Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Maneo]

So everyone should just go by what you consider fun? And can you elaborate on what the beta shows? Because you sound kinda silly just throwing that out there.

Oh and your lost sentence.. totally contradictory.

Notice that he still didn't answer the question.

The removal of flight could work, it could allow blizzard to create more dynamic and innovative content. Problem is they didn't Beta is the same thing as every other expac. Kinda silly that you think taking away flight and adding nothing else to the game is a innovative and creative idea...

Awww it is cute he doesn't know what Bias means. I am going to help the poor little anti flier? (quick question is English your first language?)

bias - To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.

You see the fact that I don't have a massive hard on for WPVP makes me unbiased.

Exactly this. And the funny thing is there are so many reasons to get rid of flying..

List em I am sure we have shot them down before and someone here will be happy to do so again.

The only reason people can come up with to keep flying is some variation of convenience

What is wrong with convenience if it does nothing to effect gameplay?

I don't see that being a good reason at all.

You are also biased because you have a massive hard on for WPVP that is obviously depriving your brain of oxygen.

If you like your MMOs convenient, find a different game to play.

Then why have you continued to play this convenient abomination of WoW for close to 8 years... Oh that is right because flying didn't have a negative effect on your gameplay.

So when flying returns (cause it more then likely will) we can expect all you anti flight people to just quit the game? I hope so.

We all see what that kind of game design has done to WoW.

Well lets see we had flying at max level at the peak of the games popularity and subs... the community didn't start to degrade until group finder ... so whats your point?

That's the problem. It shouldn't be an expense to use your ground mount over a flying mount. That's why the removal of flying is the answer.

And if you were normal you wouldn't be here, trying to turn a game to something it is not.

OMFG I haven't been playing a MMO for years.

Ok looks at what we have here is another anti flight person with trouble with definitions. It happens and I am happy to help.

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game ) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting.

Well lets look at those two definitions... Yep WoW is still a RPG w/flight.

so I wasn't playing a game the previous 7 years WoW had max level (or sometimes earlier) flying? That's news to me.

That statement shows a great deal about the state of mind of the typicall anti flight person.

Beta footage of new ground travel.

http://www.arkive.org/garden-snail/h.../video-00.html

Although I doubt it will be that bad it is going to be close.

As serious athoholic with 22 90's, just to think about no flying make me scream in horror.
It was horrible enough to get my flying till lvl 90 during mop. i'm all for a tome to fly lk style.
No flying even at max lvl is just plain stupid.

Couldn't agree more

You mean you cry babies wont buy this expansion.

Nope and it would seem if you spend time here and other threads that many people have asked for a refund on their pre order of the expac to my knowledge that has never happened before even in MoP where the pandas had a great deal of hate.

I really want to know how many of those 1.5 million pre orders had to be refunded.

I am amazed your fingers don't curl the wrong way when you write this. You know that this only happens because of a 7 year old whine from a very vocal minority spending too much time in cities trying to impose the idea that whining is cool if it's about what you think you want.

WOD is very back and forth between your garrison and the other points of interest on the World map. Most of these are covered by flight paths and your 2nd heartsone. Efectively retarding the freedom of movement a player has in general and reducing the time they spend in the World. Now we have an entire patch to get to know that feeling so the people who know this brings nothing new or interesting to the game can have that fact validated and the ones who think it's gonna blast them back to the good old times find out how wrong they are. I think going past that is pointless.

Pretty much I hate to be proven right at the exspense of the player base. However Blizzard seems to want to make sub costing mistake again and again.

It sure as hell didn't seem like it was since the group finder tech when it opened the flood gates of entitled casuals into the game where elements that were a staple for RPGs were seen as inconveniences.

And Group Finder is going where? Oh that is right no where.

I will say this I would be blind to not see how LFR/LFD had negative effect on the community. That being said however giving people the ability to play the dungeons w/out having to sit in a captial city hours on end looking for a group is a good thing for the player base.

WoW was successul because it was far more accessible then the other MMOs on the market to your average player base. Over the years that game has become more casual along with its aging player base.

You want the casuals to go away you are going to have a game with less then 1 million subs.

Wait everyone does that already, even in Cataclysm with have group will travel people did that.

It was one of the reasons they removed the Guild Perk for Mass Rez.

Some did and some didn't. The people who just sat in capital cities the removal of flight isn't going to have much of a effect.

To the people that were actually out in the world doing things.. it is going to drive the majority of them to the capital cities to que.. or just not play.

Group finder was introduced in classic and then later taken out and reimplemented in Wrath with a better version of it. An MMORPG is just a game that has a lot of players, a persistent world, and role playing elements(leveling, lore, spells, etc...). So, I don't see how removing something I didn't mention is going to make the game something other than an MMO...

Didn't know they had a group finder in classic interesting.

Since I'm on a PvE server and don't give a shit about WPvP, I will avoid tedious, boring and worn-out content by sticking to my Garrisons and Cities. The penalty of no-flight will make me leave the open world at max level.

I think you will find the majority of players will be like that. Unless of course the litter the open world with epics even then it won't last long.

They aren't, they are trying to slow content consumption, all the other excuses are PR spin and double speak. This is all about the money.

There we have what it is litterally all about. It has nothing to do with improving player experience or making the game more fun.

We have explained to you many times that we like flying for more than convenience, yet you continue to belligerently post this tripe. Your inability to accept that other people enjoy different aspects of the game different than you is why you are frequently labeled as a forum troll.

I think his reading comp needs some work maybe. Or possibly english isn't his first language?

Stop being belligerent and obnoxious.

That is like asking water to not be wet, or the sun not to be warm.

WoD is going to turn into a lobby game. So sad.

Yah pretty much.

I will not. This change will only keep people in the city. If you give people broken travel. They will not use it.

Main travel speed for expansion is going from 310% to 100%.

It is weird to think a 10 year old game, with a declining player base is nerfing there travel speed by 210%

yah I always thought a expac was suposed to move the game forward not try to thrust us back to the days of Vanilla.

Its your own fault really. Being pouty and stubborn and saying things like "im just going to stay in my garrison and ignore the world because i cant fly". The world is still there. You would rather just be mad little kid instead.

Or maybe just maybe ... he like so many others don't find riding through an area for the 100th time on your way to a objective to just be dimounted by a mob that poses no threat, challenge or reward to be fun or compelling game play.

It is not only the travel speed but losing the ability to experience the game using the Z axis. It increases the replay value of the game (eg first experience MoP on the ground and then from the air).

Or to make it so once the non instanced max level content is complete. Things like dailies (weekly now), pet battles, gathering archeology etc etc are much less tedious.

What am I doing in the world after I've already experienced it while leveling?

Tedious tasks that were much less tedious and sometimes fun w/flight.

Damn right, Ord! He should get out there and see the world, whether it's any fun or not!

The point isn't that they're taking the world away from people; it's that they're making it a chore to interact with. Yes, flying over the world is somewhat less interactive than slepping around on its surface, grappling with every trivial little critter and bump in the terrain, but that's a matter of degrees. It's no more commendable to want to interact with the world to the highest degree available than it is to want to interact with it to a lesser degree. Staying bunkered up is a complete disengagement, and that seems to be the experience they're cultivating at the cap.

They say there's awesome content on the ground. Awesome. Only I can't believe them, because they don't believe it themselves. If they believed their content was fun and engaging, really knew they had made something awesome, they'd have left us with the ability to fly over it if we wanted, secure in the knowledge that we wouldn't do because it's fun. I can't support a product offered with that little confidence.

Fantastic post. The anti flight people and Blizzard would ignore cause it doesn't fit with their narative.

If the world has always had no use to you after leveling, you are virtually unaffected by no flying.

I liked doing dailies, archeology, pet battles, gathering etc etc... W/out flight it turns into a tedious mess.

Good dodge. Care to try again with an actual answer? You said that the world is out there for us, but you failed to tell us what is out there that compels us to partake in it.

He won't answer it. That is his master debate tactic to cherry pick posts and never answer the tough questions.

This is just sad.

1) you can get a 20% boost to your ground mount speed via the stables in your garrison.

2) People played Vanilla no problem with ground mounts and they were all out in the world exploring ALL THE TIME. Don't make it out to be like they took away your ability to explore the world.

I'd even say exploration will be filled with a higher sense of wonder and danger from the ground instead of simply "herp a derp, im gonna fly exactly to the pin point of where I want to go, swoop down, kill that 1 rare npc, and fly right back up and avoid the world all together." Remember, everyone else will be on ground mounts just like you, so there will be no upper hand for anyone.

People are just fine with timeless isle, and guess what..... YOU CANT FLY *GASP*!!

I'm sure Blizzard will cower to the whiners after patch 6.1, but ill be enjoying the first six months of the expansion right from the seat of my ground mount. If you dont want to be out in the world, and you wanna stay in town and queue becuase you are butt hurt about no flying, great, more rares and more things out in the world for me.

1. Forcing player choice in garrison is very poor design. So much for customization huh?

2. Vanilla was new and exciting it was often the first MMO that people ever experienced...

3. Danger .. uhmm yeah not so much. I think what you mean to say is annoying. Level 92 beat the hell out of a level 100 mob a video was posted earlier.. what is this danger you speak of.

4. Exploration .. ok I will concede that although I wouldn't like it the removal of flight till the first content patch is fine because of that. Problem is when you have seen it and done the content you are left with dailies (weekly) archeology, pet battles, gathering etc etc... Those things are going to be more dynamic and fun w/out flight? Not so much.

5. The only reason TI had any level of success is because it was littered with epics.

6. I hope Blizz does cave before or on 6.1 as far as your rares .. you know they only drop loot once now right?

I would imagine what waits in the world for us is whatever you were mounting up to fly toward instead of mounting up to ride toward. Going out to pet battle? There are two ways to get there: fast and convenient, with no interference, or slow and semi-convenient, with some interference. I rarely touch my flying mounts now. Even in a flying world, my Elekk is my favorite Pally mount. Now, just because your favorite method of travel is not the same as mine, let's not discredit the comments of others by asking "What's out there?". You know what is out there. You just want to get there by flight, instead of by ground. We will all be doing the same things we've done out in the world in prior expansions, but this time, fast, convenient, and no interference, will not be an option.

Things like archeology, pet battles, dailies (weekly), gathering etc etc are already tedious tasks the with flight were much less tedious and could even be fun. Do you really think taking away flight is going to get more people out in the world doing them?

Wow that took a bit of time.

The bottom line is this Blizzard isn't removing flight to benefit the player. This is a move to make the Devs jobs easier and to possibly save them some money.

So have any of the people who want flying back, actually been playing on the beta? I much prefer being locked to ground mounts. If I had flying I'd probably skip over so much of the little hidden rares/items. Granted I'd be willing to guess, the people who want flying mounts back are the same folks who always claim there's a lack of content.

I have played some of beta on my friends account.

He was a big advocate for no flying as he said it would allow blizzard to create my dynamic and innovative content. Since he has been playing he has changed his position to if flying isn't returned in 6.1 he is quitting.

I dont' think to many people want flight while leveling when the majority of content is consumed. I never really complained about lack of content, I do however wish blizzard would release content faster.. but never complained about it.

[Styles]

The problem is that flying is more than transportation for some of us. Without the fun of flying, most of us won't step foot outside our garrison/city. If any of us buy the game at all.

While I can agree that in most cases from what I have been reading, flying is half the fun for most people. But I have to wonder if the content is not worth seeing, at least for a patch or two without flight, how much of the content is really being enjoyed? If flying had never been introduced to the game, even as far back as TBC, would you have still played WoW, and found it to be compelling. Even if flying is fun, it is really little more than a tool by which to get from content A to content B. Some games have no mounts at all, and are still very compelling. Perhaps some people are just clinging to flight since nothing else in the game interests them. That would beg the question, "Why don't we ask for more compelling content?" instead of choosing a means by which to bypass said content. If the content got so boring I needed a way to circumvent it (like flying), I would probably have to take my money elsewhere to purchase compelling gameplay.

[Kaganfindel]

People are just fine with timeless isle, and guess what..... YOU CANT FLY *GASP*!!

Are they, though? Look at the size of the pork chop they had to tie round that zone's neck to get the dogs to play with it. Wall-to-wall purples, miles ahead of anything outside of raiding, and it still lost steam after a little while. There are some good ideas in there, some novel and interesting things to do, but they're few and far between, and separated by a boring slog and some truly frustrating terrain blockages.

You know what would make it all better for me? A new kind of travel that's a little faster and looser than ground mounts, and a lot less precise than flying. Something mechanically similar to W* hoverboards would be better than portals or flying mounts or anything else they've proposed for my money. Anybody who thinks travel in a MMORPG can't be about anything but getting from point A to point B needs to experience that gameplay at least once.

[Barkloud]

Same 5~ people posting over and over just refusing to grasp why Blizzard is doing this.

Hope they stand their ground, and make the world part of the game again, even if it's merely for a few months. And yes, a part of that is to remove peoples option to fly over it. If you're too stubborn to understand why no one ever chooses ground mounts over flying in a game about progressing/beating objectives, and instead talk about how it must be the contents fault people skip it, then you're never going to change your mind anyway.

You say "enjoy your empty sandbox". Yup, inside the sandbox, experiencing it. Not just watching from distance in air, completely safe from all danger.



Lol. Flying was not added for that reason. Maybe you'd want to believe that tho.

You think Timeless Isle is a failure, but you'd prefer it to be even less compelling by letting everyone sit mid-air, aiming their mounts when their addon tells them a specific rare has spawned, removing the entire terrain and other players from the equation. Aren't you a master of compelling gameplay?

Blizzard has exceptionally compelling instanced gameplay. When it comes to open world gameplay they are archaic, outdated and out done by just about everyone else.

There policy of not allowing shared tags just by itself is a community killer.

On topic though. The majority of the people here are not looking forward to having their travel nerfed by 210%.

[Styles]

Things like archeology, pet battles, dailies (weekly), gathering etc etc are already tedious tasks the with flight were much less tedious and could even be fun. Do you really think taking away flight is going to get more people out in the world doing them?

Things like archeology, pet battles, dailies (weekly), gathering etc etc are already tedious tasks the with flight were much less tedious and could even be fun. Do you really think taking away flight is going to get more people out in the world doing them?

Wow that took a bit of time.

The bottom line is this Blizzard isn't removing flight to benefit the player. This is a move to make the Devs jobs easier and to possibly save them some money.

I don't think removing flight will do anything more than upset pro-fliers and get the gankers to cheer. Imagine if flight were never introduced, we would still have all of those features to experience. If we knew no different, and speed were always confined to the ground, and at 100% speed, would we still be playing this game? Most games have no flying mounts, and some don't even have horses to ride, yet we are still compelled to play them. I do not agree with removing flight entirely, however, I do agree it should remain locked out until the first or second major patch. Maybe, if there is no flight at all, some folks might be pleasantly surprised at re-experiencing the game from its original angle. Just my opinion of course.

[MasterHamster]

I see a lot of people using creative ways to fly on Timeless Isle to circumvent the no flying feature. I wonder why?

Because that's how players work. They set goals and try to accomplish that as fast as possible. And if Blizzard let's them do that too much, they become bored as they make content trivial to themselves by circumventing it.

If players could get epic gear 1% faster killing boars somewhere, they'd do so and then complain about raids being trivial. Worst thing is these players would say "hey it's a choice to kill boars". Still detrimental and hence why game devs apply healthy limits to player convenience so they cannot ruin their own experience and then complain about it.

I loved getting to the Ordos area using the kite, before I got my cloak that let's me fly over there. Never have I wished to be able to fly on the island because it takes the island out of the experience.

[urasim]

While I can agree that in most cases from what I have been reading, flying is half the fun for most people. But I have to wonder if the content is not worth seeing, at least for a patch or two without flight, how much of the content is really being enjoyed? If flying had never been introduced to the game, even as far back as TBC, would you have still played WoW, and found it to be compelling. Even if flying is fun, it is really little more than a tool by which to get from content A to content B. Some games have no mounts at all, and are still very compelling. Perhaps some people are just clinging to flight since nothing else in the game interests them. That would beg the question, "Why don't we ask for more compelling content?" instead of choosing a means by which to bypass said content. If the content got so boring I needed a way to circumvent it (like flying), I would probably have to take my money elsewhere to purchase compelling gameplay.

There's no way to know if I'd still be playing a game if something in the past changed. There's no reason to speculate that either.

Many of us are playing the beta, and we see that there isn't any content at max level. Besides the dailies, that are a huge grind, for worse gear than instance loot.

I don't care about other games. I'm not playing those game, and I didn't play those games after I stopped playing WoW.

We have been asking for compelling content since cata first released and there was nothing to do at max level. At least I have. Some have been asking for things to do since classic.

Also, stop saying bypass content. The content is old and done we aren't bypassing it. We already did it.

[Nayaga]

Its your own fault really. Being pouty and stubborn and saying things like "im just going to stay in my garrison and ignore the world because i cant fly". The world is still there. You would rather just be mad little kid instead.

It has nothing to do with what is out there or not. It's that you have to slog through low level mobs with no risk, no challenge and little reward to get to that content.

If you make content deluded with boring, tedious and worn out content, people will ignore it.

[Mafic]

Because that's how players work. They set goals and try to accomplish that as fast as possible. And if Blizzard let's them do that too much, they become bored as they make content trivial to themselves by circumventing it.

If players could get epic gear 1% faster killing boars somewhere, they'd do so and then complain about raids being trivial. Hence why game devs apply healthy limits to player convenience so they cannot ruin their own experience and then complain about it.

I loved getting to the Ordos area using the kite, before I got my cloak that let's me fly over there. Never have I wished to be able to fly on the island because it takes the island out of the experience.

You are going against how Blizz designed the zone so why would you support no flying?

[Barkloud]

Because that's how players work. They set goals and try to accomplish that as fast as possible. And if Blizzard let's them do that too much, they become bored as they make content trivial to themselves by circumventing it.

If players could get epic gear 1% faster killing boars somewhere, they'd do so and then complain about raids being trivial. Hence why game devs apply healthy limits to player convenience so they cannot ruin their own experience and then complain about it.

I loved getting to the Ordos area using the kite, before I got my cloak that let's me fly over there. Never have I wished to be able to fly on the island because it takes the island out of the experience.

Maybe blizzard could just, I don't know, maybe develop more content? I mean, if all these supposedly broke and failing free to play mmos can continue to crank out tons and tons of content, why can't wow? Shoot the expansion is not even out and they are letting us know hey guys only 2 raid tiers possibly no more dungeons and we may have 0 scenarios.

We have running though, that's great news.

[Maneo]

It has nothing to do with what is out there or not. It's that you have to slog through low level mobs with no risk, no challenge and little reward to get to that content.

If you make content deluded with boring, tedious and worn out content, people will ignore it.

It is kinda like Field of Dreams. Give us content we will play it . Even on our flying mounts, look no further then Operation Shield Wall and Battlefield Barrens as proof.

[MasterHamster]

You are going against how Blizz designed the zone so why would you support no flying?

Because I think overcoming obstacles on my way to my objective is more fun than flying over them.

[Saxtorph]

I am a fan of ground mounts. I use them all the time. I am not, however, lobbying for the removal of flight. I just wanted to comment on your political parroting of a Blizz Blue.

Just because someone says something they assume people want to hear, does not make it the truth. By stating this was NOT their intention, they pretty much proclaimed it to be their intention. If there were nothing to defend, they would not defend it so adamantly.

One calmly stated sentence constitutes "adamant" defense, eh?

[Nightspear]

Guide to timeless isle

1 download mod
2 run to spot where boss will spawn in 5 to 10 minutes
3 try to get in hit before spawned boss dies in under 2 seconds
4 go back to step 2

Yep timeless isle sure was compelling and challenging gameplay.

move to a medium pop server instead. It's really different.

[Mafic]

Because I think overcoming obstacles on my way to my objective is more fun than flying over them.

Exploiting is better than flying? Not a compelling argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJIgKrIIms4

[Styles]

There's no way to know if I'd still be playing a game if something in the past changed. There's no reason to speculate that either.

Many of us are playing the beta, and we see that there isn't any content at max level. Besides the dailies, that are a huge grind, for worse gear than instance loot.

I don't care about other games. I'm not playing those game, and I didn't play those games after I stopped playing WoW.

We have been asking for compelling content since cata first released and there was nothing to do at max level.

Also, stop saying bypass content. The content is old and done we aren't bypassing it. We already did it.

If you are going to a current Pet Battle, it is current content. If you are going to farm ore, leather, or herbs, they are current items. If you are out to do Dailies, they are current dailies. Whether it is old, and already seen, or new, and never before experienced, it is still content. Flight permits players to fly past, or bypass, circumvent, out maneuver, the content. Rephrasing it does not change what flight allows. I am happy to have a calm, and civil conversation about the issue, but judging from your post history, you appear to be defensive anytime someone supports a concept other than your own. As for imagining the game without flight, I just remember early TBC. New content, and a long journey to lvl 70 to save the 5k gold to purchase a flying mount. I am sorry they are delaying/removing your preferred method of travel. But everything about flying, is true. The good, and the bad.

[urasim]

Because I think overcoming obstacles on my way to my objective is more fun than flying over them.

What obstacles? You mean the hill that you have to run around? Or, do you mean that worthless mob that poses no challenge and shouldn't ever be called an obstacle?

[MasterHamster]

Exploiting is better than flying? Not a compelling argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJIgKrIIms4

HAHAHAHAHA exploiting? Now you're really grasping at straws.

- - - Updated - - -

What obstacles? You mean the hill that you have to run around? Or, do you mean that worthless mob that poses no challenge and shouldn't ever be called an obstacle?

The environment.
The elites with charge or cone attacks.
Other players.

You know, the things that makes the world part of the game.

[Styles]

One calmly stated sentence constitutes "adamant" defense, eh?

Not to get too far off the subject, nor to dive into poor analogies, but some of the most heinous crimes in history have been told by the criminal using a calm, and somewhat passive voice. Even when denying the charges, the tone and inflection never change. I'm just saying actions speak louder that words. They've not exactly been quality statesmen when it comes to their PR recently. I hope their statement is true, and was their intention all along. But, I will not know that until I see it in action.

[CheeseSandwich]

While I can agree that in most cases from what I have been reading, flying is half the fun for most people. But I have to wonder if the content is not worth seeing, at least for a patch or two without flight, how much of the content is really being enjoyed? If flying had never been introduced to the game, even as far back as TBC, would you have still played WoW, and found it to be compelling. Even if flying is fun, it is really little more than a tool by which to get from content A to content B. Some games have no mounts at all, and are still very compelling. Perhaps some people are just clinging to flight since nothing else in the game interests them. That would beg the question, "Why don't we ask for more compelling content?" instead of choosing a means by which to bypass said content. If the content got so boring I needed a way to circumvent it (like flying), I would probably have to take my money elsewhere to purchase compelling gameplay.

People all through this thread have been offering suggestions to make flight more relevant, more interactive, more refined, better balanced etc. Why can't Blizz make compelling content that includes flight in WoD, like they did for so long? How come now we have to be nailed to the ground to appreciate this content?

Surely, if the content we are doing will be so good that we don't miss flight, then removing flight is pointless anyway, seeing as we would all be on the ground doing the content.

What compelling content, that you enjoy, were you ever refused of doing because you could fly in WoW? Did you play the game for X amount of years on your flying mount looking at stuff on the ground and not fly down and do it, just cuz you were flying?

The choice for bypassing that stuff in WoD without flight will be flight paths and portals/teleports. How is skipping a huge part of the continent via port or stuck to an inescapable scenery cinematic an improvement of what is in the game today.