Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Conscious]

I'm not saying everyone who's complaining is new, I'm just saying we spent 2 years running across the world and it wasn't a big deal then, it's not a big deal now, it made the place feel bigger.

The simple fact is we start EVERY single expansion without flight and it's never a problem, it's only a problem now because it's just expected. Thats a problem. The fact you feel entitled because "Well we've always had it" is just a minor bitch by the lazy, it doesn't mean it's bad for the game. And I'm sure a major change to the world that 50% of people dislike is just a flail by developers to increase them subs? It's been thought out and weighed with pro's and con's, I have no problem with trying it again. I fail to see why everyone is so up in arms about it, it's a trial.

We've always had it at max level. Something that you work for and look forward to getting, a reward for the journey you've taken.

And it's not looking like we will this time. If you don't see how that would upset a majority of people, then you're simply ignoring points in favor of personal nostalgic taste. We didn't have it for one iteration of the game, and we've had it for four, while the game had gone through it's largest growth with it. Obviously people are expecting it. There's a lot more to it other than entitlement. That's just a lazy cop out for lack of legitimate opposition.

[Maneo]

I'm not saying everyone who's complaining is new, I'm just saying we spent 2 years running across the world and it wasn't a big deal then, it's not a big deal now, it made the place feel bigger.

But yet flight was the most requested feature ... wonder why?

The simple fact is we start EVERY single expansion without flight and it's never a problem, it's only a problem now because it's just expected. Thats a problem. The fact you feel entitled because "Well we've always had it" is just a minor bitch by the lazy, it doesn't mean it's bad for the game. And I'm sure a major change to the world that 50% of people dislike is just a flail by developers to increase them subs? It's been thought out and weighed with pro's and con's, I have no problem with trying it again. I fail to see why everyone is so up in arms about it, it's a trial.

I don't think to many are complaining about not having flight till max level, and only a few are complaining if flight will return in 6.1.

How is it going to make it a better game? Tell you a secret in beta it hasn't.

I will ask again.

Do you really think that removing flight from WoD won't cost them subs? You really think the uber casual base of WoW will respond well to having the only convenient method of travel taken away w/nothing in return.

Do you really think the removing of flight from WoD will bring back any that left? I am confident those that left because of flight was a terribly insignificant number since WoW reached it peak when <gasp> we had flight.

Do you really think removing flight from WoD will bring in new players?

It is going to cost them the big question is how much. If they intend for WoD to be flightless I am willing to bet a month or so after 6.1 WoW will have less then 5 million subs.

As far as people being up in arms about it. Pretty simple cause they enjoyed playing the game and Blizzard is gimping that for no reason except to slow down the consumption of content (lets be honest everything else they say is just BS). This is a choice made by the devs to make their lives easier, and to reduce costs.

I fully believe if they thought they could get by with it flight would never return. Hence the softening of the "Wait and See" stance that translates to "If we lose enough subs to effect our bottom line we will bring flight back"

Now the stance is "We think 6.1 is a good spot to allow flight", I would bet the number of pre orders they refunded has something to do with that. Sadly we will never know.

[Malania]

We've always had it at max level. Something that you work for and look forward to getting, a reward for the journey you've taken.

And it's not looking like we will this time. If you don't see how that would upset a majority of people, then you're simply ignoring points in favor of personal nostalgic taste. We didn't have it for one iteration of the game, and we've had it for four, while the game had gone through it's largest growth with it. Obviously people are expecting it. There's a lot more to it other than entitlement. That's just a lazy cop out for lack of legitimate opposition.

It's largest growth and largest decline with it. That says to me the game is getting stale and theres a legitimate reason for trying out new/old things again. I never felt like flying was a reward for the Journey, the reward was end game content, flying was simply added to speed the process of movement up when you've already seen the world and wish to get from point A to point B in the fastest time. It doesn't help you explore the world because by the point you've reached it you've seen the world. That to me is a lazy cop out, feeding peoples expectations because it's just been there alot before, if people are so advrse to land mounts they're fully capable of afking on a taxi instead of afking with numlock on a mount. Flying mounts are just taxi's with a straight route. Let it go.

[Dormie]

Stop using the word fact when you don't know what it means. What you're referring to is an opinion.

You've never had a solid argument.

Cute.

Not everyone is going to like something you like. Not everyone will like an open world. Not everyone gets immersed with the open world.

When will you come to the realization that some people like different things? I'm guessing never.

Then why are you playing a game about those things?

[quras]

I'm not saying everyone who's complaining is new, I'm just saying we spent 2 years running across the world and it wasn't a big deal then, it's not a big deal now, it made the place feel bigger.

Actually it was a big deal. That shit got old and tedious about the 1000th time you did it. Seeing mob #420934 again and again on your way to where you actually wanted to do something and be hit with blizzard amazing daze mechanic just wasn't fun or entertaining at that point.

There is a reason flying was the most requested feature going onto TBC ever (except for maybe dual spec and a dance studio)

Don't believe me, go and check out the blizzcon video for TBC. It was amazing when flying was announced.

This is a themepark game, I graduated from the kiddy rides and worthless mobs and trivial crap on the ground. I'm done with those rides after I leveled through them.

In this theme park game, I'm ready to get the larger more interesting rides and the shorter my line is to get there the better. Needless wasting of time in travel is not a good thing.

The simple fact is we start EVERY single expansion without flight and it's never a problem, it's only a problem now because it's just expected.

No one has a problem leveling without flying but again, once you've seen it a couple hundred times, it's no longer worth wasting time on.

The fact you feel entitled because "Well we've always had it" is just a minor bitch by the lazy, it doesn't mean it's bad for the game.

The fact that gamers are not wanting anything new shows you that it's not some entitlement. Maybe back at the start of TBC it was a feeling of entitlement but now not so much. Gamers just want to keep what they already have. What the spent large amounts of in game time getting, some spending large amounts of cash getting and blizzard still selling flying in their own cash shop.

It's not an entitlement problem and after seeing beta what we know to be a fact is removing flying at max level is just not good for the game.

And I'm sure a major change to the world that 50% of people dislike is just a flail by developers to increase them subs? It's been thought out and weighed with pro's and con's, I have no problem with trying it again. I fail to see why everyone is so up in arms about it, it's a trial.

If you wanted to try it, you still could with flying still in game. Just click the other button. If you wanted to guage what blizzard is planning for max level, you need to look no farther than TI-style content and that crap was not worth it when it was given in a free patch much less for $50. I do have a problem with that.

[Maneo]

they're fully capable of afking on a taxi instead of afking with numlock on a mount. Flying mounts are just taxi's with a straight route. Let it go.

I think that is the problem the anti fight people really think that us pro flight people fly up to the skybox and hit number lock and alt tab. That isn't the case for the majority of us pro flight people. If we need to alt tab or take a shit we use flight paths.

Flying keeps us out in the world whether is is farming mats, pet battles, archeology etc etc ... we can land at anytime and take part in the world.

A anti flight person earlier in this thread talked about how he had all the MoP archeology achievements, when asked if he would have done it w/out flight his answer was "Hell no" can you tell me why?

[Anzaman]

A anti flight person earlier in this thread talked about how he had all the MoP archeology achievements, when asked if he would have done it w/out flight his answer was "Hell no" can you tell me why?

I'll go wild and guess that it's because Archaeology digsites were designed with flying in mind, since flying is enabled in those areas.

[Maneo]

I'll go wild and guess that it's because Archaeology digsites were designed with flying in mind, since flying is enabled in those areas.

Do you really think that is something that will see a significant change? I don't, not when they are continuing to limit and cut content in this expac.

[Deviant]

Cute.


Then why are you playing a game about those things?

The main focus of the game is instanced content. The story is completed in raids... all the titles come from raids/pvp.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I think that is the problem the anti fight people really think that us pro flight people fly up to the skybox and hit number lock and alt tab. That isn't the case for the majority of us pro flight people. If we need to alt tab or take a shit we use flight paths.

Flying keeps us out in the world whether is is farming mats, pet battles, archeology etc etc ... we can land at anytime and take part in the world.

A anti flight person earlier in this thread talked about how he had all the MoP archeology achievements, when asked if he would have done it w/out flight his answer was "Hell no" can you tell me why?

Archeology was a stupid, painful, awful piece of gameplay even with flying. Without flying it would have been painful beyond words. But it would have taken a LOT of time to get things done, which is pretty much what Blizzard seem to be focussed on these days; brainless grind that keeps people playing without them having to spend money on actual content.

[quras]

Archeology was a stupid, painful, awful piece of gameplay even with flying. Without flying it would have been painful beyond words. But it would have taken a LOT of time to get things done, which is pretty much what Blizzard seem to be focussed on these days; brainless grind that keeps people playing without them having to spend money on actual content.

You're not support that kinda of design are you?

I sure hope not. I know after all these years of playing wow I can't. Completionist or not, take an already tedious task and make it worse. No thank you.

[Dormie]

Actually it was a big deal. That shit got old and tedious about the 1000th time you did it. Seeing mob #420934 again and again on your way to where you actually wanted to do something and be hit with blizzard amazing daze mechanic just wasn't fun or entertaining at that point.

says you.

There is a reason flying was the most requested feature going onto TBC ever (except for maybe dual spec and a dance studio)

Don't believe me, go and check out the blizzcon video for TBC. It was amazing when flying was announced.

This is a themepark game, I graduated from the kiddy rides and worthless mobs and trivial crap on the ground. I'm done with those rides after I leveled through them.

people were excited because it was something entirely new. No one had ever been able to leave the ground outside of flight paths. But it's not new now, in fact it has gotten very old like you say running did.

In this theme park game, I'm ready to get the larger more interesting rides and the shorter my line is to get there the better. Needless wasting of time in travel is not a good thing.

And not everyone feels that way about it.

No one has a problem leveling without flying but again, once you've seen it a couple hundred times, it's no longer worth wasting time on.

this really isn't an excuse, everything we do in this game we've seen a couple hundred times.

The fact that gamers are not wanting anything new shows you that it's not some entitlement. Maybe back at the start of TBC it was a feeling of entitlement but now not so much. Gamers just want to keep what they already have. What the spent large amounts of in game time getting, some spending large amounts of cash getting and blizzard still selling flying in their own cash shop.

But you don't already have it. What you want is for them to design a new continent the way you prefer.

It's not an entitlement problem and after seeing beta what we know to be a fact is removing flying at max level is just not good for the game.

lol ok, good luck proving that one.

If you wanted to try it, you still could with flying still in game. Just click the other button. If you wanted to guage what blizzard is planning for max level, you need to look no farther than TI-style content and that crap was not worth it when it was given in a free patch much less for $50. I do have a problem with that.

Sounds like this game doesn't fit your personal preference then. Timeless Isle content+quests is still a more interesting game than what we have now. Would you prefer another daily island? I don't think people that hate on T.I would ever be satisfied. It wasn't perfect but it was also a test of sorts.

And as for the argument that you shouldn't have to 'slog' through low level mobs..would you rather slog through high level mobs that put up a fight? Do you want to fight an elite at every other mining node? Then you'd(not you personally) be right back here complaining about it. I think the truth is that there is nothing they could put in the world short of epic gear drops that wouldn't end up being named tedious by people. There's nothing wrong with the World or traveling on the ground, just your perception of it.

[Maneo]

Archeology was a stupid, painful, awful piece of gameplay even with flying. Without flying it would have been painful beyond words. But it would have taken a LOT of time to get things done, which is pretty much what Blizzard seem to be focussed on these days; brainless grind that keeps people playing without them having to spend money on actual content.

Not only are they treating WoW like a 10 year old game refusing to do new and innovative things with it. They seem hellbent on dragging the casual player base another 7 years kicking and screaming.

The Devs are gambling that people will be so vested in the game that they will gobble up whatever BS Blizz feeds them. Sadly they are right to a extent. Regardless it still is a big gamble.

Taking A.A. comments about it being split 50/50 why would you put at risk 50% of your subs to make the other 50% happy that are already still playing the game?

I always said only Blizzard could kill WoW, but this expac seems like it is intentional. Controlled burn of subs maybe?

[quras]

says you.

Says most gamers at that time.

people were excited because it was something entirely new. No one had ever been able to leave the ground outside of flight paths. But it's not new now, in fact it has gotten very old like you say running did.

Gamers were excited because it was exciting and because running back and forth seeing the same crap over and over was just boring. Gamers saw it, blizzard saw it and BOOM, we got it. It's been great ever since.

Game start going down hill for various reason but we know flying isn't one of them. The gamers in this very thread didn't leave wow because of glying and some of them put on a great front about "how bad flying is".

And not everyone feels that way about it.

Doesn't matter how you feel on that matter. This game is still a theme park game. In saying that if you want to waste your in game time have at it. Just don't assume removing another players choice in time management is the right way to go about thing because it is not.

this really isn't an excuse, everything we do in this game we've seen a couple hundred times.

And just like all those other things, you start to run them more efficiently. You start skipping trash packs and running by worthless crap because it means nothing to your current goal or quest.

Removing flying at max level just isn't helping gamers achieve better fun in game. Better for blizzard but not for the gamer.

But you don't already have it. What you want is for them to design a new continent the way you prefer.

Not hte way I prefer but the way it's been done in every single expansion this game has ever had. What I'd prefer is better quest design and story but it doesn't seem like thats happening either after seeing the beta.

lol ok, good luck proving that one.

Whats to prove. It's an opinion but it's an opinion based on seeing the game at max level so unless blizzard has something in store. It's a fairly solid opinion.

Sounds like this game doesn't fit your personal preference then.

Not anymore it doesn't. It's a shame too that after 10 years blizzard is no longer capable of generating interesting content and story but then to add salt to the wound, they remove flying for some random amount of time playing to this facade of it will bring better game play while at the same time still selling gamers flying in their cash ship.

I'll gladly admit it's no longer my preference. Hell, there are F2P games working harder for my money at this point than blizzard is.

[ITQuatro]

I'm okay with no flight but I know that others aren't. I'm sure there can be a balance for all players.

[urasim]

I'm not saying everyone who's complaining is new, I'm just saying we spent 2 years running across the world and it wasn't a big deal then, it's not a big deal now, it made the place feel bigger.

The simple fact is we start EVERY single expansion without flight and it's never a problem, it's only a problem now because it's just expected. Thats a problem. The fact you feel entitled because "Well we've always had it" is just a minor bitch by the lazy, it doesn't mean it's bad for the game. And I'm sure a major change to the world that 50% of people dislike is just a flail by developers to increase them subs? It's been thought out and weighed with pro's and con's, I have no problem with trying it again. I fail to see why everyone is so up in arms about it, it's a trial.

you got to fly at 68 in TBC if you were a druid, you got flight at 77 in wrath, you were also given the option to buying flying in wrath at level 68, and you got flight throughout the leveling process in cata. MoP is the only expansion where everyone had to be level cap to get flight.

It's a "trial" that I know for a fact has failed for me. Since I actually enjoy the act of flight, this experiment of theirs is a failure in my eyes. Especially now that I have thoroughly played the beta, and I've seen that it's more of a ploy to extend the life of their game and not anything else.

I'm okay with no flight but I know that others aren't. I'm sure there can be a balance for all players.

A balance would be servers with flight disabled and servers with flight enabled, and then they need to offer free transfers off servers for both player types and those that don't care and want to stay with friends.

[quras]

I'm okay with no flight but I know that others aren't. I'm sure there can be a balance for all players.

I think if blizzard had tried actual balance instead of removing flying for some random amount of time or forever in current content (whichever side they finally decide to go with), we wouldn't see an 803 page thread about it.

Too bad that didn't do that. It would have been a better situation altogether at that point.

[Gaagii]

I'm very thrilled that they aren't including flight in WoD. One of my favorite memories of vanilla was the sense of discovery I had when traveling in a group by foot in various zones, especially Stranglethorn. While flight was a fun feature in BC, I felt they should have left it there and not bother including it in later expansions. Flying to an objective and skipping through mobs of enemies is convenient, sure, but there really isn't a whole lot of fun in that.

[urasim]

I'm very thrilled that they aren't including flight in WoD. One of my favorite memories of vanilla was the sense of discovery I had when traveling in a group by foot in various zones, especially Stranglethorn. While flight was a fun feature in BC, I felt they should have left it there and not bother including it in later expansions. Flying to an objective and skipping through mobs of enemies is convenient, sure, but there really isn't a whole lot of fun in that.

How is it fun to run through the same mobs hundreds of times for months? Why can't you explore those areas as you level while grounded like the rest of us? No one is forcing you to fly as there isn't anything competitive in the world in WoD.

[Maneo]

I'm okay with no flight but I know that others aren't. I'm sure there can be a balance for all players.

Honestly I thought they struck a pretty good balance in MoP, we had content patches that allowed flight and others that didn't.

I'm very thrilled that they aren't including flight in WoD. One of my favorite memories of vanilla was the sense of discovery I had when traveling in a group by foot in various zones, especially Stranglethorn. While flight was a fun feature in BC, I felt they should have left it there and not bother including it in later expansions. Flying to an objective and skipping through mobs of enemies is convenient, sure, but there really isn't a whole lot of fun in that.

Rose colored goggles of Vanilla is just that. No discovery exists anymore the game isn't new the leveling has been streamlined to such a degree that it is almost pointless.

Vanilla it was neat because we didn't know what wonders endgame held. Now we do know.

Again flight was the most requested feature, even after BC remember the extremely positive response when they said flying would be allowed in the old world come Cata.

Do you honestly find riding through an area for the 100th time at max level to get to your objective (pet battle, daily quest, gather node etc etc) to only be dimounted by a mob that poses no threat challenge or reward to be fun?

Might want to try a Korean MMO tedious and annoying BS is something they do very well.

- - - Updated - - -

No one is forcing you to fly as there isn't anything competitive in the world in WoD.

Or that is a option as well instead of going to a Korean MMO.