1. #11761
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    No worries. I'm quite excited about the film. I hope it's a fucking rollercoaster ride of a movie.

    I found the first two of the trilogy to be strictly okay. Nothing outstanding.
    I’ll disagree on one point. The finale of FFH had some of the most outstanding Spidey fighting I’ve seen in a live-action film.

  2. #11762
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There just hasn't been a lot of opportunity for Danvers to have any significant role in anything else, at this point. It's not like they've had a ton of team-ups and she hasn't been around.
    And screen space for her is being shared and her character still took a backseat all things considered.

    You could say the same for the future of Shang Chi 'not getting too much of a significant role in anything else' in the story too if the movie or character gets taken out of the limelight and quietly written out of future content tie ins, without us ever knowing the original intended plans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  3. #11763
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And screen space for her is being shared and her character still took a backseat all things considered.
    This puts her in the same seat as basically every character except Tony Stark, Iron Man, Captain America, and Spider-Man.

    A lot of the later characters of the Thanos era, like Doctor Strange and, yes, Captain Marvel, were setting up the central characters of this phase. Captain Marvel's got the Ms. Marvel series on Disney+ coming (though she may not have much in there), and then the Marvels film where she's the central character. So it's not like they're ignoring her. I really have no idea where you're getting this from; it is not representative of the films at all.


  4. #11764
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This puts her in the same seat as basically every character except Tony Stark, Iron Man, Captain America, and Spider-Man.

    A lot of the later characters of the Thanos era, like Doctor Strange and, yes, Captain Marvel, were setting up the central characters of this phase. Captain Marvel's got the Ms. Marvel series on Disney+ coming (though she may not have much in there), and then the Marvels film where she's the central character. So it's not like they're ignoring her. I really have no idea where you're getting this from; it is not representative of the films at all.
    Tony Stark IS Iron Man. And Thor has gotten a lot of breathing room. The Marvels looks more like a group film than a Danvers specific film. I’m sus that she’ll appear on more than TV screens in Ms. Marvel, but we’ll see soon enough.

  5. #11765
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Tony Stark IS Iron Man.
    Ugh, brain go splat. I wrote down Tony, and then reviewed in my head how many films had three sequels, and Iron Man was in there, so plbrbplrb. Brain fart.

    The Marvels looks more like a group film than a Danvers specific film.
    It'll definitely have more than just Carol, but is Captain America: Civil War a Cap film? Or a group film? How about Iron Man 2, which features War Machine heavily? Or Thor 3, which has Loki, and Hulk, and Valkyrie, and a bunch of others?


  6. #11766
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Ugh, brain go splat. I wrote down Tony, and then reviewed in my head how many films had three sequels, and Iron Man was in there, so plbrbplrb. Brain fart.



    It'll definitely have more than just Carol, but is Captain America: Civil War a Cap film? Or a group film? How about Iron Man 2, which features War Machine heavily? Or Thor 3, which has Loki, and Hulk, and Valkyrie, and a bunch of others?
    One of the big criticisms about CW is it was Avengers lite in certain circles. IM2 debuts WM but it doesn’t center around Rhodie much. Thor 3 is clearly a Thor centric story, but it’s also a decent part of Marvel doing the Hulk story they promised Ruffalo(with the other 2 parts being IW and Endgame). All the Thor films were Thor and Loki though. It’s one reason Loki is so loved.

  7. #11767
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And screen space for her is being shared and her character still took a backseat all things considered.
    Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Civil War, say "hi".
    Thor: Ragnorok also cuts in with a little "howdy".

    Many of the bigger MCU movies are team ups and multi character stories.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  8. #11768
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Civil War, say "hi".
    Thor: Ragnorok also cuts in with a little "howdy".

    Many of the bigger MCU movies are team ups and multi character stories.
    Well, we'll see when Shang Chi 2 comes out. That's gonna be a thing, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  9. #11769
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well, we'll see when Shang Chi 2 comes out. That's gonna be a thing, right?
    There are plenty of major characters who don't even have a film, like Scarlet Witch or Vision. Who now have more screentime than most other heroes, because of Wandavision, but it's not a film. And until Wandavision, they didn't even have that, of course.

    You're taking a stance regarding the ongoing importance of characters based on weird personal math that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.


  10. #11770
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There are plenty of major characters who don't even have a film, like Scarlet Witch or Vision. Who now have more screentime than most other heroes, because of Wandavision, but it's not a film. And until Wandavision, they didn't even have that, of course.

    You're taking a stance regarding the ongoing importance of characters based on weird personal math that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
    So how has anything I said based on weird personal math? Because you disagree? Because other heroes got more screen time than say Captain Marvel?

    Shang Chi doesn't have the international pull that they were banking on, and I hold reservations on the future of the character. I feel the same way has happened to Captain Marvel, which seemed me that it was intended to be something bigger than it ended up being in the MCU. I don't think thats necessarily a bad thing to point out. You can accept that opinion, no? Because you're trying pretty hard to prove it wrong even though I made no hard statements over the success of either movies.

    Tobey Macguire Spiderman 3 made bank too, so I guess I can't express any skeptical reservations for any MCU movie ending up like Spiderman 3 as if it could be anything other than a raging success.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-17 at 04:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  11. #11771
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So how has anything I said based on weird personal math? Because you disagree? Because other heroes got more screen time than say Captain Marvel?

    Shang Chi doesn't have the international pull that they were banking on, and I hold reservations on the future of the character.
    I'm sure the story about a Chinese superhero starring a Chinese-Canadian actor and revolving heavily around Chinese-inspired mythologies won't do well in China.

    I feel the same way has happened to Captain Marvel, which seemed me that it was intended to be something bigger than it ended up being in the MCU.
    See, this is what I mean by "weird personal math". Her first film did amazingly well. She was in Endgame shortly after. And there just hasn't been a lot more films since then for her to show up in.

    I have literally no idea how you're drawing this conclusion.


  12. #11772
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm sure the story about a Chinese superhero starring a Chinese-Canadian actor and revolving heavily around Chinese-inspired mythologies won't do well in China.
    Yep, it might not. As someone who is Chinese Canadian and talking to my wife who is a Chinese citizen, there is a lot of disinterest and controversy around this film being regarded by the Chinese audience.

    I mean, I see the concerns too, even if it doesn't personally affect me. I understand enough about Chinese cinema and culture to see this movie is somewhat tonedeaf and has certain undertones that don't fly well overseas.

    Of course, its not as bad as Mulan.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-17 at 04:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  13. #11773
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    she doesnt get anything from the d+ sales thats why shes suing, her contract was based off ticket sale benchmarks so all of the money from d+ goes straight to the mouse not her
    Thats not true. She's not suing over the premium to watch BW because she's already getting a cut of that. She's suing over D+ subscriptions.

  14. #11774
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I’ll disagree on one point. The finale of FFH had some of the most outstanding Spidey fighting I’ve seen in a live-action film.
    Tbh I tuned out by that point. I'm not massive on fight scenes. I'm a lore whore, so it's all about story and character for me.

    Them two films didn't do much for me in that regard. And again, that's just me.

  15. #11775
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well, we'll see when Shang Chi 2 comes out. That's gonna be a thing, right?
    If the movie makes money, it will.

    It feels like you’re arguing from standpoint that has nothing actually to do with the reality of the MCU, but rather something else entirely and personal.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  16. #11776
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm sure the story about a Chinese superhero starring a Chinese-Canadian actor and revolving heavily around Chinese-inspired mythologies won't do well in China.
    The trailers have been absolutely SKEWERED by the Chinese, they've called it insulting and say that it appears to be the typical Westerner's stereotyped view of Chinese people and culture, and their state media don't even include it in their release of upcoming movies. That's not really off to a great start as far as massive Chinese box office goes.

  17. #11777
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    The trailers have been absolutely SKEWERED by the Chinese, they've called it insulting and say that it appears to be the typical Westerner's stereotyped view of Chinese people and culture, and their state media don't even include it in their release of upcoming movies. That's not really off to a great start as far as massive Chinese box office goes.
    Of course they would. ^^ Simu Liu specifically said it's mainly about, for and by Asians in 'diaspora', which means it's about their clash with the Asian culture. Also, it depicts mysticism and a very Feng Shui kind of it (as far as I could see so far), which usually is not looked upon very kindly by the Chinese mainland (at least the politicians, don't know about the people).


    I watched the Red Carpet event last night and I was a little bummed that Tony Leung and Michelle Yeoh weren't even mentioned in the interviews, much less actually on the carpet (that might be difficult because of the travelling restrictions around the world). I love thoese two and would have liked to hear their praise sung at least a little too.

  18. #11778
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    If the movie makes money, it will.

    It feels like you’re arguing from standpoint that has nothing actually to do with the reality of the MCU, but rather something else entirely and personal.
    I'm pointing out how your answers don't address any of my concerns, because you don't think they exist at all and aren't regarding them.

    If I express concern that the movie not doing well may have an effect on the characters use in future material, then saying their movie sequels already share screen space is not something I'd agree with or have ease any of my concerns. Like for fucks sake, you even acknowledge a sequel 'if it makes money, it will'. What the fuck do you think was my original concern?

    If it doesn't do well (outlook by the producers/execs, not even factoring box office), it might not even get a sequel.

    It's not a MCU thing, it's a movie production and handling thing. I mean look at how the TV series characters were supposed to somehow tie into MCU. And even now certain characters have a chance of coming back, like supposedly Daredevil and Punisher making MCU appearances. But guess who isn't? Iron Fist, who is being brushed under the table (not complaining, just using an example).

    It's all tied to the people with creative control, and how they plan to allocate the resources they have at hand. And I have skepticism over Shang Chi, even though I WANT this movie to succeed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by formerShandalay View Post
    Also, it depicts mysticism and a very Feng Shui kind of it (as far as I could see so far), which usually is not looked upon very kindly by the Chinese mainland (at least the politicians, don't know about the people).
    For the most part, it doesn't bother people, and there's dozens upon dozens of Chinese movies and TV series with mysticism. Wushu is its own subgenre of fantasy, and there's plenty of it. The government doesn't really step in to block any of that if it's just fiction, it's more any type of hidden religious or social commentary they'd start flagging. Basically anything that might conflict with Chinese ideals of practicality and realism; anything that promotes the idea of mysticism is real, or something people should believe is real. If it's treated within the confines of a fictional world, then there's no real problem. And as long as people don't start thinking they can really do Kamehamehas like Goku, then material like Dragonball isn't gonna get flagged or banned. The government is concerned when it comes to how media/entertainment influences the behaviours or mindsets of the people, so the red flags usually come from any media that blurs the line between fantasy and reality rather than having a clear distinction that 'this is just a movie'
    Last edited by Triceron; 2021-08-17 at 06:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  19. #11779
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I'm pointing out how your answers don't address any of my concerns, because you don't think they exist at all and aren't regarding them.

    If I express concern that the movie not doing well may have an effect on the characters use in future material, then saying their movie sequels already share screen space is not something I'd agree with or have ease any of my concerns. Like for fucks sake, you even acknowledge a sequel 'if it makes money, it will'. What the fuck do you think was my original concern?

    If it doesn't do well (outlook by the producers/execs, not even factoring box office), it might not even get a sequel.

    It's not a MCU thing, it's a movie production and handling thing. I mean look at how the TV series characters were supposed to somehow tie into MCU. And even now certain characters have a chance of coming back, like supposedly Daredevil and Punisher making MCU appearances. But guess who isn't? Iron Fist, who is being brushed under the table (not complaining, just using an example).

    It's all tied to the people with creative control, and how they plan to allocate the resources they have at hand. And I have skepticism over Shang Chi, even though I WANT this movie to succeed.

    - - - Updated - - -



    For the most part, it doesn't bother people, and there's dozens upon dozens of Chinese movies and TV series with mysticism. Wushu is its own subgenre of fantasy, and there's plenty of it. The government doesn't really step in to block any of that if it's just fiction, it's more any type of hidden religious or social commentary they'd start flagging. Basically anything that might conflict with Chinese ideals of practicality and realism; anything that promotes the idea of mysticism is real, or something people should believe is real. If it's treated within the confines of a fictional world, then there's no real problem. And as long as people don't start thinking they can really do Kamehamehas like Goku, then material like Dragonball isn't gonna get flagged or banned. The government is concerned when it comes to how media/entertainment influences the behaviours or mindsets of the people, so the red flags usually come from any media that blurs the line between fantasy and reality rather than having a clear distinction that 'this is just a movie'
    i think you're ignoring a big part of the tv side of marvels inclusion.
    ike perlmutter and kevin fiege fucking hate eachother

    - - - Updated - - -

    you ever think its a little weird fans constantly asked fiege when the "its all connected" bs would actually flow both ways?

    it wasnt until he had full control of all of marvel and d+ came out that all of a sudden its feasible to have tv shows not only be connected but INTEGRAL to the storylines of the mcu. wandavision leads directly into dr strange 2, falcon and winter soldier leads directly into captain america 4 and had tv show characters crossover with black widow, loki is pretty much setting up a new avengers villain.

    the entire time perlmutter was in control of marvel tv?
    inhumans film cancelled, tv show non canonical
    agents of shield? no influence non canonical
    cloak and dagger?
    the runaways?
    all of the defender netflix shows?
    none of these shows are treated as canonical and have any sort of influence on the mcu at all. the flow is entirely one way
    they said constantly "it would be too hard to do that with the way tv shows film" or "we would have to explain who they are first that takes too much time away from the film"
    ike perlmutter gets the boot and fiege is in control of the tv division?
    suddenly all that rhetoric goes out the window and now we've got characters on tv shows actually influencing the ongoing plotlines
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  20. #11780
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm sure the story about a Chinese superhero starring a Chinese-Canadian actor and revolving heavily around Chinese-inspired mythologies won't do well in China.
    1) The Chinese government has already expressed that they are unhappy with the cast. It very unlikely from what I remember reading that the film will ever open there.

    2) The lead actor comes off as a hot head and a bit of a douche.

    So yeah the film may be in a spot of trouble. Nothing fatal as yet but a death by a thousand cuts is still on the table.
    Last edited by JDL49; 2021-08-18 at 07:20 PM.

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