any stretch.