[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Endus]

The branching and the timejump are one and the same, they don't form a lenghty 'timeline' that the branch-Thanos still has to live through.
His going to the future is what creates the branch, so there's no two Thanoses in Infinity War or before, because the branch timeline directly flows into the "Sacred Timeline" the moment it is created and from then on is part of said "Sacred Timeline". There are no two Thanoses, because the Thanos that still lived the 'normal life' is already dead at the point the other Thanos even comes into play. The variant 2014 Thanos does not live through his life up to then, only the non-variant version had to do that.

There's no problem with two Thanoses. We see what, like 10 Lokis in the same room, in the Loki show? Variants can hang with variants if they can hop universes, no problem.

And yeah; the "future" of Thanos2 after he jumped to Timeline1 for Endgame? That would've gotten pruned, because that's not the Sacred Timeline. Same for the future of Timeline1 that existed before Thanos2 jumped in to change it; pruned. The only future that existed required a Thanos2 jumping in to change that future path for the Sacred Timeline, which is the only reason the TVA would've let it happen.

Frankly, and I know we're agreeing here so this isn't directed at you, this is the whole reason the Loki show gives us the Infinity Stones serving as paperweights in the TVA. Because the TVA is so totally capable of pruning a naughty Infinity Stone manipulation that they're drowning in the things and don't consider them dangerous, at all. They wouldn't have a problem with Thanos and an Infinity Gauntlet. That's the point. He's not breaking anything the TVA wants; Thanos2 is a necessary component of the Sacred Timeline.

Wrong. As displayed by Banner having a flawed understanding of the principles requiring Tony’s assistance. The writers telling us the rules is from Loki where we see the past being influenced constantly by time traveling.

Notably, the agents of the TVA have the necessary perspective and thousands of years of practice at jumping timestreams and manipulating them. Both Banner and the Ancient One don't, and have a limited perspective from within a single timeline. Necessarily, because the TVA are pruning everything else. That's what Strange doesn't understand, clearly, about the timeline, and which the Ancient One couldn't communicate because she didn't understand it; you can look at possible futures, but there's only one real future. Strange honestly didn't have to worry about the one way to victory in a million possible futures; the TVA were guaranteeing that future would be the one that came true. All those other options he explored were universes that would be pruned if they came to be, and some Strange, somewhere/when, would make the right choices and that'd be the only future that ended up existing. If Strange had really understood that, he would've reacted differently; the TVA are essentially serving as "God's will" in symbolic terms. Whatever you do can't be "wrong", because if it's "wrong", it gets pruned, and only the versions who make the "right" decision actually end up existing.

Of course, "God" here is just Kang, who's fallible, but it was impossible for Strange to screw up and not get things right. The TVA would've made sure he didn't. At least, where "he" was "the only version of Strange that existed at the time", rather than however many got it wrong and got pruned.

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About that multiverse-timetravel-brach stuff I just thought of something.
If the Endgame-Avengers' timetravel to 2012 created another timeline, it was still one, where the battle of New York took place just as it did in the timeline where they weren't there and from that point on, their time-branch would have been the 'Sacred Timeline', according to Kang. So that is the branch that stayed, the other got pruned. The timeline we saw in 2012 doesn't exist anymore, only the one where the Endgame Avengers were present does.

See the MS Paint graphic I slapped together a few posts back.

Both Thanos timelines are, simultaneously, the "sacred timeline". Thanos2 is only tolerated long enough to port back into Timeline1 for Endgame; it's a branch that merges back into the main. And the only future that exists is the post-Endgame future, neither Thanos2's hypothetical future had he not gone to Timeline 1 nor the future of Timeline1 without Thanos 2 would exist; those aren't the Sacred Timeline, and thus they'd get pruned.

The events of every Marvel film are still the canon of the Sacred Timeline up through to the end of Loki. Nothing in Endgame changes that. It just added some time travel notes that we didn't get to see the first time around, but which didn't change anything significant. You may as well assume those time travel events always happened, even in the films we watched, they're just off-screen.

The one exception being Loki grabbing the Tesseract and booking it; that's a variant and that timeline was pruned (though that Loki survived). That didn't happen in the Sacred Timeline, but it took us seeing the Loki show to realize that. In theory, if any of that time travel did create a deviation, it would've gotten pruned, too, but we literally aren't shown anything other than a TVA agent stating outright that the Avengers time travel was fine and didn't break anything.

[formerShandalay]

There's no problem with two Thanoses. We see what, like 10 Lokis in the same room, in the Loki show? Variants can hang with variants if they can hop universes, no problem.

And yeah; the "future" of Thanos2 after he jumped to Timeline1 for Endgame? That would've gotten pruned, because that's not the Sacred Timeline. Same for the future of Timeline1 that existed before Thanos2 jumped in to change it; pruned. The only future that existed required a Thanos2 jumping in to change that future path for the Sacred Timeline, which is the only reason the TVA would've let it happen.

Frankly, and I know we're agreeing here so this isn't directed at you, this is the whole reason the Loki show gives us the Infinity Stones serving as paperweights in the TVA. Because the TVA is so totally capable of pruning a naughty Infinity Stone manipulation that they're drowning in the things and don't consider them dangerous, at all. They wouldn't have a problem with Thanos and an Infinity Gauntlet. That's the point. He's not breaking anything the TVA wants; Thanos2 is a necessary component of the Sacred Timeline.



Notably, the agents of the TVA have the necessary perspective and thousands of years of practice at jumping timestreams and manipulating them. Both Banner and the Ancient One don't, and have a limited perspective from within a single timeline. Necessarily, because the TVA are pruning everything else. That's what Strange doesn't understand, clearly, about the timeline, and which the Ancient One couldn't communicate because she didn't understand it; you can look at possible futures, but there's only one real future. Strange honestly didn't have to worry about the one way to victory in a million possible futures; the TVA were guaranteeing that future would be the one that came true. All those other options he explored were universes that would be pruned if they came to be, and some Strange, somewhere/when, would make the right choices and that'd be the only future that ended up existing. If Strange had really understood that, he would've reacted differently; the TVA are essentially serving as "God's will" in symbolic terms. Whatever you do can't be "wrong", because if it's "wrong", it gets pruned, and only the versions who make the "right" decision actually end up existing.

Of course, "God" here is just Kang, who's fallible, but it was impossible for Strange to screw up and not get things right. The TVA would've made sure he didn't. At least, where "he" was "the only version of Strange that existed at the time", rather than however many got it wrong and got pruned.

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See the MS Paint graphic I slapped together a few posts back.

Both Thanos timelines are, simultaneously, the "sacred timeline". Thanos2 is only tolerated long enough to port back into Timeline1 for Endgame; it's a branch that merges back into the main. And the only future that exists is the post-Endgame future, neither Thanos2's hypothetical future had he not gone to Timeline 1 nor the future of Timeline1 without Thanos 2 would exist; those aren't the Sacred Timeline, and thus they'd get pruned.

The events of every Marvel film are still the canon of the Sacred Timeline up through to the end of Loki. Nothing in Endgame changes that. It just added some time travel notes that we didn't get to see the first time around, but which didn't change anything significant. You may as well assume those time travel events always happened, even in the films we watched, they're just off-screen.

The one exception being Loki grabbing the Tesseract and booking it; that's a variant and that timeline was pruned (though that Loki survived). That didn't happen in the Sacred Timeline, but it took us seeing the Loki show to realize that. In theory, if any of that time travel did create a deviation, it would've gotten pruned, too, but we literally aren't shown anything other than a TVA agent stating outright that the Avengers time travel was fine and didn't break anything.

My post was just to outline that no matter how you put it, if the og movie from 2012 was actually without the timetravellers or with them in it (just not showing them), what we have now, in Hawkeye, is the timeline where they were there. Because in a timeline where there were no timetravellers in 2012 Battle of New York, Endgame never happened as we saw it and that would have made it the timeline not in line with Kang's plan, thus it got pruned.
So yea, the Clint we see in Hawkeye must be part of the timeline where the timetravellers were in the Battle of New York, no matter if their timetravelling created a branch or not, because Kang.
As you said, up to Endgame, there's no actual timetravel-'rules' applying, no matter if they make sense or someone in-universe explained them, because everything happens the way Kang wants it to.

[qwerty123456]

I think people are having a problem understanding that the Sacred Timeline isn't the "real" timeline/reality. It's an artificial grouping of timelines/realities to make sure no Kang variants pop up so as long as a timeline leads to He who remains and not Kang anything goes.

[Kathandira]

Watched Eternals this weekend. Not a bad movie. I like that it sets up a lot of possibilities for future Space oriented marvel movies.

A couple things that stood out as silly though.

Makkari being deaf/mute. This was not necessary, and really felt shoehorned for the sake of inclusiveness. Not a big deal, but silly all the same.

Sprite's desires....Sprite could have easily lived the life they wanted with the use of their own powers. Quite silly.

And the biggest silly thing. The size difference between the Celestials. I guess they grow? Because the one that is seen towards the end of the movie is WAY smaller than the others.

Outside of a handful of silly things that stood out to me, it was a good flick.

[Egomaniac]

Sprite's desires....Sprite could have easily lived the life they wanted with the use of their own powers. Quite silly.

I'm not really seeing how that's possible. Being forever stuck in the body of a 12 year old causes certain difficulties. Even using illusions to appear older only goes so far.

[Syegfryed]

Well tht explain what would happen after no-way-home, another trilogy of spider-man, this not counting group movies i assume, like i dunno, avengers 7?

They also teased miles and venom, things are looking good.

I'm not really seeing how that's possible. Being forever stuck in the body of a 12 year old causes certain difficulties. Even using illusions to appear older only goes so far.

in some places, or with some people, her age would not make much difference, lets be real.

[Egomaniac]

in some places, or with some people, her age would not make much difference, lets be real.

I don't need to hear about your personal fetishes.

[Ausr]

I don't need to hear about your personal fetishes.

Yeah, that turned very weird real quick.

[Syegfryed]

I don't need to hear about your personal fetishes.

very offensive of you to assume this is about me, when there is countries that allow people with like 16 or 14 year to marry, and even before that,

that answer a lot of things about your persona.

[Syegfryed]

The fact that you said someone who looks 12 should go live their life in those places says more about yours.

i just said the possibility exist, never said anyone should do anything, once again you making a strawman out of this

[Egomaniac]

i just said the possibility exist, never said anyone should do anything, once again you making a strawman out of this

You made it weird dude... just own it and move on.

[Syegfryed]

You made it weird dude... just own it and move on.

is a matter off act that age never stop some people, depending on culture, laws or other factors, but you had to turn on me basically saying im a pedophile, well i guess your username checks out. I would get a infraction for less

[Egomaniac]

is a matter off act that age never stop some people, depending on culture, laws or other factors, but you had to turn on me basically saying im a pedophile, well i guess your username checks out. I would get a infraction for less

Dude this is the exchange that went down. You turned it into a pedo thing.

Sprite's desires....Sprite could have easily lived the life they wanted with the use of their own powers. Quite silly.

I'm not really seeing how that's possible. Being forever stuck in the body of a 12 year old causes certain difficulties. Even using illusions to appear older only goes so far.

in some places, or with some people, her age would not make much difference, lets be real.

Just gross man.

[Ausr]

Dude this is the exchange that went down. You turned it into a pedo thing.







Just gross man.

Yeah. There's certain topics where you know you fucked up and should back away with an apology. He should be doing that.

[SavoirFaire]

Yeah. There's certain topics where you know you fucked up and should back away with an apology. He should be doing that.

Nah it was bait to continue a pointless argument. It’s like a Godwin’s law type thing for MMO-C threads.

[Immitis]

Thanos didn't jump universes. It's Thanos from the past of that same universe. There is no "leaving his timeline to come to a different timeline; he's from a different point on the same timeline.



I really don't care what the directors think. I care what the writers think, and how it fits with the rest of the canon. The directors are just wrong; Steve Rogers didn't go to a different timeline. That may have been uncertain before Loki, but it's clear after Loki.



There was one Sacred Timeline, and no other timelines. That's an established fact, as of the Loki TV show. That's different after the events of that show, but covers everything that went beforehand in the MCU.

The time travel in Endgame did not deviate anything away from that Sacred Timeline, nor did Steve staying behind in the past. That's all part of the Sacred Timeline.


Edit: Also, before you ask "how can Thanos die twice if there's only one Thanos", welcome to recursion. There's a brief split in the timeline but both branches dive back in to the Sacred Timeline, and don't qualify as separate timelines proper. It's only a "branch" if the events lead to a divergence. This particular split doesn't, as both are critical and necessary points in the same timeline. Timelines aren't single unchanging paths, not when time travel exists.

i thought it was implied there was still a multiverse just they were actually pruning ones different enough for a new kang

[Lanrefni]

Nah, the multiverse is shown exploding at the end of Loki when the branches start forming from the sacred timeline. Up until that point it was a single timeloop.

Hawkeye ep 3 was pretty good. I wonder who the Fat Man is… maybe Echo’s “uncle”?

I'm really hoping for a surprise D'Onofrio as Fisk appearance.

[formerShandalay]

Nah, the multiverse is shown exploding at the end of Loki when the branches start forming from the sacred timeline. Up until that point it was a single timeloop.

Hawkeye ep 3 was pretty good. I wonder who the Fat Man is… maybe Echo’s “uncle”?

I think they made such a secret out of 'Uncle' and only showed his hand, it's going to be Kingpin and the chuckle sounded like D'Onofrio. I mean, I might again be wishing too hard, but it kind of seems to be leading up to him.


On the other hand, I could imagine Kate's father actually being alive and pulling the strings secretly, which is why they show Echo acting on her own, without the 'Uncle' knowing about it. Kate's words about her father being such a philantropist and only ever looking to help people kind of seemed.... like a foreshadowing to a rude awakening. Her hero-worship for her father and Hawkeye is going to get thoroughly destroyed. And her view of her mother too, probably.

[Syegfryed]

I'm really hoping for a surprise D'Onofrio as Fisk appearance.

rumors says he will appear at the post-credit for episode 4.

and will appear in episode 5 and 6 as well, that, will coincide with spider-man movie that will introduce us Daredevil

[formerShandalay]

In the latest Hawkeye episode the scene of Clint and Kate riding on the subway and talking "to" each other about the same stuff with Clint not actually hearing anything reminded me of "Ghostdog". There's a scene just like that in that movie, just not with someone who is deaf, but they don't speak the same language, having a "conversation" about the same topics and seemingly answering each other without actually understanding what the other is saying. I don't know if that was deliberate, but the movie is about a hitman trying to stick to a Samurai Code, so maybe?