1. #10061
    Quote Originally Posted by Minetor View Post
    I know but they have the money to have different dev teams working on small content patches and big xpans and you know the real reason it takes so long for new xpans is because casuals would cry if the last content of and xpan only lasted a few months because they maynot of got round to trying it after the nerfs when they can faceroll it.

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    I think you should only allow flying after you have the achievements for doing a specific number of quest for each zone.
    I think you should only allow flying, if your team that put flying in the game in the first place actually developed some compelling content for it.

  2. #10062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durantye View Post
    The fun isn't in the fact you killed him but the journey to do it, it doesn't surprise me at all you're bored with LFR Garrosh. People don't raid heroic just to see a different colored face of garrosh admit defeat they do it because the fights and mechanics getting there are what is fun. The feeling of 25 people finally clicking together in a fight like Siegecrafter where every single person holds a great deal of weight on their back, and then seeing him fall into the sub 1m and realizing he's dead. I don't know your fully history but if you have only done LFR I highly encourage you to at least try your hand at real raiding next expansion. (mythic) Then if you don't like it that is fine but at least you'll have tried, but killing Garrosh on a new difficulty is far from 'still killing garrosh'.
    I used to raid (New Naxx and up) all the time. I stopped late Cata after most of the 25-man guilds died and I find 10-man guilds WAY too drama-y.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  3. #10063
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I used to raid (New Naxx and up) all the time. I stopped late Cata after most of the 25-man guilds died and I find 10-man guilds WAY too drama-y.
    I agree, but with new Flex, shouldn't be an issue. Cuz every 10 man guild can swing up to 25. Aka, your friend can play now even though the RL wants to bring his shitty mage GF who does no dps.

  4. #10064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minetor View Post
    The bills??? most of the money they get from subs goes in the bank or on other games because if it went on WoW content we would not be waiting months and months between Xpans.
    When I say "casuals" pay the bills, I meant PROFIT!
    Last edited by Nayaga; 2014-06-20 at 05:20 PM.

  5. #10065
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    We debate the pros and cons as the thread moves forward. You want burden of proof, go back and read any of the hundreds of posts in multiple threads on why it should stay in game.

    Hell, bring up a reason you think it should be removed in game and I'll show you why it's invalid.
    I was responding to someone that said he diodn't need to bring proof to the table. So what I said stands.

    Your whole thought process is all wrong. I know most people are biased but DAMN. You will invalidate ANY argument brought to the table by ANYONE? Including me, Blizzard etc? That just goes to show your cognitive dissonance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drytoast View Post
    - removing it doesn't fix anything
    - nobody was complaining about it being in the game before WoD
    - it's removal wastes my time needlessly

    How are those three?
    -Subjective
    -Wrong
    -We can't debate how you'd rather spend your time.

  6. #10066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    I agree, but with new Flex, shouldn't be an issue. Cuz every 10 man guild can swing up to 25. Aka, your friend can play now even though the RL wants to bring his shitty mage GF who does no dps.
    Well, as long as they sufficiently solve the breakpoint issues. Mythic I believe is fixed at 20 anyway, which is more to my tastes.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  7. #10067
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Hell, bring up a reason you think it should be removed in game and I'll show you why it's invalid.
    Because Blizzard says so and it is their game. They have the final say whether flying is removed or not for any reason whatsoever. You can't invalidate that. That is how it is.

  8. #10068
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    You are wrong, I did say I enjoyed flying for the sake of flying, but that was only a small part of my statements. You are just ignoring it.
    That was the majority of it if I recall. you kept copy pasting the same line ... "trudging through boring harmless mobs that have no value" or something like that. Its all subjective about YOUR enjoyment of the game. Again, I enjoyed the old talent trees - but that doesn't magically mean they were better than alternatives.

  9. #10069
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Well, as long as they sufficiently solve the breakpoint issues. Mythic I believe is fixed at 20 anyway, which is more to my tastes.
    From what I hear they have that solved, where instead of hard break points you have % increases.

    To use garrosh mind controls as an example, say that at 15 players he does 3 mind controls and at 20 he does 4. (I don't know the actual breakpoints before they nerfed it down to only 2 no matter what.) In WoD's system at 16 players you would get 3 for sure and a 20% chance at a forth. At 19 it would be an 80% chance at a forth, and then at 20 you just get 4 no matter what. Gear drops, if not using personal loot, will follow a similar formula.

  10. #10070
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    You don't need to back down, but just realize that you're doing it for purely personal reasons without thinking of the game at large.
    The game at large? Why would I be concerned with the game at large? I paid for a game, and pay monthly to play it. As long as I am playing within the confines of the game, and enjoying myself, it should not matter HOW I play the game. If they remove flying for good, then it is time for a new game. In the meantime, I will continue to protest this idiotic decision to possibly not add flying to Draenor zones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    The game world. Not the majority of gamers. And how do i know that? Cuz the developers themselves took away flying. Even if they bring it back, it won't change that they don't like how it fucks with their world.
    Guess they should have thought of that Pre-Cataclysm.

  11. #10071
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon is the Answer View Post
    The game at large? Why would I be concerned with the game at large? I paid for a game, and pay monthly to play it. As long as I am playing within the confines of the game, and enjoying myself, it should not matter HOW I play the game. If they remove flying for good, then it is time for a new game. In the meantime, I will continue to protest this idiotic decision to possibly not add flying to Draenor zones.
    Apparently you are wrong. Apparently Blizzard wants you to play the game a certain way. If you don't want to play the game the way they design it, then yes, indeed its time you moved to another game.

  12. #10072
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon is the Answer View Post
    The game at large? Why would I be concerned with the game at large? I paid for a game, and pay monthly to play it. As long as I am playing within the confines of the game, and enjoying myself, it should not matter HOW I play the game. If they remove flying for good, then it is time for a new game. In the meantime, I will continue to protest this idiotic decision to possibly not add flying to Draenor zones.

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    Guess they should have thought of that Pre-Cataclysm.
    Why should YOU be concerned with it personally? You shouldn't I guess, that's the designer's jobs. Don't be mad when they do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon is the Answer View Post
    Guess they should have thought of that Pre-Cataclysm.
    I agree, I suppose.

  13. #10073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    That was the majority of it if I recall. you kept copy pasting the same line ... "trudging through boring harmless mobs that have no value" or something like that. Its all subjective about YOUR enjoyment of the game. Again, I enjoyed the old talent trees - but that doesn't magically mean they were better than alternatives.
    You still missed much of my statements, but then you frequently don't appear to me to want a real debate.

    Our enjoyment of the game is subjective. WoW is a game we play for fun, Blizzard really wants to know what people enjoy and don't. They adjust the game based on our collective subjective opinions on different aspects of the game. For example, many gamers complained about the daily grind in MoP. Blizzard adjusted the game based our subjective opinions and reduced the grind load for dailies. They are reducing daily loads even more in WoD.

  14. #10074
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Why should YOU be concerned with it personally? You shouldn't I guess, that's the designer's jobs. Don't be mad when they do it.
    It's fair to disagree with design changes, especially when they're deviating from something that's been a long running standard. Personally I don't think it'll end up being as big a deal as some people say it will, but at the same time it's in their right to argue against what they see as a potentially disastrous change that may ruin their personal enjoyment.

    Even if we assume that the majority of players will like the game more without flight, and I am NOT claiming that to be the case this is just a hypothetical, there will always be some people who are unhappy with any change no matter what it is, and they have a right to voice those concerns.

  15. #10075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malzra View Post
    From what I hear they have that solved, where instead of hard break points you have % increases.

    To use garrosh mind controls as an example, say that at 15 players he does 3 mind controls and at 20 he does 4. (I don't know the actual breakpoints before they nerfed it down to only 2 no matter what.) In WoD's system at 16 players you would get 3 for sure and a 20% chance at a forth. At 19 it would be an 80% chance at a forth, and then at 20 you just get 4 no matter what. Gear drops, if not using personal loot, will follow a similar formula.
    Personal loot also addresses a lot of issues I have with raiding. So I hope that becomes the most popular system instead of DKP or whoever sucked the RL's dick the hardest.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  16. #10076
    Quote Originally Posted by Malzra View Post
    It's fair to disagree with design changes, especially when they're deviating from something that's been a long running standard. Personally I don't think it'll end up being as big a deal as some people say it will, but at the same time it's in their right to argue against what they see as a potentially disastrous change that may ruin their personal enjoyment.

    Even if we assume that the majority of players will like the game more without flight, and I am NOT claiming that to be the case this is just a hypothetical, there will always be some people who are unhappy with any change no matter what it is, and they have a right to voice those concerns.
    I never said that you shouldn't disagree. I suggested that if you disagree while giving the reasons you are, you should know that you're doing it for purely personal reasons and not thinking of how the game could be better as a result. Which is fine...whatever floats your boat. And by you, I don't mean you, I mean a general you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Personal loot also addresses a lot of issues I have with raiding. So I hope that becomes the most popular system instead of DKP or whoever sucked the RL's dick the hardest.
    We used a council system, and although it seems unfair, a 25 man drops so much loot that I was fully geared in 3 weeks in WOTLK, and I got screwed out of gear I technically should have gotten. In the end it didn't even matter, especially a month and a half of raiding with a progressing guild.

  17. #10077
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Why should YOU be concerned with it personally? You shouldn't I guess, that's the designer's jobs. Don't be mad when they do it.

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    I agree, I suppose.
    If I want to be mad, I'll be mad. But I will just unsub and walk away. Flying is a fun feature for me. Without it, the freedom and convenience that came with the game goes too. So, it will be time for me to move on in 6.1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malzra View Post
    there will always be some people who are unhappy with any change no matter what it is, and they have a right to voice those concerns.
    Precisely this.

  18. #10078
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    If that was the case then why has blizzard only lost 200k total (lost 400, gained 200 one quarter) in their last 9 months of siege? But lost 1.2 mill first quarter of 2013 a mere 5 months into the expansion? Hint: It wasn't the content length, rather than what was presented as content. Gate the fuck out of people, they quit. Especially when you do that to the Chinese community that has to pay PER HOUR and not per month. That's not a good idea.
    Agreed.

    The subs stabilized because they removed the stupid grinds. People want to play this game, they just don't like the stupid hoops they have to jump through. People left prior to 5.2 because of the daily mess. Once they allowed people a choice, subs have stabilized.

    They can develop crappy content if they want, people just want to play. Hell...I still want to play. But I unsubbed because I needed to make a stand on this flight issue. It's that important to me.

  19. #10079
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    I never said that you shouldn't disagree. I suggested that if you disagree while giving the reasons you are, you should know that you're doing it for purely personal reasons and not thinking of how the game could be better as a result. Which is fine...whatever floats your boat. And by you, I don't mean you, I mean a general you.
    I don't think I've heard anyone ever say "I hate this change. This change will make the game less fun, or even ruin it for me. But I"m okay with it because it'll make the game better as a whole so I'll keep playing anyway." Of course people bring their opinions into it. That should be expected, it's a discussion forum for conflicting ideas. And in this case many people think that no flight WILL objectively harm the game anyway because they think that no flight will cause massive sub losses.

    Personally I disagree with that notion, but of COURSE people bring their personal opinions on what makes the game fun into it, and what they think will harm or hurt the game. I have seen people argue that many different things have made the game better and worse, from opening up multiple raid difficulties and sizes, to the flight issue, the removal of have group will travel, the addition of pet battles, pandaren etc. Everyone brings their opinions into it, I'd be shocked to see someone here actually advocating for a change that will ruin their personal enjoyment because it's 'for the greater good' of the game.

  20. #10080
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I was responding to someone that said he diodn't need to bring proof to the table. So what I said stands.

    Your whole thought process is all wrong. I know most people are biased but DAMN. You will invalidate ANY argument brought to the table by ANYONE? Including me, Blizzard etc? That just goes to show your cognitive dissonance.

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    -Subjective
    -Wrong
    -We can't debate how you'd rather spend your time.
    Explain what it changes. And by explain I don't mean broad strokes like "it fosters wpvp, forces you to not skip content..." I want you to actually describe to me exactly how you complete quests now versus how you will complete quests with a ground mount...

    or

    in the case of wpvp explain to me how a confrontation goes down now to how it will go down with a ground mount...show me through description, that I am "wrong".

    ...this should be entertaining once he gets it!

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